Prot Mini-Batrep Thousand Sons vs Orks: 2K (pictures)

[Prot]

Work's getting super crazy for me but I want to quickly get this out there, because I haven't reported any of my recent Thousand Sons games, and this was the result of a conversation I had on the forum with some of you about using Magnus because I had been getting kicked around pretty good with my Thousand Sons. If you recall, I wasn't sure if going full Magnus was something I'd regret or not.

Well some of you may know I like to start my batrep's with a critical moment.... and that would be right about here....

+ " Hold my spear... I got this...." +

So here we go: It's Orks vs. Thousand Sons. His list is experimental, he's been having good success with a Morkanaught. He uses a few trucks, and puts 10 boyz in each one. He has a repair dude on a bike to help fix the Morkanaught, and a few Choppas in reserves.

Here's my list:

Setup and Game:

- It's my basic list, but with Magnus this time. I'm sure it was illegal now that I think of it because I put 9 blue horrors and one 1 pink horror as a squad. I haven't really used them in 8th and thought I'd throw them into the list for something to try. They are my 4th troop choice. I guess I could have made it legal by simply making the Rubrics an elite choice. Oh well... no biggy.

- We play Spoils of War, and I go first because I'm awesome. Spoils of War dictates you can never throw away "secure Objective X" cards. (not to be confused with "Defend Objective X" which I see some people still accidentally putting in the same category).

- The deployment looks like this:

+ There be green men on Mars, but they ain't martians. Ahriman surveys the battle ground. The Tzaangors spread out. Magnus is off camera to the left, and some Orks aren't quite in the picture. +

Early Game:

+ I figure I should hold Magnus back. I explain him to my opponent. I decide in turn 1 NOT to use Magnus. I move him with his beautiful acid trip looking wings, but no psychics, no Weaver of Fate, no Warp Time. This would be a severe under estimation on my part, and I should know by now.

+ My lascannon Preds open up on the Dorkbot, and I do nothing. T8 isn't that bad, but out of 4 lascanons, and 3 Autocannon shots I do 3 damage total. This doesn't look good.

+ I score one point for grabbing an objective, but I don't even get first blood. I have to advance a bit with Tzaangors or as usual Orks will dominate the table space.

+ In his turn he picks up first blood, and a point.for something else, but he puts out horrendous firepower while advancing his trucks. He smokes a squad of Tzaangors... a squad that Ahriman cast Fate on and even with rerolling 1's, I lose all but 2, and Ahriman is assaulted T1. I thought I was deep enough to protect him, I know that Orks can, advance + assault, but I didn't think it would end up on Ahriman in T1. He dies quickly to a pile of attacks. Slay the Warlord goes to Orks. I'm losing 2-1.

+ After the Orks kill off Tzaangors and Ahriman, I get the Rubrics out and with 4 flamers, and bolters and I kill only about 10 orks in total. They get around the moral test ,and the orks are fine. I realize the trucks are advancing on my endges, trying to leverage the Predators. I fire on them.... get this... I finally get a Pen- 6 DAMAGE, and he Ramshackles it down to 1 DAMAGE! He does it again on another lascannon shot from 5 DAMAGE down to 1! Ugh. Man is that ramshackle annoying when it kicks in.

+ I realize after the Morkanaught finished firing, and his army finished assaulting, I was out gunned, and probably out assaulted, but I had the psychics. On the right flank my disk sorc went to town on some dreadnoughts, but I really had trouble killing them. I had to rely on SMITE a LOT this game for vehicle damage. Too many walkers, and trucks.

+ Magnus is angry, and I can't blame him, I still do not cast Fate on him because I just want to see what happens.... He swoops in and joins a pile of Tzaangors in the middle. I've been here before and if you don't contain Orks early they will own the real estate and you can't get them off of stuff with Warbosses and large mobs around.

+ I decide to drop in the Scarab Occult (7 termies) in behind the scene to set up some reinforcement for Magnus....

+ Magnus, Goats, and Scarab Occult! Now we have a game going.... or do we?

+ Well Magnus does what he can but the trucks are all full, and the Orks on the ground are wasted pretty good. I thoguht I'd try to put some dents into the Morkanaut but the Orks keep repairing him about as much as I can damage him. Magnus spanks down a large mob, and surprisingly the bladed Tzaangors blow up a trukk... but 10 dudes come out without losing a guy. +

+ The Scarab Occult fire up Smite, Hellfyre Missiles, bolters, and Soulreaper cannon.... on the Morkanaut and do one damage. Ouch. This is looking uglier and uglier.

Late Game:

+ The Orks counter with everything they can. What this does is buy my back lines some time. I knew he'd do this... he has to, but this way I have some breathing room. I get some valuable points. He has very doable cards though, but he can't do them without killing some stuff first....

+ The Ork Morkanaut opens up it's belly button and a squad of Boyz with Big Choppa's comes out. I hate these things.... sure enough he piles them into my Scarab Occult termies.....

+ And here we are.... the Morkanaught pours everything into Mangus..... +

+ The Morkanaught hits a ton. There's an Ork banner I cannot get to that has him re=rolling 1's in a radius. He hits Magnus pretty hard, and he's quickly down to half wounds even with my Invulns, re-rolling 1's. +

+ Magnus interrupts and splits his attacks against the two most damaging units I can see.... two Warbosses with fists. He kills both of them... barely. But the Orks continue with boyz galore, and a dreadnaught. Even without fists, Magnus goes down.

+ The Scarab Occult get owned pretty hard. This is why I don't like Terminators in 8th. Everything affects them... heavy bolters, fire, assault cannons, etc. In this case a cheap squad of boyz... with Big Choppa's hits a ton, and they are S7 I believe, wounding easily, reducing my save to a 3+. Each Big Choppa does 2 Damage. The Scarab Occult are easily diced up here.

+ So things are going pretty bad for the Thousand Sons as usual.... but it's okay, I still have... .Tzaangors! And predators (which have done nothing even with prescience running). They plink some more wounds off of the Morkanaut. The Disk Sorc I have gets me "scour the Skies" by killing a chopper, and he directs Tzaangors to take down some cheap troops for another victory point.

+ I'm playing for points here, it's all I have.... the Rubrics use good ol' fashioned Rhino wall to stay alive... I'm still shocked people don't play more Rhino's. This Rhino literally keeps the Rubrics alive for 2 additional turns.

+ The demise of Magnus has acted as distraction keeping my Rubrics alive.... The Rhino blocks the Morkanaught buying me 2 turns+

+ I snag a few more points here. The Morkanaught cannot get through to the Rubrics who are roasting the Orks trying to get close... I can't kill them all, but he can't get within 8" of me for the assault without melting.....

+ so here we are at the end. I've been down a Primarch since T2, and I have the points to win.... I'm purely playing the objectives, and somehow my Rhino lasts through all shooting... down to 1 wound, this forces the Morkanaught to assault the Rhino instead of the Rubrics which he desperately wants to kill to so he can move around mid table easily, but it won't happen... the game ends and Thousand Sons literally win by one point.... wow, what a close one. I never thought I had a chance.

Thanks for checking out the batrep!

[Charlo]

Great Batrep as usual Prot!

 

Really again looking at the Terminators. Once again sounded awesome on paper in 8th but the practical is a little further from the truth eh?

[WarriorFish]

What a victory! :D

[Zodd1888]

Wow. I thought I was reading an obituary. Gg Prot!

[Captain_Krash]

Crazy Magnus is crazy...nice to hear the Terminators doing...something.

 

Beautiful as always.

 

Krash

[Honda]

<Honda remembers when Prot complained about winning too many games, too easily...good times...>

 

Very interesting report. I've heard plenty of times that Orks are pretty brutal and your Big Choppas vs. Terminators fight really brings that home. This was a very exciting battle report to read, if only because I had a feeling you'd pull this out somehow, I just didn't know how.

 

Well done!

[Prot]

Thanks for the comments guys.

 

Yea the Termies just don't cut it for me in 8th. I started out liking them, but as time went on I have to admit I find them too easily destroyed. Like I've said, the extra wound is okay but so many things can adjust their armour now that simply couldn't in 7th..... fire, heavy bolters, assault cannons, etc, etc.

 

The one advantage Thousand Sons had was All is Dust, but these cheap (like under 150 points) squad of boyz tears into them every time I play them. Those big choppas are going to be a common thing in a lot of Ork lists. The same thing happens to my GK though... only thing is if he whiffs, I have a chance of damaging back with the GK.

 

I underestimated the Orks, and that bloody Morkanaught or whatever it's called. When it swung first with the banner... ouch.

 

I also overestimated using Magnus against a non-codex army.

[Archaeinox]

I get more mileage out of Rubrics than Scarabs. Rubrics take a 5++ on some crazy weapon and if it dies I don't lose a power sword and 4 inferno shots at 12"...... Also it can re-roll 1s within range of the character.

 

I find myself running 5 Scarabs in most lists, max. and only because I spent so much damn time painting them.

 

I use a vanguard with 3 units of Scarabs against players as a casual list. It only works once, and never works well against an experienced player with an average list.

[Zodd1888]

I think Terminators in general either need a third wound or ignore wounds roll. That would make them feel a little more defensively powerful. I was very surprised to see no real adjustments to Terminators out of CA.

 

Right now they feel like more expensive, slower, Primaris to me.

[Thousand Eyes]

Nice report. I am putting one together for my site at the moment, lost by a few points with my Sons to an Ork horde. 150+ boyz.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Great report prot!  Impressive win, as I to thought I was reading a very dead sorcerer. lol. 

I also have found that with terminators its very much an "all or nothing" scenario, either take a ton of them, or take none. I own 20, and generally I use either all 20, 5, or none. I have found in casual metas or semi-competitive metas that the termie spam is fine but your entire list has to be designed around that concept or it just fails miserably, so the single-wound guns have nowhere to go but at the terminators or vehicles/engines you run. 

Edited December 5, 2017 by Sonoftherubric21

[Prot]

I was taking a squad of 10 with a terminator sorc with Fate. It hasn’t been working.

 

Next up I’ll just use 5. I don’t care how bad they play. I have 15 painted for that old formation and I want to use them!

[Skerr]

I have 15 as well and i want to try out a squad of 7 or so.

[Prot]

I think that's the amount I had in my last batrep. Against Boyz with heavy choppa's it's a bad match up. They get a lot of attacks, S7 I believe, and -1 AP at 2 damage chews very quickly through the whole thing.

[Sonoftherubric21]

I was taking a squad of 10 with a terminator sorc with Fate. It hasn’t been working.

 

Next up I’ll just use 5. I don’t care how bad they play. I have 15 painted for that old formation and I want to use them!

 

Do you think dropping a unit of 10 with Prescience would be better?  Generally I am a fan of dropping 10 with prescience and either Magnus or Daemon Prince for aura support. thats a good 40 shots + missiles landing.  that + Vets of the long war will all but guaranteed shred anything that is T7 or less. 

 

I love the list with Magnus as its 20 temrinators + Magnus in the mid field with lots of daemon engines and walkers rolling up behind so its target saturation of hard to kill targets.  I think thats an issue with terminators, if you "can" prioritize between 1 wound and multi wound models they pick targets for "all is dust" and fire  multiwound guns at termies and ignore small gunfire at them as its a waste, my list is *all* multi wound models or large targets.....so now all small firearms are in effect a waste a huge portion of the time. 

 

FYI; My local meta of regular players i play against has decided for the moment that I may use a select limited number of strategems (the ones that make logical sense that we will for all but sure be getting, so I am not handicapped "further" beyond what I am lol. casual play of course,  not tourney play. 

[Skerr]

If i had Magnus i would run him as the center of a storm of heavy infantry and heavy support to reap that aura.

[Prot]

Yea it's an interesting debate... To Magnus or not to Magnus. Here I know that Orks are pretty darn good in every day play. And by having a Morkanaut, I dunno. I feel like that is like a supercheap super heavy. GW obviously wants to sell that model and I can see lists of 2-3 popping up now.

 

So is it that bad if I take Magnus in such a situation? Secondly, does it even matter?

 

I've seen so many games where Magnus dies T1. At his point level that is such a serious deficit to start with. I'm keeping him out for now.

 

I have this... 300 points or so that I can't seem to fill with anything I like.

[Paladin777]

A squad of 10 rubrics, soulreaper and a rhino is 300 on the nose... (assuming the proper points cost for the sorcerer is 20pts) Edited December 8, 2017 by Paladin777

[Prot]

Very true... but I already added that in! lol

 

Yup, I've been putting off painting a second 10 man squad... so time consuming.

 

I wish I could get a few Forgefiends working.... I have 2 preds in the list. What Thousand Sons unit would be good to work with 2 Las Preds?

[Raven1]

If your opponent is going to use models like that the only thing in the TS list to counter it effectively is Magnus, i would say.

[Prot]

Well you may have a point. I am going to try non Magnus tonight. Wish me luck.

 

Ironically I’ve pulled him to add 10 more Rubes and a small contingent of Herald plus 9 blues with one Pink and I paid for 10 pairs of Brims in reserves to hold my preds free of harassment. I’m even fitting in my 3 flamers because they are painted. Lol

 

Man I’m screwed but whatever.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Very true... but I already added that in! lol

 

Yup, I've been putting off painting a second 10 man squad... so time consuming.

 

I wish I could get a few Forgefiends working.... I have 2 preds in the list. What Thousand Sons unit would be good to work with 2 Las Preds?

 

For forgefiend; I use one, although I always use it with another (usually together paired with another tank, or walker of some kind, helbrute, contemptor, or a maulerfiend.

 

Forgefiend with duel cannons or with duel cannon + Plasma face is very reasonable this edition, and they put out decent damage, and their points cost is good.  Usually what ends up happening Is I babysit the bugger with a sorcerer within 18 inchs for a prescience.  

 

tends to work well for me, my forgefiend *usually* breaks even, and always outlives its welcome for the opponent.  I tend to like them, although I do understand that a "technically" better investment for points is a contemptor with duel butcher cannons (identical stats, better "to hit" rolls naturally) although the contemptor is far less survivable.  The forgefiend with 12 wounds, regen automatically each turn, 5++ invul, T7, 3+ save is not a bad statline at all. and we can expect further support once our codex is out.  We will most assuredly get blasphemous machines and the dameon engine strategem (id bet on at least one if not both)  

 

I dont know why but for some odd reason my Thousand Sons became the "daemon engine" chaos faction. We have great infantry, decent terminators, casting for days, and access to all 4 base dameon engines (to be fair I do not own a heldrake) 

 

and the forgefiend with thousand sons in particular tends to work fairly well at least in my experience. it may only need to move once or twice a game, rest of the time it can just shoot things to tar, gives us D2 shots and weight of fire to go along with our quality shooting. 

 

Edit : I just saw the "magnus dies turn one" thing; what kind of lists do you normally see? rarely ever do i see a game where mortarion or magnus can get plugged in 1 turn, but if i saw that regularly at my FLGS or in my local Meta id make Changeling an automatic take with Magnus in that case. That should fix that problem at least in some circumstances. I imagine if they are taking "THAT" many high strength multi-damage weapons they are handicapping themselves in other areas on the table. 

Edited December 14, 2017 by Sonoftherubric21