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Devastation of Baal - Guy Haley - Discussion/Spoilers

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Sun Reaver Battle-Brother

Sun Reaver

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Eh I don't see that "adjusting" part being any hint of something like that. It also just means learning the way a Chapter is organized, learning which Captain acts which way and why Blood Angels think of regular humans so highly while other Chapters don't, their humility, that they are doing tons of art and for what purpose etc. etc.

It doesn't automatically mean "welcome to the Blood Angels, here's your Jump Pack, here is your fancy armor and here's your sword. Go and hit things!" After all Blood Angels have a ton of Tacticals, Devastators, Sternguards, Scouts etc. as well. We are NOT a purely melee based chapter. It just comes naturally with our instincts and how strong those are represented in Primaris is yet to be seen...and even then they would take over non-melee roles like Intercessor, Aggressor, Inceptor (which work more like Crisis Suits than Deathcompany) or Reiver since it's just tactically better to have those elements as well instead of being an all-out melee army. :wink:

 

Also about the bigger and stronger....so you mean all Marines should be melee units since they are bigger and stronger than Guardsmen? :biggrin.:

No, but the teachings of our Chapter revolve around the Flaw, both embracing and resisting the Red Thirst, which certainly impacts how the Blood Angels act in battle. Less "we love hitting things. Grab a chainsword, strap on a jump pack, and show those World Eaters just what Rip and Tear really is", and more "the Red Thirst is a burden on all our souls. Use its urges to strengthen your arm, but take care not to fall too far into its embrace. It is in the whirlwind of furious melee where we can anoint ourselves in bloody libation, to ease the pull upon our souls. Remember though to always act as the Angel did. We embrace our darkness not for its own sake, but to further the light. It would consume you if it could."

 

Exactly. And for that teaching you don't need any unique unit. BA Tacticals & Co did just fine so far with their Red Thirst.

 

 

 

I would agree that just because BA and their successors suffer from the Red Thirst, it doesn't mean we should have unique Primaris marines. BA have been fighting the thirst off for a millennia and in fact, newer marines are sent to the Devastators and Assault squads to master the thirst before being placed into Tactical Squads. Additionally, Cawl told RG that the SW and BA mutations are within 'acceptable' levels. 

 

Therefore, I don't see the Primaris having an issue nor making specialized units - for now at least. They've been fighting by RG's side for over 100 years and no incidents were recorded. I don't see the issues coming up now either. 

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Panzer Veteran

Panzer

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They may wear Red Armor but I bet they have RG brand on their arse.:laugh.:

That's why we're going to make our own Primaris as soon as possible. :D

Too bad that most or even all of the civilisations on Baal and her moons are probably gone now after the Tyranid invasion. The BA might have saved a lot humans in their fortress but everything the humans have build up in their past is surely gone now.

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Panzer Veteran

Panzer

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I couldn't power read even if I wanted to. No time and getting distracted too easily ever since I started spending my time on the internet. The times when I read 1000 page novels in one go one after another are long gone. :biggrin.:

Edited by sfPanzer
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Crimson Ghost IX Battle-Brother

Crimson Ghost IX

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Any summaries or spoilers welcome for sure. =)

 

Looks like no audiobook for this one, so I will prolly wait until holiday break to physically read it.

Although I might be too busy making armies with the new dex and wait until spring or something then.  Hmmmm =)

 

Maybe I will just say F it and buy it now and get thru it when I can.

Excited to see what goes down for sure.

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Pendent Battle-Brother

Pendent

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I'm weak and am looking at the end because there's some stuff I'm really curious about.

 

The Primaris marines do appear to be completely free of both the Red Thirst and the Black Rage- Gabriel Seth is very unhappy about this and about Guilliman.

Most of the main characters seem to have survived. Dante, Corbulo, Mephiston and Astorath are mentioned explicitly, as are captains Borgio, Karlen, Aphael, Phaeton, Machhiavai and Sendini. Dante thinks roughly 300 of the Blood Angels chapter survive overall. The successors fare even worse- 8 or 9 are wiped out entirely, with many others having only a handful of survivors.

A single Sanguinary Guard survives, named Caraeus. It's mentioned that he will become the Exalted Herald of Sanguinius. New unit for the codex?

It takes Guilliman about 70 years to reach Baal with his crusade, meaning the Blood Angels lost quite a bit of time due to that warp storm.

Dante is named as the Warden of Imperium Nihulus, commander of the Imperium north of the Great Rift.
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Panzer Veteran

Panzer

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I'm weak and am looking at the end because there's some stuff I'm really curious about.

 

The Primaris marines do appear to be completely free of both the Red Thirst and the Black Rage- Gabriel Seth is very unhappy about this and about Guilliman.

 

Most of the main characters seem to have survived. Dante, Corbulo, Mephiston and Astorath are mentioned explicitly, as are captains Borgio, Karlen, Aphael, Phaeton, Machhiavai and Sendini. Dante thinks roughly 300 of the Blood Angels chapter survive overall. The successors fare even worse- 8 or 9 are wiped out entirely, with many others having only a handful of survivors.

 

A single Sanguinary Guard survives, named Caraeus. It's mentioned that he will become the Exalted Herald of Sanguinius. New unit for the codex?

 

It takes Guilliman about 70 years to reach Baal with his crusade, meaning the Blood Angels lost quite a bit of time due to that warp storm.

 

Dante is named as the Warden of Imperium Nihulus, commander of the Imperium north of the Great Rift.

It was never this hard for me to decide whether I want to click on the spoiler tag or not...

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Frater Cornelius Venerable Brother

Frater Cornelius

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Dante being Commander of Imperium Nihilus is cool.

However, the destruction of a big part of successor Chapters and Primaris being free of the classic BA flaws is bad (we also know that SW flaws are also fixed in Primaris). Bad in a sense that GW might just homonogize the Primaris line, much like Stormcasts have no differences between Stormhosts in terms of models, and the origin is nothing but a legacy. All will be the same, presumably under Guilliman, and Chspter selection will not matter. Unique Chapters will remain with the classic line and the way onwards will be a generic Marine line without personality. Dark thoughts indeed. Not sure how to take it... I also hope I am wrong, but this is the vibe I am getting. Why remove part of what makes a Chapter unique?
Edited by Frater Cornelius
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Leonaides Venerable Brother

Leonaides

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Just spitballing but a personal theory of mine was always that the rage was also linked to/harder to resist for the marines whos organs were cultured from the material removed from sang's dead body after horus killed him. Old fluff had it that the chapters genebanks were destroyed during the siege so they had to get new material from his corpse to create new marines. What if cawl got hold of some of the original geneseed from prior to his death to create the new ba's so they are less affected but still feel it?
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Frater Cornelius Venerable Brother

Frater Cornelius

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Let's not jump to conclusions. It's not the first time the Mechanicus thought they fixed the curse and especially the Black Rage isn't something that should be able to get fixed on a genetic level as long as their geneseed is truly Blood Angel.

That is fair. BA have the Thirst, but that's not who they are. The legacy of sacrifice will live on. Maybe I worry too much, but I really care for the different Chapters and I don't want them to die off because GW want more money :/

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sockwithaticket Veteran

sockwithaticket

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I'm weak and am looking at the end because there's some stuff I'm really curious about.

 

The Primaris marines do appear to be completely free of both the Red Thirst and the Black Rage- Gabriel Seth is very unhappy about this and about Guilliman.

 

Most of the main characters seem to have survived. Dante, Corbulo, Mephiston and Astorath are mentioned explicitly, as are captains Borgio, Karlen, Aphael, Phaeton, Machhiavai and Sendini. Dante thinks roughly 300 of the Blood Angels chapter survive overall. The successors fare even worse- 8 or 9 are wiped out entirely, with many others having only a handful of survivors.

 

A single Sanguinary Guard survives, named Caraeus. It's mentioned that he will become the Exalted Herald of Sanguinius. New unit for the codex?

 

It takes Guilliman about 70 years to reach Baal with his crusade, meaning the Blood Angels lost quite a bit of time due to that warp storm.

 

Dante is named as the Warden of Imperium Nihulus, commander of the Imperium north of the Great Rift.

That would explain why all of a sudden there are 20+ successors, can kill a few off with minimal repurcussions. Does it mention which ones were lost? Obviousky we've heard Knights of Blood
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Frater Antodeniel Veteran

Frater Antodeniel

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Interresting questions that would not spoil a lot/anything about the book :

 

- Name and Chapter of the five dead chapter master.

- Names of some previously unmentionned successors chapter.

- Name of the fleet-based chapters, if mentioned.

- Look/Color scheme of some less known successors.

 

As for the story in itself, i will be waiting for my physical copy. =)

 

On the spoiler side of thing :

 

 

Blood Angels Primaris free of the Red Thirst ? I believed that Cawl mentioned in Dark Imperium that he could do it, but didn't apply it to Primaris since the flaw (red thirst) was part of the Emperor work. As for the Black Rage, it is a psychic flaw, the echo of Sanguinius Death that resonated in all Blood Angels through the warp (space and time). "Correct me if my memory is wrong about those parts".

 

Also, No Black Rage = No Death Company...

 

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