OnboardG1 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 The tactical auto-requilary has one of the funniest descriptions of a relic that I've seen so far. I get the image of Captain Blackadder trying to order something sensible while a Servo Skull with Melchett's voice overrides him with something stupid instead. HenricusTyranicus, CoffeeGrunt, BassWave and 2 others 5 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micahwc Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Anyone notice priests can't take evicerators or plasma guns in this codex? They were one of the only sources of plasma for battle sisters. Can you still take a priest from the index if you wanted to? Seems odd to me because there are models of priests with evicerators and plasma guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrowmaster Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 You can still use the one from the index, just use the points from the codex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beams Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 I believe gw said somewhere that the codices only contain units that have specific models, where the indexes contain everything up to that point, and that you can use entries or wargear in the indexes if they don't have a entry in the codex, provided you use the most up to date point costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halfpint100 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Anyone notice priests can't take evicerators or plasma guns in this codex? They were one of the only sources of plasma for battle sisters. Can you still take a priest from the index if you wanted to? Seems odd to me because there are models of priests with evicerators and plasma guns. Pretty sure you can't for guard, same with dreadnoughts. can no longer use the twin autocannon arms, unless you take the mortis dread from the FW index. For sisters, you can still use the index ones i would think. but for guard, we have to use the ones in our dex. librisrouge 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasmablasts Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Anyone notice priests can't take evicerators or plasma guns in this codex? They were one of the only sources of plasma for battle sisters. Can you still take a priest from the index if you wanted to? Seems odd to me because there are models of priests with evicerators and plasma guns. Pretty sure you can't for guard, same with dreadnoughts. can no longer use the twin autocannon arms, unless you take the mortis dread from the FW index. For sisters, you can still use the index ones i would think. but for guard, we have to use the ones in our dex. I'm pretty sure that GW has specifically used Dreadnoughts with "lost" weapon options as ones you can still take from the Index. cielaq 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardsman Bob Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Anyone notice priests can't take evicerators or plasma guns in this codex? They were one of the only sources of plasma for battle sisters. Can you still take a priest from the index if you wanted to? Seems odd to me because there are models of priests with evicerators and plasma guns. Most certainly! I kit-bashed and green-stuff-modeled two priests with both of those weapons years ago. Suffice to say I had to pull a couple Redemptionists with autoguns from storage to take their place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tirak Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 So would this apply to Power Mauls and Power Axes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrowmaster Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 You can still use them with the points from the index because they're the most recent walter h 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NatBrannigan Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 This stripping of options seemingly at random is getting silly now... People do like mixing kits you know, and it's hardly a complete mind bender for new players! Now models you can still buy aren't usable? Now that is a mindbender... I'd be most upset if I was a new player starting today, bought a Priest with Plasma gun only to find I wasn't allowed to use it, unless I had an out of date book for some reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feral_80 Posted October 13, 2017 Author Share Posted October 13, 2017 As much as I pity the loss of mauls and axes and think the removal of some options was unnecessary and badly implemented, going back to the index when it's more convenient does NOT sound very nice, nor particularly good sportsmanship. It's ok with Rough Riders because they are not in the codex, but saying 'ah this Lord Commissar actually comes from the index, where it is identical but has better options. But the rest of my units come from the codex, because they are just better' is a very different thing that simply smells like waac. Also, using an index entry when the same entry is available in the codex is openly mentioned by the GW official GT rules: although it is not an open prohibition, the tone of that 'we expect you to use the most current datasheet' is a very clear statement nonetheless. Come on people, stop always trying to lift stones to get that 1% extra power. The codex is great, we can live without a couple of options and still have much more fun than in any previous edition - learn to understand when enough is enough. Silas7 and Imperator Deus 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrowmaster Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Many people, myself included have converted models with weapons disallowed by the codex, I hardly think it's fair to accuse us of powergaming for wanting to use them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feral_80 Posted October 13, 2017 Author Share Posted October 13, 2017 I have converted models as well. Those power mauls will count as power swords, I can live with that. Taking such minor detail from the index might be a minor issue, but the kind of attitude - and its perception by an opponent - is simply the one I stated, like it or not. I prefer to stick to the rules since they are valid for everybody, even if my toys say otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 I converted SWS with Demo Charges. What do they count as now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feral_80 Posted October 13, 2017 Author Share Posted October 13, 2017 Your choice - I use mine as normal troopers in sws or as count-as meltas. Demo charges sucked in the index already, so I would not have used them as such anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyr13 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Not using the index for options would completely cripple my Iron Hands. About a third of my units has loadouts that arent available in the codex any more. As such, people thinking that using Index options is powergaming is seriously annoying. Halfpint100, olcottr, Beams and 2 others 5 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NatBrannigan Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Especially when the weapons you want to use in question, like the Demo charges, are actually much worse than other options available. I like my slightly crazed looking special weapons team (Berets instead of pith helmets, 2 flamers and a demo charge) because they add a little variety to my troops. I'll probably just make another with a flamer and drop the Demo charge but it's a shame... All my guard officers have swords, because that's what a good Praetorian officer should have, but I've seen some great conversion for other regiments to give mauls and axes. It's a slight shame you have to dip into the index now to use them WYSIWYG. Guard escaped lightly compared to Marines though as far as lost option goes... I really don't see the need for the cull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchverr Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 I could be wrong, but didnt they say the codex would be for models with rules? Models GW make do not have those extra options anymore and thus, the rules wouldnt be in it (part of their "make it easy" system, nobody needs to convert etc just buy direct). Personally I would be fine fighting people whom used the index to return weapons that should be there but thats me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feral_80 Posted October 13, 2017 Author Share Posted October 13, 2017 (edited) The need derives from the fact that we know (or should know) where this attitude will lead the game, i.e. nowhere good at all. The (late) 7th edition was so bloated that there were multiple ways of fielding the same unit(s), or units with identical names, from various sources, which only led to an incredible amount of confusion and abuse. This index/codex duplication is just as stupid, and GW should have avoided encouraging it. 8th ed. was supposed to be the one-book edition for all armies - well apparently it won't, and reasonable players should do what they can to avoid contributing to overloading it with confusion (not that the 3 FAQs we have at the moment help - but hey, GW). This is possibly one of the worst managed aspects of the 8th edition so far, and it just goes in the wrong direction - index were ad interim and ideally should have been made obsolete by the codexes, period. If we want to avoid confusion and unnecessary rule-lawyering, there should be *one and only one* source of rules and datasheets. I *do not* consider it a sane thing to have 2+ versions of the same unit around, even if none is necessarily broken. A new law is not supposed to be an alternative to an old law: it replaces it, simple as that. This is how good rulesets work. I understand the concern of people who find some models impossible to play now: welcome to WH40k, this has happened in each and every passage to a new edition, in case you don't remember it. It is appreciable that GW now is trying to offer a way to mitigate it, and it would work for datasheets that are missing from the codexes. But in the case of doublets, its implications are *bad* for the game. Even when it is a purely cosmetic and harmless choice, as you consider it in your case, it is still *bad* because it creates a precedent. Do whatever you want. Perhaps you'll change your mind the first time players who use a different army will exploit this possibility to field an un-nerfed version of a datasheet, or exploit a loop-hole allowed by an older formulation of a unit rule, or who knows what else. I can see this coming very clearly and very soon, knowing both GW and the way a good part of the player base approaches the game. Edited October 13, 2017 by Feral_80 Imperator Deus 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrowmaster Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 I could be wrong, but didnt they say the codex would be for models with rules? Models GW make do not have those extra options anymore and thus, the rules wouldnt be in it (part of their "make it easy" system, nobody needs to convert etc just buy direct). Personally I would be fine fighting people whom used the index to return weapons that should be there but thats me. They did say the codex would be for current models but strangely gave vets the oprion for autoguns (which don't come in any IG kit) but dropped plasma and eviscerators on priests (which do have models) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NatBrannigan Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 It's all very jumbled. As far as I remember GW said you can use the Index for units / options that are not in the codex. That's fine and I don't think open to abuse, if a little potentially confusing. So 50 man conscript units from the Index you can't use, because there is a Conscript option in the codex. Cheaper Plasma guns from the Index you can't use, because there is a Plasma Gun option in the codex. Rough Riders from the index you CAN use because there is no Rough Rider option in the codex. Power Axes on characters from the index you CAN use because there is no option in the codex. So you shouldn't be able to use an older book to avoid Nerfs, and I think this approach at least stops potential abuse. In any case I really don't think a Platoon commander swinging a power axe instead of a sword is going to be a game changer at all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beams Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Basically, indexes and assumably chapter approved (with their design a landraider) will be for more esoteric models, and the codices are what you can buy on a shelf. I don't see a problem with that. Almost all of us allow forgeworld. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feral_80 Posted October 13, 2017 Author Share Posted October 13, 2017 Exactly, it's jumbled. And confusion leads to loopholes, rule ambiguities, and venturesome attempts to abuse them. Equipping a Platoon commander with a power axe is certainly no game-changing. Just as NOT equipping him with a power axe. The no small difference between the two is that the former opens the way to new ways to abuse the game in future, potentially more severe instances, while the latter does not. I know which road we are pursuing in my gaming group at least. I can only hope that GW changes her mind and rules this differently, and as soon as possible. Imperator Deus 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micahwc Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 So if we use the "latest datasheets" do earthshaker batteries from Forgeworld get the updated AP -3 from the Astra Militarum Codex and do Vulture Gunships get the Assault multiple rocket pods from the Astra Militarum codex? Asking for my renegade friends... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchverr Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 So if we use the "latest datasheets" do earthshaker batteries from Forgeworld get the updated AP -3 from the Astra Militarum Codex and do Vulture Gunships get the Assault multiple rocket pods from the Astra Militarum codex? Asking for my renegade friends... to copy fw answer for dkk stuff, decide within your group how you role it. I would say you can because it will be FAQed at some point myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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