What's your favorite piece of lore that's often forgotten?

[Gordon Shumway]

 

All Dorn-derived geneseed lacks the Betchers Gland, as well as the Sus-an Membrane.

 

In regards to the Raven Guard, it had been written back in their Index Astartes article that their geneseed was heavily degraded by the hothousing techniques used by Corax to bring them back to full strength so quickly during the Heresy.

 

 

They effectively got a bunch of marines that looked like possessed that were used as shock troops and to justify quoting A.E Poe 'Nevermore'.

As a not so subtle note to their RG origins, in the Carchcarodons novel, they use the phrase "darkness there, and nothing more" at least twice.

[Lord_Caerolion]

- After listening through The Beast Arises, I realized that one thing I miss about the Orks was their old 'material' nature. Sure, they had waaagh energy and so on, but stuff didn't work because they thought it would work. Their equipment worked because it follows the laws of nature. That the the Mekboys knew about them was due to genetic memory and more stuff being 'unlocked' the more waaagh energy you got, so their tech advanced by war basically. That Orks made, by their perspective, rational choices, and cooperation with other aliens was something that happened (kinda like humans might cooperate with xenos if no authority figure is around to stop them). The less 'magic' involved in orks the better basically.

 

I think it was supposed to be that the Orks could tinker with probability, rather than outright changing reality. I've seen people claiming "an Ork could hold a bent stick, and if they wholeheartedly believe it's a gun, then it'll shoot bullets when they shout bang", which is horribly wrong. It's more that a red vehicle will travel slightly faster, because "red wunz go fasta", and a louder gun will make a bigger hole in the target than the same ammo fired from an almost-identical, but quieter, gun. They had their racial memories that told them roughly what to do, so each Mekboy essentially works stream-of-consciousness, rather than following actual blueprints, and yes, their weapons do actually work.

 

It's why we got the Armageddon Ork Hunters, who would use captured Ork weaponry as trophies. If Ork weaponry truly did only work due to belief, then the Ork Hunters wouldn't be able to use them as well. They can though, they just aren't as effective in human hands as they are when used by an Ork. They're a bit more prone to failure, jam more often, etc.

[Eddie Orlock]

... If Ork weaponry truly did only work due to belief, then the Ork Hunters wouldn't be able to use them as well. ...

This could be rationalised in both directions though. See, canonically the Ork Hunters only ever operated in a theater full of orks and saturated with waaaugh energies. The orks would believe the shoota would work regardless of who wielded it so in their theater the shoota worked as intended.

 

There's even a historically canon interpretation of the ork fluff that has less gestalt warp magic. In this interpretation if you were to stage a race between two otherwise identical buggies, one red and one not red, the ork in the red buggy would still probably win. Not because the redness actually improved the performance of the buggy, but because the redness inspired more confidence in the ork who took more risks that the buggy was already robustly built enough to handle.

[Claws and Effect]

 

Shrike was originally recruited in the underhive on Kiavahr. He never spent any time in the forest like George Mann depicts in his novel.

Old Necromunda fluff implied the presence of forests in the underhive. It's just that they were largely macro-fungal in nature and laced with brain-leaf vines and monstrous spiders.

George Mann implied that Shrike grew up in the forest outside the hive. He was actually a runner for a hive gang.

[Lord_Caerolion]

And what's stopping him having moved? Early childhood spent in the forests, moved into the Underhive, became a runner, got recruited. Boom, issue fixed.

[Claws and Effect]

And what's stopping him having moved? Early childhood spent in the forests, moved into the Underhive, became a runner, got recruited. Boom, issue fixed.

Sure, except the fact that his underhive days haven't been referenced at all in any of the recent stuff. It's actually pretty thoroughly ignored.

 

Actually, Kiavahr having any forests left at all is a bit of a retcon itself, as it is described as the closest thing to a Forge World without actually being classified as one. Used to be described much like a Forge world, manufactorae and wastelands.

[M@verik115]

"In my years with the regiment I have fought on the burning sulphur fields of Krigos IV, on the blizzard-swept plains of Mons Frigidus, and in the hard vacuum of deep space, but none of these matched the horrors I faced fighting in the ruined streets of Vogen. It was a blasted, smoked-palled hell where death lurked at every turn and where brave men went insane from fear and suffering. I thank the Emperor that I survived, and I pray to him I will never have to return to such a place again..." Veteran Sergeant Hessel, 122nd Cadian Regiment.

[depthcharge12]

I miss necron pariahs :( such a cool piece of lore and unit

[Aramis K]

I miss necron pariahs :( such a cool piece of lore and unit

Came here to say exactly the same thing. Then got distracted on bitz sites planning to make one and jotting down rules.

I think there are hints about them in last Necron codex - they capture a Culexus or something.

[Lord_Caerolion]

 

... If Ork weaponry truly did only work due to belief, then the Ork Hunters wouldn't be able to use them as well. ...

This could be rationalised in both directions though. See, canonically the Ork Hunters only ever operated in a theater full of orks and saturated with waaaugh energies. The orks would believe the shoota would work regardless of who wielded it so in their theater the shoota worked as intended.

 

There's even a historically canon interpretation of the ork fluff that has less gestalt warp magic. In this interpretation if you were to stage a race between two otherwise identical buggies, one red and one not red, the ork in the red buggy would still probably win. Not because the redness actually improved the performance of the buggy, but because the redness inspired more confidence in the ork who took more risks that the buggy was already robustly built enough to handle.

 

 

To give it a rules-backing though, in the Rogue Trader RPG, Ork weapons would gain the Unreliable trait when used by any non-Ork, making them more likely to jam or break, and it was explicitly explained as because of this tinkering with probability. Still, I don't want to drag this off-topic.

[The Unseen]

The whole "orks mess with probability by nature" thing is very loose canon.

On one hand, you can find stuff that makes it seem like orks use legit engineering, and their hive-mind psychic field just keep their ramshackle stuff working better than it should, and on the other, you've got stuff like an Imperial Guardsmen report that they were pinned down by an ork heavy gunner team for several minutes of continuous firing, until someone got close enough to chuck a grenade. When the guardsmen investigated the weapon, not only did he not find ammunition, the guns ammo box was filled with scrap metal and dirt, or the crude picture of an engine inside a looted leman russ engine block, that somehow made the tank roll around.

Both are "canon" thanks to different authors and time periods.

So it's kinda up to individuals to decide how "silly" orks are.

 

I personally prefer the former, but the latter has more than enough justification if you like it.

[Lord_Caerolion]

The whole "orks mess with probability by nature" thing is very loose canon.

On one hand, you can find stuff that makes it seem like orks use legit engineering, and their hive-mind psychic field just keep their ramshackle stuff working better than it should, and on the other, you've got stuff like an Imperial Guardsmen report that they were pinned down by an ork heavy gunner team for several minutes of continuous firing, until someone got close enough to chuck a grenade. When the guardsmen investigated the weapon, not only did he not find ammunition, the guns ammo box was filled with scrap metal and dirt, or the crude picture of an engine inside a looted leman russ engine block, that somehow made the tank roll around.

Both are "canon" thanks to different authors and time periods.

So it's kinda up to individuals to decide how "silly" orks are.

 

I personally prefer the former, but the latter has more than enough justification if you like it.

 

Please provide a source for an Ork vehicle being powered by a drawing. The only thing I've ever seen supporting this version of the fluff is internet hyperbole off d4chan or /tg/. All the actual fluff I've seen, way back to Waaagh! Da Orks etc, has had that Ork technology is still functional, just "more than it should be". Ork technology being powered purely by wishful thinking is just a meme that got out of hand, like Failbaddon the Armless. What starts as a joke becomes repeated ad nauseum until people are saying Orks can fire bullets from finger-guns if they believe hard enough, because "well, I'm sure I read it somewhere, I just can't remember where".

[Claws and Effect]

One Ork believing something is not enough.

 

If you have an entire WAAAGH! believing the Warboss has a finger shoota, then maybe it would be possible.

 

The orky power of belief is directly related to the number of Orks that believe something. For example, ALL Orks believe da red ones go fasta.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Cause they do...

[MrZakalwe]

For me it would be the story of Nurgle granting the Eldar goddess Isha sanctuary within his garden.

 

It was a pretty good 40k version of Persephone and Hades. I like that the great endless war between Slaanesh and Nurgle was started because Nurgle was enraptured.

[Lord_Caerolion]

One Ork believing something is not enough.

 

If you have an entire WAAAGH! believing the Warboss has a finger shoota, then maybe it would be possible.

 

The orky power of belief is directly related to the number of Orks that believe something. For example, ALL Orks believe da red ones go fasta.

But until we're shown examples of that happening, it's not how it works. We've been shown repeatedly that they use Mad Science, but that they still are at least somewhat functional. We've never been shown make-believe Ork tech before.

[Leif Bearclaw]

Yarrick didn't cut his own eye out to be replaced with a laser because he heard the Orks thought he had the 'evil eye'. He lost it in combat at Hades, had it replaced with a Bionic that included a laser, which earned him the 'Bale Eye' rep amongst the Orks.

[MrZakalwe]

Yarrick didn't cut his own eye out to be replaced with a laser because he heard the Orks thought he had the 'evil eye'. He lost it in combat at Hades, had it replaced with a Bionic that included a laser, which earned him the 'Bale Eye' rep amongst the Orks.

They fear me? I can work with that...

[Ishagu]

There is lore saying Adeptus Mechanicus priests had opened up an Ork slugga to find a an empty case with a few nuts and bolts rattling around inside. It only worked as a pistol because of the Ork's belief. That's pretty drastic, although I don't personally like the lore going to this extent.

[Gentlemanloser]

I believe I can fly!

[totgeboren]

Perhaps I shouldn't have mentioned the orks of old?
I mean, you had the RT and 2ed-era orks who were incredibly goofy in their own way, then we got the dark and brutal orks of Andy Chambers in 3ed, which was also the time that Anzions theory (that Ork stuff works because they belive it will work) was introduced.
I always read it as a portrayal of how backwards and set-in-stone the mechanicus could be, since three main themes were introduced as to how ork tech worked. From one tech-priest (Anzion) the answer was simply "magic", while another theorised that waaagh-energy will stimulate the unlocking of more genetic memory in mekboys, while a third though they were simply good at copying tech, pointing to Gargants only appearing after Titans were employed in a certain war theatre.

 

I never read the report from Anzion as portraying the Orks as silly, I though it was meant to portray the Imperium as backwards. But lots of people read it as a statement of fact. 'Ork guns work because of magic'. 

 

That Red'unz Go Fasta is established facts, but for a long time the answer behind that fact could well be that any boy who spends his teef on making his ride go much faster than the others is likely an Evil Sunz speed freek of some sort, and as such will want his ride painted red.

Boys from other Klans are more likely to spend their teef on armour upgrades, spiked wheels or trakks, bigger/more/shootier guns or just gaudy bling. And this means that red trucks will indeed be the fastest on average. All boys would know that the Red truck is the fastest, but the paint would not be the real reason, it would be the owner.

[Elzender]

Yarrick didn't cut his own eye out to be replaced with a laser because he heard the Orks thought he had the 'evil eye'. He lost it in combat at Hades, had it replaced with a Bionic that included a laser, which earned him the 'Bale Eye' rep amongst the Orks.

I actually recall it being a mix of the two versions: Yarrick lost his eye during the fight, and since he knew there was the belief among the orks that Yarrick could kill with a stare, he asked to have the laser implanted to make it come true and play to the orks fears.

I guess it has been changing through the editions, but I kinda like this version of Yarrick knowing the orks well enough to use their beliefs against them.

[Scribe]

why isn't Corax's Monster AStartes not cited by cawl/Robby G when talking about Primaris?

 

Corax made marines faster and they were huge compared to normal marines after the heresy to beat back the traitors.

 

I think people would've beenmore open to the Primaris if it was based off of that template, and made references to Corax and his research

Because that book was panned over his success.

[BitsHammer]

So something I learned recently (thanks Adeptus Podcastus) is that Fabius Bile created the Glandhounds, who are basically Marines 1.5 (assuming Primaris are Marines 2.0) which included both men and women. So yeah, female Marines are basically canon, though they only wear spikes.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Where's that from?