Primarch's series: best so far?

[Manchu warlord]

Haven't read enough Haley to comment. Where's a good place to start with him?

Not exactly related to "The Primarchs book series", but I'll help you out anyway. 

 

There is, Ooh look, 'Perturabo: The Hammer of the Olympia', which in my opinion is the best book of the Primarchs series so far. 

He did 'Dark Imperium', which is a must read, as it serves as a good introduction to the current situation of the galaxy.

He did a book called 'Dante', which - as you can guess - it is about Chapter Master Dante. 

He did another Blood Angels (plus their successors) book called 'Devastation of Baal.'

He did very nice Eldar VS Tyranids book called 'Valedor'.

As for Horus Heresy he did 'Pharos' and 'Wolfsbane'.

He wrote two books on the War of Beast, and those are ​'Throneworld', and 'The Beheading'.

His older books include:  ​Baneblade.  Shadowsword.  Death of Integrity.  

 

​​I'm sure there are more, but that's all I can think of for now.

 

As for where to start, well it depends on what you feel like reading, literally, start from any one of those.  However, their are recommendations to read certain books before others, such as reading Dante before Devastation of Baal; and Baneblade before Shadowsword.

[carlisimo]

I would have started 30k with an Alpha Legion army if there had been a little less mystery to them. That's great for an antagonist faction, but I can't play an army if I don't know what their motivations are. I'm probably dense but I really can't figure out. I'd be happy if it were made a little more explicit for both of the twins, whether or not their book is from their point of view or not.

 

I get the criticism of Gav Thorpe's prose (sometimes), but I like how he structures his plots. I think he'd be a good fit for a book about Alpharius and Alpharius, as told from the point of view of Alpharius.

 

*edit* bluntblade, I really liked Baneblade and (especially) Shadowsword. The short story Stormlord goes with them. The good guys might be a little too good for 40k but I really enjoyed the books.

 

I think he’s a little less impressive when he’s filling in other people’s stories (like explaining major plot points in the current 40k story) - still solid, but more good than great. That might not be his fault.

Edited March 20, 2018 by carlisimo

[Manchu warlord]

Honestly,I'd be totally happy to see French, Wraight or AD-B handle it.

No, unacceptable.  Anything less than Dan Abnett will not do the Luna Wolves justice. 

It was He (Abnett), that brought them to life, and it will be He, that orchestrates their pastime. 

[Indefragable]

 

 

Honestly,I'd be totally happy to see French, Wraight or AD-B handle it.

No, unacceptable. Anything less than Dan Abnett will not do the Luna Wolves justice.

It was He (Abnett), that brought them to life, and it will be He, that orchestrates their pastime.

...in your humble opinion, of course.

[Tymell]

 

Honestly,I'd be totally happy to see French, Wraight or AD-B handle it.

No, unacceptable.  Anything less than Dan Abnett will not do the Luna Wolves justice. 

It was He (Abnett), that brought them to life, and it will be He, that orchestrates their pastime. 

 

 

While I'd certainly be happy to see Dan Abnett doing Horus' Primarchs book, I'm sure other authors could also do a good job. I've thoroughly enjoyed John French's Horus stories (The Warmaster and Dark Compliance) for instance.

 

It's also tricky to judge since we've seen surprisingly little of them during the Heresy series, since the initial trilogy anyway.

[Lord_Caerolion]

 

Honestly,I'd be totally happy to see French, Wraight or AD-B handle it.

No, unacceptable.  Anything less than Dan Abnett will not do the Luna Wolves justice. 

It was He (Abnett), that brought them to life, and it will be He, that orchestrates their pastime. 

 

 

Given how AD-B has handled the Black Legion series, I think he's capable of doing the Luna Wolves. Wraight as well.

[bluntblade]

Wraight's work with other villainous Legions and Horus' appearance in Path of Heaven makes me pretty sure he could nail it.

[Manchu warlord]

 

 

Honestly,I'd be totally happy to see French, Wraight or AD-B handle it.

No, unacceptable. Anything less than Dan Abnett will not do the Luna Wolves justice.

It was He (Abnett), that brought them to life, and it will be He, that orchestrates their pastime.

...in your humble opinion, of course.

 

 

 

 

Honestly,I'd be totally happy to see French, Wraight or AD-B handle it.

No, unacceptable.  Anything less than Dan Abnett will not do the Luna Wolves justice. 

It was He (Abnett), that brought them to life, and it will be He, that orchestrates their pastime. 

 

 

While I'd certainly be happy to see Dan Abnett doing Horus' Primarchs book, I'm sure other authors could also do a good job. I've thoroughly enjoyed John French's Horus stories (The Warmaster and Dark Compliance) for instance.

 

It's also tricky to judge since we've seen surprisingly little of them during the Heresy series, since the initial trilogy anyway.

 

 

 

 

Honestly,I'd be totally happy to see French, Wraight or AD-B handle it.

No, unacceptable.  Anything less than Dan Abnett will not do the Luna Wolves justice. 

It was He (Abnett), that brought them to life, and it will be He, that orchestrates their pastime. 

 

 

Given how AD-B has handled the Black Legion series, I think he's capable of doing the Luna Wolves. Wraight as well.

 

 

 

[bluntblade]

Have you read the works mentioned, at least?

[1ncarnadine]

None of us wanting Dan Abnett to write a Horus book means anything. It's going to come down to him 1) Having an idea for a story and wanting to express it, and 2) Having the time to write it amongst other projects. Although, I think Dan would make the time if he did find inspiration. 

 

I would have started 30k with an Alpha Legion army if there had been a little less mystery to them. That's great for an antagonist faction, but I can't play an army if I don't know what their motivations are. I'm probably dense but I really can't figure out. I'd be happy if it were made a little more explicit for both of the twins, whether or not their book is from their point of view or not.

 

I think the Alpha Legion are actually at their best when they're the most mysterious. I believe concrete answers about their motivations should be as untouchable as revelations concerning the missing Legions. They're, in a sense, the ultimate "GM's Legion," where they can literally be anything to suit a narrative. And that flexibility allows a more organic narrative to form as a campaign goes on, too, if you so wish. And that's absolutely awesome.

 

They use the symbology of the Alpha and the Omega, an end and a beginning, but it's a lie, as they have no end and no beginning. It's their greatest strength and greatest weakness, both. At the same time that the Legion is probably too expansive and covert to ever truly fail, it's also too conflicted, complicated and nebulous to ever really "succeed" in a massive, galaxy-spanning way. It's almost like a parallel to the Inquisition in that sense, and maybe even a precursor to that order by the Emperor's own intent. Designed for lateral thinking, playing the opposite of Occam's razor by testing the hypotheses with the most assumptions first, to root out and solve problems with a way of thinking that other military minds simply do not possess.

 

The very human flaw at the heart of that almost alien thinking is that they most desire above all else to be appreciated for it, to be seen, for someone to go "why yes, you are in fact very clever, good work, no one else could have done this like you." Martial Hubris. I think they most desire that from the Emperor himself, and next from his other sons, but they go about it very awkwardly because they can't not do things the most round-about way possible. And they fear not receiving that respect. It's probably the only thing they're afraid of, in the weird way that Astartes only distantly feel fear. There are strong examples of this in some of their characters, too (see Autilon Skorr!).

 

So that's my understanding of how they think and what drives them. I don't know if that helps you, but that's how it clicks in my head, anyway.

 

If I'm wish-listing, I'd love to see John French do the Alpharius book, because his writing on the XXth has both informed my views above immensely, and because I think he "gets it" when it comes to leaving them open-ended. But honestly, any author that approaches them in that way could do a pretty satisfactory job in my eyes. At the very least, I'd love to see more questions raised than resolved.

Edited March 23, 2018 by LetsYouDown

[bluntblade]

That's a really interesting take

[carlisimo]

Yeah, I like the way you’ve described them and I think you’re right that it’s more interesting that way.

 

At the same time, it makes it difficult for me to start an army. I may be too attached to fitting tabletop armies and characters into the overall narrative to be a good fit for BL/FW’s approach to the Alpha Legion.

[Indefragable]

@LetsYouDoen by that line of thinking (brilliant!), the XX Legion are the biggest failures of all. It would be like the Imperia Fists wanting one of their fortresses to fail just so they could say “see how long that took?” Or a Raven Guard who can’t help giving away his favorite hiding spot in hide n’ seek...

 

...which adds to your point, I think. In many ways they are so good at what they do, that they can’t help but reveal themselves just for a little recognition. There’s almost a wonderful immaturity to it...that the “youngest brothers” of the Primarchs that get constantly picked on by their “elders” are in fact the best of them all...but they can only silently fume for so long before being unable to control themselves and reveal their true capabilities just so someone outside of the Emperor himself knows what they can do. Which in turn undoes their efforts and in many ways proves their brothers right. Full circle.

 

That was what Praetorian of Dorn pretty much was, IMO.

I took away the idea that the AL could have almost single handedlg taken the Sol system...but they were too proud and they just had to show themselves and their capabilities. Because if a tree falls in the forest, but no one is around to hear it....

Edited March 23, 2018 by Indefragable

[1ncarnadine]

Yeah, I like the way you’ve described them and I think you’re right that it’s more interesting that way.

 

At the same time, it makes it difficult for me to start an army. I may be too attached to fitting tabletop armies and characters into the overall narrative to be a good fit for BL/FW’s approach to the Alpha Legion.

 

Yeah, this was my problem, too. I attempted to start an Alpha Legion army, myself, and just couldn't connect with them. I loved the metallic scheme so much that I took an airbrushing course to be able to accomplish it, but after the course I quickly dropped the project due to lack of enthusiasm.

 

Then I re-read Praetorian of Dorn last fall, felt a new spark, and started slowly devouring every scrap of information on them that I could in order reach a new understanding. I went all the way from Codex: Chaos 2E on. Every short story in the HH series, every piece on them in the FW black books, every old Codex and appearance I could find. Vraks, Pariah, even Dawn of War. I've gotten pretty close to them now, but it took a lot of work to finally make a personal connection. There are so many different facets to the Alpha Legion, what they are and have been, and I think it's really awesome that they're all still essentially true, all at the same time.

 

In the end what I kept coming back to the most was Phocron, that lonely Headhunter Prime from PoD. Especially that sad little exchange with Silonius where, for a moment, he questions what the heck it's all about:

“We cannot help it, can we?’ said Phocron after a long moment. ‘Nothing we do is drawn in straight lines. Nothing can be simple. No truth allowed to stand free.” Excerpt From: John French. “Praetorian of Dorn.” iBooks.

In that whole exchange, I found that by far the most compelling glimpse into the humanity behind the Alpha Legion. And once I found the humanity, I found the connection, and finally started writing.

Edited March 23, 2018 by LetsYouDown

[Sandlemad]

Yeah, I like the way you’ve described them and I think you’re right that it’s more interesting that way.

 

At the same time, it makes it difficult for me to start an army. I may be too attached to fitting tabletop armies and characters into the overall narrative to be a good fit for BL/FW’s approach to the Alpha Legion.

I get that too, to a degree, but in fairness it’s not universal. A lot of folks collect tyranids specifically because they are faceless and alien and inscrutable. Same with fans of the lovecraftian aspects of the old Necrons. Wouldn’t do so myself to the same extent but can’t deny it was something I tried to keep when painting up my Carcharodons, with that in-universe ambiguity.

 

It certainly makes it hard to write a novel from their perspective though and kind of forces the approach that LetsYouDown mentions, looking at one small element in isolation, to make something relatable.

Edited March 23, 2018 by Sandlemad