Primarch's series: best so far?

[Roomsky]

I'm sure OP has already made their decision, but I'll chime in and say I thought each improved on the last, with Lorgar and Perturabo being the smallest gap. Guilliman didn't really work for me, too much dancing around the more interesting topics in favor of ork smashing. Russ was better, having a great rendition of the Lion, though again losing the plot in favor of drawn out battles (probably a poor idea in books so short.)

 

Magnus was just an easy, pleasant read. Good primarch dynamic with him and Pert, good mix of mental and physical challenges.

 

Honestly I wasn't a huge fan of Perturabo until the last third or so, felt to me like Haley was just filling space until he got to the good stuff. The ending's a real gut-punch though, and a book that makes you feel something is always worthy of praise. Lorgar doesn't really meet the same high, but is an overall more even product, asking more interesting questions and using its time very economically.

[mc warhammer]

 

 

Interesting. I thought that the Lost Legions were banned from being mentioned or played with in BL novels...

 

I hadn't heard this, but thought the authors were avoiding it in general after Betrayer.

 

But there it is, a description of the personality of the II Legion Primarch.

which i think is fine. there's a difference between adding some flavour to the mystery and detail that takes away from the mystery.

 

it could get a tad silly referencing every primarch bar II and XI when telling stories set in the early days of the great crusade. yeah, the entire fraternity swore never to speak of them again (and we know how good primarchs are at keeping oaths) but the idea that they wouldn't drop a name in private or even think about their lost brothers during an inner monologue, when they seem to do so constantly about the remaining 18, is a bit of stretch in-universe.

 

what if either lost primarch was particularly close to one of the surviving brothers? being bound to an oath of silence over your favourite bro (perhaps even the only one you got along with) would be a struggle in itself. a little hint here and there of the relationships deepens the mystery.

 

it also doesn't play out in 40k, when oaths have been spat on and dreams have become nightmares. there's no real reason for any of the traitor's to keep quiet. "i broke every oath to dad, the imperium and purged all the loyalists in my own legion before backstabbing the brothers i rebelled with...but dad said not to mention II... and a promise is a promise."

 

getting back on topic; so far guilliman is my favourite. only because i haven't read any others yet. but i also liked it alot more than most seemed to.

Edited January 1, 2018 by mc warhammer

[Charlo]

Finished Perturbo earlier.

 

Cheers guys, that was phenomenal. Really awesome insight into his character and the legion mindset not go mention his own failings and one track mind. The last line gave me chills too!

 

Side note: the Curze audio drama is awesome too. Love his and his sons voices.

[Bulwyf]

I loved Perturabo but I think Fulgrim is the best in the series so far.

[Indefragable]

For what it’s worth, I think Leman Russ is the best of the Primarch series so far.

 

1. I actually go back and listen to parts of it again...something uncommon for me

 

2. It’s the right balance of new and old: the Space Wolves are wolfy as ever, yet we see both the Legion and it’s Primarch in new, insightful, ways.

 

3. It shows why Chris Wraight is among the best, if not the best, of the BL authors. The pitch is so simple it’s a single line: “why do SW and DA fight Honor duels (to the point there is actually a Strategem in the new Codex)?” ...yet the setup and backstory and narrative is so naturally written that you soon forget that pitch until Its artfully delivered.

 

4. It’s 2x Primarch tales in 1. One would argue that this is the best treatment Lion El’Jonson has ever received.

 

5. It’s relevant to the 40k setting as well as it explains where a certain character has gone

 

 

Ok, so clearly I didn’t just like, but was actually impressed by Leman Russ. Contrary to many voices here, I wasn’t really blown away by Perturabo . I had a hard time getting into it and had to restart a few times. I was genuinely interesting in it since I knew very little about Pert. There are some creative aspects*to it for sure...the Hrud may be the downright scariest foe to fight for reasons you can’t imagine until you read the tale. So there were some good parts for sure, it overall I thought it was like 4 or 5/10....until the ending. It has one of the best endings in all of BL fiction. The way it comes together and the type of revelation that would make Greek playwrights weep makes it worth while. The ending is a 9.5/10 so, composite I would say it’s a 8/10.

 

*

I also found the WWI shell-shock elements of it intriguing. It’s imposaiie to imagine space marines giving up, but how many of the contemplate it when grinding—and what a true grind of the nastiest kind it was—away against the Hrud makes you realize what it takes for such commensurate warriors to essentially snap.

 

Lorgar was good, but it’s quality has lessened slightly as I’ve moved on from it.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Indefragable

[Guest]

Finished Perturbo earlier.

Cheers guys, that was phenomenal. Really awesome insight into his character and the legion mindset not go mention his own failings and one track mind. The last line gave me chills too!

Side note: the Curze audio drama is awesome too. Love his and his sons voices.

I'm glad you could trudge through the first part. I forgot how boring it was until you mentioned it and then reread it. The ending and mid section are just so great that you forgot the slow first part. Cheers!

[Charlo]

 

Finished Perturbo earlier.

Cheers guys, that was phenomenal. Really awesome insight into his character and the legion mindset not go mention his own failings and one track mind. The last line gave me chills too!

Side note: the Curze audio drama is awesome too. Love his and his sons voices.

I'm glad you could trudge through the first part. I forgot how boring it was until you mentioned it and then reread it. The ending and mid section are just so great that you forgot the slow first part. Cheers!

 

Aye!

 

But like you said, it really did give me a wonderful high-fantasy, sorta steam punk, sorta ancient greek/ feudal japan view of pre-compliance Olympia in my mind's eye, which paid off later in the book and was an amazing contrast to everything else IW.

 

Loved the tidbit about the younger legionnaires questioning the status quo and the older ones just following orders - neither really at fault.

 

Everything about Bo's (heh) internal conflict was awesome too. Who is to blame? Himself? His brothers? His Father(s)? Riveting.

 

=====

 

Looking like it's Russ next on the list!

 

Purely because I'd had enough of Lorgar for the moment from his first few books in the HH series (which I did thoroughly enjoy).

 

Cannot wait until we get Sanguinius, Mortarion & Curze books. Oh and Alpharius 

[Bulwyf]

Am I the only one that enjoyed Fulgrim? I consider it the best Primarch novel and the best 2017 BL novel.

[Scribe]

It seems most of these are getting good reviews, shame none of them are local. I'll have to order a few.

[Guest]

Am I the only one that enjoyed Fulgrim? I consider it the best Primarch novel and the best 2017 BL novel.

I am still reading it to be honest. As you can see in my signature, Fulgrim Novel has some excellent quotes in it. So far it's very good, but I am not recommending a book I haven't finished. I enjoy seeing why Fabius acts how he is, also Fulgrim anger was unexpected too.

[bluntblade]

On the flipside to the "too much action" take, I like the idea of a story which is more or less one big sequence, with all the character stuff interwoven with the action.

[Indefragable]

On the flipside to the "too much action" take, I like the idea of a story which is more or less one big sequence, with all the character stuff interwoven with the action.

I have come to find that action sequences are proportional to their importance to the story. Lorgar has so much happen off screen because we as readers really don’t need to see it. It is inconsequential to the story that is being told.

 

In contrast, Know No Fear is essentially one giant fight sequence...in the best way possible! And it is because how swings what blade when and at what height is important to the story being told.

 

Something like Ruinstorm has a good balance of both, where the action shown is important to the story yet it is not gratuitous or filler material (though IMO it wasn’t necessarily the best ever).

 

It all depends on what needs to be shown.

 

To me the movie Gladiator is a great formula of every action sequence having its specific purpose in the story, yet not overshadowing the crucial dialogue that happens in quieter moments.

Edited January 4, 2018 by Indefragable

[bluntblade]

I'm absolutely on board with that. One of my biggest complaints with the Hobbit films was filler action - often twisted out of shape from action that, in the book, was all to do with the drama and characters.

 

Betrayer does a fantastic job of characterising Khârn and his Legion on the battlefield.

[Warpmiss]

Am I the only one that enjoyed Fulgrim? I consider it the best Primarch novel and the best 2017 BL novel.

I haven't got around to reading most of the Primarch books and since I'm not a big fan of Fulgrim I was postponing his. However, I hadn't heard anything about it, either good or bad.

[Sandlemad]

Am I the only one that enjoyed Fulgrim? I consider it the best Primarch novel and the best 2017 BL novel.

 

I'd still hold Lorgar up for its daring but Fuglrim is very good. Better than Perturabo to my mind. It's similar in that it brings out Fulgrim's previously only hinted at positive qualities - his sense of justice, his care for the common man, his idealism - without shying away from or justifying his negative qualities - his narcissism, his inability to deal with criticism, his insecurity.

 

It also gets across how superhuman primarchs are without too much recourse to scenes where they kill twenty guys without breaking a sweat. Think of that scene in Horus Rising where Horus immediately perceives that a pattern on a sensor display is something like music. That sort of inhuman effortlessness abounds but applied to diplomacy and economics. Thrawn-style stuff, for Star Wars fans, but done with peacock flair.

 

I'd see Fulgrim as the one to beat for future primarch novels, particularly for primarchs who haven't had the same amount/quality of character work in the main heresy books as Guiliman or the Khan. Thinking here of Ferrus or Mortarion.

Edited January 5, 2018 by Sandlemad

[ShadowSwordmaster]

Anybody here listens to them on Audible? 

[Brother Dougal]

I’m a little wary about this kind of discussion. From what I’m hearing, almost book in the Primarch series seems to be considered better than the last. Guilliman and Magnus are considered ‘mediocre’ while every one since (and Russ, but that’s Russ) is help up on a higher pedestal.

 

I kinda agree with that assessment, but at the same time I worry that it’s going to raise expectations going forward. Not every book to come can be better than the last; we’re not even halfway through the list! And Ferrus Manus is next, I’ve been waiting So long for a book about him, the least written Primarch of all! I might just buy it and read it even if the reviews call it trash! The saying is beggars can’t afford to be choosers (though this particular beggar is gonna keep asking for more non-eldar xenos novels) so I don’t care if it’s a masterpiece or not. It’d be great if it is, but just getting a decent look at the guy will make me happy. He’s Ferrus Manus, he deserves more time in the spotlight. Just as he deserved a better fate..... *bangs fist on breastplate*

[LJF]

The primarchs series geberally isnt't very good, they're just novellas and they just sort of tell a story without any particular depth or character development

 

The strongest so far was Perturabo. Those Hrud are pretty scary and OP race with all their time altering tech imo, which in turn makes IW instantly likeable for going into the meatgrinder against them. And props to Perturabo for devising a winning strategy.

 

Leman Russ was the weakest, it only reinforced my suspicion that BL has actually no idea what to do with SW in the HH setting. Every book in the series except this one told a new primarch story which we didn't see before. But you can read about the SW vs DA feud in every single SW codex since forever, they added some meat into it but it just turned out to be pointless filler because it ultimately didn't change anything about the Dulan incident. Wraight reminded us that Russ lost and got KOd in his own book where he was supposed to shine. Bravo  

[bluntblade]

Who says it's where a Primarch has to look great? Seeing a Primarch deal with failure is potentially fascinating, considering that they generally win all the time until the Heresy.

[ChildofFang]

I feel like I read a very different Leman Russ book...

 

On a note of them being ‘just novellas’ - I do struggle to see how that is an assessment of quality. If they struggle to contain the story and it feels cramped then yes but I don’t think any of these have so far. These are supposed to be stories that highlight an event or an aspect of character and the length of the stories so far has been fine. Stand By Me doesn’t become less of a film because it is under 90 minutes long.

[Indefragable]

Yea, I definitely read a different book than LJF as well when it comes to the Leman Russ book. All the reasons mentioned are why I liked it: actually fleshing out a moment that we knew existed and was key but never knew the details about. And talk about fleshing our a character...I think this might be the most character growth and depth we’ve yet seen for a Primarch who is constantly portrayed along the same few notes

“they say I never lost a duel...humph. Well, I did once..”

.

 

Not a knock on your opinion, LJF: I can see where you come from, but I have to honestly say I feel the exact opposite.

[Roomsky]

Not doing a full review, but I thought The Palatine Phoenix was really quite excellent. What is has over the others, in my opinion, is that it fleshes out something that frankly should have been already, while the other entries have mostly just been nice bonuses (Perturabo is a possible exception, it was good to see Olympia.)

 

As much as I enjoy the original Fulgrim, Graham's tell-don't-show style of writing didn't really lend itself to making Fulgrim a sympathetic character. Reynolds goes above and beyond the simple need for demonstration. Fulgrim is intelligent, witty, and generally a decent fellow, all things considered. For that alone the novel is a success, but it's made even better by strong secondary characters and a plot that has just as much action as it needs. Even better, the action that is here is handled very comprehensively, and never devolves into the mind-numbing. Honestly, this is basically required pre-reading for Fulgrim.

 

Odds and ends:

 

-I was really impressed by Fabius in this. He's completely distinct from Primogenitor's Fabius, and serves as a great foil to his preening brothers.

-The scene in the apothecarian involving a circulatory system was beautifully grotesque, a great example of giving just enough to let the reader's imagination do the rest.

-I'm a little iffy on Fulgrim's views of Horus. I know Lupercal is a showboat but a pyramid of skulls sounds a little extreme even for him.

-Attempting to blow up Fulgrim with a nuclear warhead makes Descent of Angel's plot to blow up the Emperor somehow even sillier.

[b1soul]

It seems LJF didn't like the Russ entry because...

 

"Wraight reminded us that Russ lost and got KOd in his own book where he was supposed to shine. Bravo"

 

Perhaps understandable...but he then goes on to claim that the Russ entry is all pointless filler. I completely disagree with that.

[Mellow]

Judging from comments in Fulgrim and Clonelord I have deduced that the 2nd Legion Primarch was in fact a bit of the silent type. Fulgrim thought he had excessive pride or confidence (which is rich coming from him) even though they were all prideful and he also spent a lot of time out on the galactic rim hence why he ran into that monolith.

 

I wonder if the 2nd were the “lost” or the “purged” as I believe that’s the general naming for them both.

[chamberlainskeksil]

Anybody here listens to them on Audible? 

Yes, I do.  Keeble is a perfectly fine narrator and I think he does most of the series for Audible.

 

And poor Sigmar, getting lost in the warp and having his children purged.