With an eye to the past I look try to divine the future.

[Arachnofiend]

Enlightened seem to be really good when combined with Diabolic Strength, Prescience, and Mutalith buff. You can do enough damage to wipe Mortarion, especially if you proc Cycle of Slaughter, with auto-wound on 4+, -2 Rend, 2 damage. 9 Enlightened with 27 attacks, making it 54 with Cycle, 27 auto-wound at 2 damage. Pretty potent.

Diabolic Strength targets a moooooodel

 

You cannot use it to buff an entire uuuuuunit

 

So many people make this mistaaaaake

[Sonoftherubric21]

 

Enlightened seem to be really good when combined with Diabolic Strength, Prescience, and Mutalith buff. You can do enough damage to wipe Mortarion, especially if you proc Cycle of Slaughter, with auto-wound on 4+, -2 Rend, 2 damage. 9 Enlightened with 27 attacks, making it 54 with Cycle, 27 auto-wound at 2 damage. Pretty potent.

Diabolic Strength targets a moooooodel

 

You cannot use it to buff an entire uuuuuunit

 

So many people make this mistaaaaake

 

 

True! but id still say on an Exalted Sorcerer its pretty beastly. Str 6 sword or str 10 sword against Pysker LD9 units, 

[Zodd1888]

 

 

Enlightened seem to be really good when combined with Diabolic Strength, Prescience, and Mutalith buff. You can do enough damage to wipe Mortarion, especially if you proc Cycle of Slaughter, with auto-wound on 4+, -2 Rend, 2 damage. 9 Enlightened with 27 attacks, making it 54 with Cycle, 27 auto-wound at 2 damage. Pretty potent.

Diabolic Strength targets a moooooodel

 

You cannot use it to buff an entire uuuuuunit

 

So many people make this mistaaaaake

Oh no! Diminished. Need to find new combo... Cycle still makes the kill possible. I've wondered why I have never used it on anything but my DP lol

[Arachnofiend]

 

 

Enlightened seem to be really good when combined with Diabolic Strength, Prescience, and Mutalith buff. You can do enough damage to wipe Mortarion, especially if you proc Cycle of Slaughter, with auto-wound on 4+, -2 Rend, 2 damage. 9 Enlightened with 27 attacks, making it 54 with Cycle, 27 auto-wound at 2 damage. Pretty potent.

Diabolic Strength targets a moooooodel

 

You cannot use it to buff an entire uuuuuunit

 

So many people make this mistaaaaake

 

 

True! but id still say on an Exalted Sorcerer its pretty beastly. Str 6 sword or str 10 sword against Pysker LD9 units, 

 

Oh for sure, Diabolic Strength is still a great spell! You just use it on an HQ like the sword exalted or a daemon prince, or a big beasty like the maulerfiend.

[Sonoftherubric21]

 

 

Enlightened seem to be really good when combined with Diabolic Strength, Prescience, and Mutalith buff. You can do enough damage to wipe Mortarion, especially if you proc Cycle of Slaughter, with auto-wound on 4+, -2 Rend, 2 damage. 9 Enlightened with 27 attacks, making it 54 with Cycle, 27 auto-wound at 2 damage. Pretty potent.

Diabolic Strength targets a moooooodel

 

You cannot use it to buff an entire uuuuuunit

 

So many people make this mistaaaaake

Oh no! Diminished. Need to find new combo... Cycle still makes the kill possible. I've wondered why I have never used it on anything but my DP lol

 

 

funny enough I HAVE actually put Diabloic Strength on my Tzaangor unit leaders a couple of times, STr 6 swings, ap-1, 4 attacks. I had so many casts, and only one unit hitting into combat I figured "why not?" worked out fairly well when I did it. lol. 

[Skerr]

I plan on getting 3 boxes of enlightened, kitting 2 with bows and 1 with spears for flexibility. Thanks Raven for the R&D on the magnet options, I think I will pass. I figured they would be difficult based on the tzangoor kit.

 

Do enlightened also get the bonus to hit characters because of "pretty, sparkly, shinies"?

[Raven1]

@Skerr, im sure someone could figure it out but it was a real pain and the bows are the obvious general ourpose choice i gave up.

 

I saw this over on DakkaDakka and it looks promising. Spend 2 CPs on a fireraptor with two quad heavy bolters. That's a lot of S5 AP-2 shooting. 24 shots if I'm not mistaken. Not like we need more anti-infantry fire but deadly non the less.

[HeresyBeliever]

Can anyone confirm the points for Ahriman on disc and exalted sorcerer on disc for me?

[Arachnofiend]

@Skerr, im sure someone could figure it out but it was a real pain and the bows are the obvious general ourpose choice i gave up.

 

I saw this over on DakkaDakka and it looks promising. Spend 2 CPs on a fireraptor with two quad heavy bolters. That's a lot of S5 AP-2 shooting. 24 shots if I'm not mistaken. Not like we need more anti-infantry fire but deadly non the less.

I'm pretty sure this doesn't work, the Inferno Bolts stratagem has a specific list (it doesn't say "any gun with bolt in the name" or whatever) that the quad heavy bolter isn't on.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Can anyone confirm the points for Ahriman on disc and exalted sorcerer on disc for me?

 

Ahriman is still 166. 

 

Exalted (on disc) are 132 If I recall correctly + Gear, So the disc-exalted are now 141. 8 for stave, 1 for inferno pistol if you want cheapest option. A substantial discount. 

 

Pretty great IMO, and theres enough of a gap between Daemon Princes and Exalted Sorcerers where there is definitely a choice.  40 points to make a daemon prince, and only 20 points between the on foot exalted (121, same as previous but got the aura buff), and Disc exalted. So we have a nice variety in effective HQ's with similar ability. 

 

Its a heck of a debate.  Ahriman is still and forever will be that incredibly point effective HQ he has been since 8th started, but now we have a reason to not take him (relics and customization of warlord as well as decent gun options for exalted) 

[HeresyBeliever]

Ahriman is still 166.

 

Exalted (on disc) are 132 If I recall correctly + Gear, So the disc-exalted are now 141. 8 for stave, 1 for inferno pistol if you want cheapest option. A substantial discount.

 

Pretty great IMO, and theres enough of a gap between Daemon Princes and Exalted Sorcerers where there is definitely a choice. 40 points to make a daemon prince, and only 20 points between the on foot exalted (121, same as previous but got the aura buff), and Disc exalted. So we have a nice variety in effective HQ's with similar ability.

 

Its a heck of a debate. Ahriman is still and forever will be that incredibly point effective HQ he has been since 8th started, but now we have a reason to not take him (relics and customization of warlord as well as decent gun options for exalted)

I was looking to do a supreme command detachment of Ahriman, 2 x exalted sorcerers and Magnus as a physic support to my alpha legion.

 

They can fly around with Magnus buffing him and casting MW spells on people. While being fairly meaty in CC if required

[Skerr]

The hq slot seems an emarrassment of riches with so many options.

[Arachnofiend]

A couple lists I'm considering testing out when the codex arrives... I think I might actually like the second one without Magnus better, but I dunno. The more I think about it I think Enlightened have more synergy with the Scarab Occult than they do with regular foot Tzaangors since you can seriously overload the enemy on 2 wound targets. They have to run out of plasma eventually, right? One thing I'm wondering is if I should replace the Exalted Sorcerer (largely just there so I can turn his sword into Seer's Bane in match ups where I'd want it) with a Mutalith.

[Sonoftherubric21]

The hq slot seems an emarrassment of riches with so many options.

 

As it should be; Our HQs aren't just scrub librarians. They are the big bads from Prospero   "Sorcerer's Supreme" and all that. heh. 

 

I agree though its so much its almost overwhelming; every single one of the options is good now. budget Sorcerer for obvious reasons, Terminator sorcerers got a nice little buff in that they can not only deepstrike, came down in points (matching CSM) AND have access to the familiar for some of those all important spell tosses. 

 

Exalted on foot became excellent with the aura that finally effects everything, exalted on disc not only shot down in points but also have utility with either being a buff-bot, or being a very competent Melee combatant (especially if Warlord) not to mention a heck of a force multiplier. 

 

And Daemon princes....well they are Daemon princes, they are great in every book but ours for being the same point cost look almost Over the Top in how much utility they provide while still having great combat prowess.  I mean...our Princes are (..well were?) in fact Sorcerers, so they should have great casting. 

[Skerr]

I think you'll get more mileage out of list 2 though they both look fun.  The more mind cannons in list 2 seem like it will open up more options.  I am looking at a similar list though want to work in a vortex beast.

[Panzer]

 

The hq slot seems an emarrassment of riches with so many options.

 

As it should be; Our HQs aren't just scrub librarians. They are the big bads from Prospero   "Sorcerer's Supreme" and all that. heh. 

 

I agree though its so much its almost overwhelming; every single one of the options is good now. budget Sorcerer for obvious reasons, Terminator sorcerers got a nice little buff in that they can not only deepstrike, came down in points (matching CSM) AND have access to the familiar for some of those all important spell tosses. 

 

Exalted on foot became excellent with the aura that finally effects everything, exalted on disc not only shot down in points but also have utility with either being a buff-bot, or being a very competent Melee combatant (especially if Warlord) not to mention a heck of a force multiplier. 

 

And Daemon princes....well they are Daemon princes, they are great in every book but ours for being the same point cost look almost Over the Top in how much utility they provide while still having great combat prowess.  I mean...our Princes are (..well were?) in fact Sorcerers, so they should have great casting. 

 

To be fair, other Marine Librarians aren't scrubs either. The scrub ones don't get send into battle usually. ;)

[Zodd1888]

That's a hard call. One Mutalith to buff Speargors and your Scarab blob would aid to wound (I assume + to strength), but I think that'll be the bullet magnet on that list.

[Skerr]

In an SOT heavy list a vortex beast could be great support being able to dish out MW's, buff str, reroll charge, reduce leadership... those are a great mix of tricks to pick from each round if you can keep it alive.

 

At 7 point a model tzangoors still make great screens to get your beast up to MW everyone in 9", get your SOTs into position and shoot, buff a unit and charge enemy line before blowing up.    It might be a priority target but a DP throwing off Infernal Gateway in the middle of your enemies line and maybe webway some tzangoors in while you Doombolt and MW up the board.  That with cover might keep the Vortex alive a round or 2.

 

 

Here is what I got so far, I believe this is just under 2000 pts, no significant upgrades outside relics

 

Battalion detachment CP: 3

Deamon Prince w wings; Dark Matter Crystal

Exalted Sorc on disc (Seers Bane possibility)

10 Tzangoors x3 w Tzangoor blades

Shaman 

 

Vanguard detachment  CP:1

Ahriman on disc

5 SOTs with SR and HF x3

Vortex Beast

 

Outrider detachment CP:1

Exalted Sorcerer on disc: Helm of the Third Eye

6 Enlightened w Bows

2 Chaos Spawn

1 Chaos Spawn

 

Battle Forged CP 3

 

8 CPs  before relics, 8 spell slingers and beast shenanigans!

[Panzer]

I honestly feel like one Vortex beast won't be enough and two too expensive. I'm looking forward to see how reality will work out.

[Khalan]

You'll probably get way more mileage out of a ML/las hellbrute tbh. More wounds and longer range.

[FirstSonofHorus]

Wait what is the distinction between the Terminator Librarian and the Exalted Sorcerors? What are their auras? Is it still the invulnerable save reroll for Exalteds?

[Sonoftherubric21]

Wait what is the distinction between the Terminator Librarian and the Exalted Sorcerors? What are their auras? Is it still the invulnerable save reroll for Exalteds?

 

Same wound value, exalted have auras, the termie sorcerer does not have an aura.

 

However he has a Spell Familiar where the exalted does not, +1 to cast his first spell in the phase. 

 

Termie sorcerer has natural Deepstrike, same wound stat as the exalted (termie armor +1 wound), exalted has 3+/5++ save, Terminator armor gives the sorcerer 2+/5++ save. 

[Panzer]

So basically the Termi sorcerer is more the solo guy who is pretty independent and has a buff for his own rather than an aura while the exalted is more of a support character.

[Sonoftherubric21]

So basically the Termi sorcerer is more the solo guy who is pretty independent and has a buff for his own rather than an aura while the exalted is more of a support character.

 

Their casting is identical as far as "known spells and casting potential" except the first spell +1 to cast. 

 

but the exalted has more buff potential (innate aura) and more combat potential. (more attacks, hits better, and disc for flight) 

 

The way I got around this issue; Why not Both??? 

 

With the new book I will often take a termie sorcerer but also 1-2 exalted depending. Some lists I want to run include up to 3 Exalted. (2 on disc, 1 on foot) I REALLY love the exalted now for their price point, quite good.  The Budget sorcerer wont see much playtime anymore IMHO based off the info we have now.  A budget sorcerer comes in at around 95 points, I beleive "with" an axe they are.... 98? just shy of 100? 

 

Well an Exalted at 121 (assuming on foot) has same caster potential, extra wound, Extra attack, innate invul save, better Ws and Bs, as well as an innate aura......for 20 points? Hell yeah. AND the aura now effects *all* models, so the foot sorcerers have a job to help foot sloggers, daemon engines, and tanks in the backfield, abusing the hell out of our +6 to cast distance, and aint slouches in CC (though locked to saves barring Seers bane is ANNOYING!) 

 

Overall i dig em, but Princes are another debate as well given how good ours are. 

[Skerr]

Do reg Sorcerers get any aura at all or are they like termies with no aura?.  It was difficult for me tell while watching one of the video's that mentioned it.