New codex coming this year...

[Frater Cornelius]

@ Karhedronuk - Many Marine players are displeased with C:SM and GK are not pleased with theirs. The rest was fine from what I heard. Chances are thus pretty good that other SM books will blow.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Not intending to be sharp or dismissive, but I gotta say, I just hate that FLG is in anyway involved with BA... I've said why before so I won't repeat it, but that's what has soured my excitement level more than anything.

 

I'm sure we'll be competitive, hopefully not "too competitive" where suddenly BA are the new netlist pariah seen everywhere. I've been there, in 3rd edition (before TAR), it was like Eldar in 7th - people just hated you and discredited your personal devotion because you have the flavor of the month army. Don't want that again for sure...

 

But I'm fully confident that GW won't let us be stuck on the bottom at least. I also have a good strong feeling on some new models for the old characters... don't ask why I just do.

[Panzer]

 

I'm sure we'll be competitive, hopefully not "too competitive" where suddenly BA are the new netlist pariah seen everywhere. I've been there, in 3rd edition (before TAR), it was like Eldar in 7th - people just hated you and discredited your personal devotion because you have the flavor of the month army. Don't want that again for sure...

 

Welcome to my life when I began playing T'au without knowing anything about the meta. ^^

[Aothaine]

I want to us to be T1 for sure. But I want us to have to work for victories with tactical acumen.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Aothaine

[Sawtooth]

My biggest hope is that the Codex differentiates us from standard marines. I don't expect so many releases as the Death Guard, for example, but their Codex did a fine job making them feel like their own army instead of just 'green chaos marines.' I feel like a lot of our unique flavor was lost with the index....understandably given their stopgap nature.

[Thrown Pommel]

It will, however, make striking jumpers a little bit better, but, with bubble wrap conscripts and other cheap screening units, this benefit is rubbished with blinding speed. 

 

 

I disagree. The fly keyword allows you to charge through the chaff into the sweet jucy bits as long as you roll the distance. Would be useful on jump infantry which is pretty darn fluffy for us! I agree that it would not be enough on its own though. Personally I'd like to see a stratagem to charge on 3d6 out of reserves and a strong chapter tactic (shamless plug for +1 to wound in combat!).

[Bremon]

30 conscripts can take up, what, 15” x 18”’ If spaced out to max spacing for unit coherency? Multiple that by a few units and that you can’t come within an inch of them and flying through the chaff can become a turn 3 thing rather than early in the game unfortunately. I do agree that fly opens up options though.

 

If we are remotely along the vein of Death Guard I’ll be ecstatic; a few ways to play, not game-breaking power, a variety of cool units and little that is so bad that it will be shelved for an edition. I really feel like whoever wrote that book understood the army, and I hope the same for us (and everyone else realistically but mostly us lol).

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

 

 

Just give us a Codex that's fun to play and lets us proudly say "Yes, this is a Blood Angel Codex!". Do I have to win all the games? Nah, I just want to actually have fun playing Blood Angels. That includes flavourful rules and balanced units that can compete with units from other Codexes without having to cheese some silly combo. Not more and not less.

But is it fun to lose every game? Because that has been my case since the start of 8.

 

How the hell is "Do I have to win all the games" and "balanced units that can compete with units from other Codexes" equal with "lose every game"? 

 

Just putting things in perspective. We all can go by without winning every game, but when you lose every game you want something good or you don't want them to bother.

[Aothaine]

I don't think we're going to get anything more than Grey Knight treatment to be honest. There would be way more build up and our dex would not be released until Feb-March. 

 

Expect some cool rules, no new units unless it has to do with primaris. Maybe Close Combat Inceptors?

 

But don't get the hopes too high. My requirement has been filled by the flow chart and rules allowing me to use index loadouts. So I have Heavy Flamer tacticals and devastators to rock with my flamer-baals. ^_^

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

How are u losing every game. We arent top tear but competative enough to win some.m maybe its u

Common opponent uses Tau, Eldar and Emperor's Children. Its all about shooting and "i'm just better than you at CC/tank busting/killing marines". So playing my BA has been nothing but a pain against him to the point where I shelved the army and started Thousand Sons. Was good until 8th and D2 weapons because a thing...

 

It has not been a fun time of playing 40k for me.

[Aothaine]

 

How are u losing every game. We arent top tear but competative enough to win some.m maybe its u

Common opponent uses Tau, Eldar and Emperor's Children. Its all about shooting and "i'm just better than you at CC/tank busting/killing marines". So playing my BA has been nothing but a pain against him to the point where I shelved the army and started Thousand Sons. Was good until 8th and D2 weapons because a thing...

 

It has not been a fun time of playing 40k for me.

 

 

You might want to think about changing the style of list you bring. Perhaps bringing 4-6 tactical squads might work better for board control with some strong anti-tank in the backline like quad-lascannon preds. It doesn't work as well with Blood Angels as it does with Ultras but it is still very viable.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

 

 

How are u losing every game. We arent top tear but competative enough to win some.m maybe its u

Common opponent uses Tau, Eldar and Emperor's Children. Its all about shooting and "i'm just better than you at CC/tank busting/killing marines". So playing my BA has been nothing but a pain against him to the point where I shelved the army and started Thousand Sons. Was good until 8th and D2 weapons because a thing...

 

It has not been a fun time of playing 40k for me.

 

 

You might want to think about changing the style of list you bring. Perhaps bringing 4-6 tactical squads might work better for board control with some strong anti-tank in the backline like quad-lascannon preds. It doesn't work as well with Blood Angels as it does with Ultras but it is still very viable.

 

 

I haven't faced Tau yet in 8th with BA, but new Eldar and Emperor's Children are VERY good... Eldar are not quite back to where you put any armour on the table and it's immediately vaporized but they can do some serious tank killing, and EC have a lot of great shooting buffs, even after they die... Any BA loadout is going to be a huge uphill battle against a halfway decent opponent using either of those.

 

My meta is super tough right now, new Chaos soup is just so strong; but seriously, we're talking about a weak-Index-army versus strong-Codex-army so while losing every game now might suck for some people, I'm ok with it knowing we're getting a book soon.

 

I gotta say I'm much less worried about Conscripts as I am with the various forms of cheap Chaos chaff, and then of course Tyranids, yikes...

[Panzer]

T'au are extremely weak currently. Unless they spam Commander and Drones there is not much competetive about them. The Stormsurge and Flamer/CIB Crisis maybe but the Crisis are pretty overcosted. Pathfinder of course are good but are only really required to get re-roll 1s on to-hit rolls since the Markerlight table is pretty crap right now. Breacher and Vespid could be considered good as well I guess but they are squishy and the Breacher are fairly short ranged so need an expensive Devilfish.

 

Unless the T'au player takes a really competetive list or you gimping your list yourself I'd say you have very good chances to win against T'au.

[Aothaine]

T'au are extremely weak currently. 

 

Unless the T'au player takes a really competetive list or you gimping your list yourself I'd say you have very good chances to win against T'au.

 

Completely agree here. I've been watching the Table Top Tactics videos and Bone on that channel has been trying to get his T'au to work decently well for months now. His most recently list is pretty scary though. He is using the YTs from Forgeworld. The Suits designed for real close engagements. I have seen them win twice against Blood Angels but it was against a really inexperienced player just learning the game. I honestly think the Blood Angels could have taken both games easily. 

[Panzer]

Yeah the Y'vahra is pretty brutal but also a bit tricky to use if you don't want to lose it early in the game. Though I usually don't include FW units in my thought process.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Jolemai

[Jolemai]

Moving on...

[Crimson Ghost IX]

FLG were just playtesters, not the authors/rules writers. Yes they also seem to have become somewhat the cheerleaders for 8th.

However, those dudes have more table time in 8th than most of us combined probably.

That doesn't make them the best or anything, but I am going to listen to their opinion is what I'm saying. I am happy to hear them saying things are going to be good to go.

The fluff and crunch of 8th has been mostly good so far and GW is doing well in my opinion, so I am very optimistic.

That being said I respect the differing opinions etc of what seem to me some great fellas at FLG who love warhammer 40k.

I disagree slightly on the reasons for the hate in some cases. But it's all good.

Let's agree to love the Blood Angels and move on brothers.

 

------------

 

This time last year things were bad for BA to the point that I myself really was beginning to suspect that GW was perhaps going to squat the BA at Baal.

(Maybe even wreck 40k itself so bad I would quit playing it forever)

 

I am delighted we are getting an actual codex shortly and that GW has invested time and treasure to try and please us with 8th edition.

Blood Angels are one of the very top factions in the story of 40k and hopefully will be in the developing future as well. (Seems very likely to me currently).

 

GW is on a mission to make people happy right now and we have collectively suffered and wailed a long time...

Is it likely that everybody is gonna be happy with everything in the new dex? - Absolutely Not.

However, things have been so bad previously that anything is gonna be at least decent at this point probably =)

 

We are like abused animals afraid to even come when called it seems.

It is always darkest before the dawn sometimes.

Keep Faith in Sanguinius and the Emperor. Been doing it too long now to stop now brothers.

 

There are indeed some very valid worries over game mechanics in 8th and how we are going to engage that worry me very much also.

We are all gonna know what is being done soon enough.

 

Gonna be playing with Blood Angels for Christmas this year regardless it looks like so that is something good right there =)

[sebs_evo7]

With the last few chapter previews have they been dropping at specific US or UK time/day?

[Pendent]

With the last few chapter previews have they been dropping at specific US or UK time/day?

 

The previews they did for the 8th edition rules way back during the spring would usually drop around 7:00am PST. I frankly haven't cared enough about any of the releases we've seen yet to be refreshing the community page but I'm guessing it's something similar in terms of timing.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Not to keep going about FLG but they came right out and said it was specifically their influence that the Index was built on, and it showed. They were absolutely more than just playtesters. I'd say their experience certainly outstrips most of us in quantity but absolutely not in quality, they don't even bother with what they consider weak units/ armies, where those of us that aren't simply current WAAC flavor players try to make the armies we love work. I'm sure they are nice guys, but that's where I'm coming from anyway.

 

Also Reece crapped all over "complain train BA players" after he offered bad advice and after claiming BA were OP. So those guys go far away as far as I'm concerned. Sorry for the rant haha but hopefully that gives you some insight into where 'all the hate is coming from'.

[Crimson Ghost IX]

Not to keep going about FLG but they came right out and said it was specifically their influence that the Index was built on, and it showed. They were absolutely more than just playtesters. I'd say their experience certainly outstrips most of us in quantity but absolutely not in quality, they don't even bother with what they consider weak units/ armies, where those of us that aren't simply current WAAC flavor players try to make the armies we love work. I'm sure they are nice guys, but that's where I'm coming from anyway.

 

Also Reece crapped all over "complain train BA players" after he offered bad advice and after claiming BA were OP. So those guys go far away as far as I'm concerned. Sorry for the rant haha but hopefully that gives you some insight into where 'all the hate is coming from'.

I hear where you are coming from and understand what you are saying.

Players crap on players all the time. It's a shame for sure. I sincerely hope you do not feel I am doing that to you etc.

 

On the point about bothering with weak armies / units and catering only to WAAC considerations I feel we disagree.

That is kinda the point of playtesting. They run poor units all the time and often show them to be better than you think they are.

They seem to have used their input to the process to improve the internal balance of the books so far overall I think.

That is what I have seen alot of from them while talking/playing since I tuned in this spring anyhow and likely why our opinions differ.

 

I speculate they had just finished playtesting our coming codex back around release and that was informing their opinion of Blood Angels back then. At least I hope so.

 

Anyhow, thanks for letting me know where ya are on it. That's cool, no hard feeling etc.

Let's figure out how to have a blast with these Blood Angels when we get some actual info...

Hopefully soon =)

 

You and I likely have a lot in common in the making the army we love work and playing with what we have/love/etc deptartment.

I am not a WAAC tourney guy myself either, not my thang. I'd rather a quality fun no pressure game with my buddies too *nod.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Crimson Ghost IX

[Bremon]

If we don’t get our first preview tomorrow I might have to start paying more attention to the whispers of the ruinous powers. Please god Emperor, give me info lol.

[Pendent]

If we don’t get our first preview tomorrow I might have to start paying more attention to the whispers of the ruinous powers. Please god Emperor, give me info lol.

The chaos gods BoLS and Faeit lie, brother. Do not give in to temptation.

[Indefragable]

Hey Morticon

 

What would most like our Chapter Tactic/equivalents to be?

[Morticon]

 

It will, however, make striking jumpers a little bit better, but, with bubble wrap conscripts and other cheap screening units, this benefit is rubbished with blinding speed. 

 

 

I disagree. The fly keyword allows you to charge through the chaff into the sweet jucy bits as long as you roll the distance. Would be useful on jump infantry which is pretty darn fluffy for us! I agree that it would not be enough on its own though. Personally I'd like to see a stratagem to charge on 3d6 out of reserves and a strong chapter tactic (shamless plug for +1 to wound in combat!).

 

Fair comment, mate! But, all the competitive gamers I play with use their "bubble wrap" 5-9" ahead of their firebase.  My comment about the 2" additional distance being made useless, considering you cant then drop in that dead zone, and cant get to the firebase through the deadzone (on account of needing to deploy 9" away from the bubble wrap) relates to that.  

 

Hey Morticon

 

What would most like our Chapter Tactic/equivalents to be?

 

 

That's a solid question. 

I don't have one definitive, short answer, but I do have quite definitive conditions/parameters.

 

That is:

 

The BA must be able to use their key/unique units in tandem with their shared SM units to field a competitive army that is notably different in playstyle and aesthetic from the SM dex.

 

That's the mandate I would have given the design team were I the BA project manager. 

 

I do believe that BA have the potential to be a better CC army than any other out there- but, while Usain Bolt may be the fastest sprinter out there, if he's only able to compete in swimming competitions - then, so what?

 

We need our buffs to be related to the system. 

 

There are a few things I would settle for:

Firstly, +1 Strength as standard is fine as a gimmick, but, it would need to be coupled with something more useful.

 

 If I had to choose one key buff/CT, it would be similar to the Wyches ability. 

 

If an enemy was charged by a BA Tactical or Assault squad, the enemy may only fall back on a 4+ unless they have fly.  If the BA unit also has fly, the enemy may also only fall back on a 4+. 

 

To balance this out, and as a "Red Thirst"/"Black Rage" drawback, I would institute the fluffy penalty that BA infantry units that charged are unable to fall back themselves. 

 

 

 

There are plenty of more gimmicky things Id be okay with "IF" we had option to mess with the system. 

 

So, "decent of angels" - with JP closer than 9", or a throwback to 3rd and allow us to move 12" and then get out (but not charge)  - or move 6" and get out and charge - that would be great..... 

 

But, again, I would argue for a Strategem that is 1-3 Command Points;  "Prevent 1-3 units that were charged by Blood Angels infantry or Dreadnoughts from falling back this turn". 

 

Key word is on charge.  It allows us to stay in combat, to fight it out if we charged and rewards us for getting there but makes us commit to it.

 

Any of those gimmicky +1 S, +2", closer distance etc - they're all just cute, fluffy additions that will make no meta difference to competitive play. 

While BA do NOT need to be broken, unbeatable or OP, when an opponent puts down a BA army (or indeed ANY faction specific army), you should have to think to yourself:  "goddamnit, now I have to play differently!" 

 

Currently you dont.  

 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2017 by Morticon