[DW] Blackthorn and Swordhand: OOC Thread

[Steel Company]

Considering a Novamarine who's spent most of his time aboard the Chapter's fleet.

60+ years of service so far, volunteered for Deathwatch service to 1) learn more about Xenos, particularly Eldar, and 2) increase his chances of getting promoted within his Chapter.

 

 

Okay, do you see him as more command oriented or more out right killy?

 

If you want more killy, head him towards Bolter Mastery, it's really shines with a Storm Bolter or Heavy Bolter...

 

As a Novamarine, you get to pick what two stats get +5, not a bad at all.. perhaps +5 BS and +5 Fellowship would be a good way to go about it, as both would be useful to the key strengths of a Tactical Marine....

 

Novamraines also get +10 to Forbidden Lore (Xenos), this works well with with the idea you have in mind.

[Mazer Rackham]

If you do go for a Novemarine, make sure you read up on their unique Naval Boltgun.

 

Naval Boltgun is Marines Errant :)  I was tempted by one myself as I loved the "Second Outer Galactic Expeditionary Force" scheme from RT back in the day...

 

What drew you to the Novamarines Dos?

 

MR.

[Dosjetka]

SC: More command-orientated. Cheers for the stats suggestions, I'll most probably go with those.

 

MZ: They're Ultramarines but with interesting twists. I love their colour scheme and the tattoos they get done. Also their affinity for space travel and combat is something I'm attracted to.

 

EDIT: Has anyone seen Boarding Shields anywhere in the Deathwatch rules? I've gone through all of the books I own and couldn't see any mention of them (so I assume they don't exist).

Edited February 8, 2018 by Chaplain Dosjetka

[A.T.]

EDIT: Has anyone seen Boarding Shields anywhere in the Deathwatch rules? I've gone through all of the books I own and couldn't see any mention of them (so I assume they don't exist).

 

I've not seen boarding shields, but as a tactical marine you can start with a combat shield and treat it as one.

[Steel Company]

 

EDIT: Has anyone seen Boarding Shields anywhere in the Deathwatch rules? I've gone through all of the books I own and couldn't see any mention of them (so I assume they don't exist).

As A.T. said, by taking Right gear for the job, you can start with a combat sheil d, that is about as close as you can get...

 

Another way, would be to talk with CM and build a chapter trapping that do what you'd like it too. For example Tyber's arming sword trades away balanced for slightly higher pen and damage over the DA chapter trapping sword.

[Dosjetka]

The idea of using a combat shield isn't a bad one but it has a force field whereas boarding shields don't. Anyway, I'll have a chat with Mol. In any case, it isn't a necessity and I can do without. :tu:

[Mazer Rackham]

There's a thing called the Naval Shield in the Dark Heresy Inquisitor Handbook, no power field - used by repair teams to protect them outside the hull.

 

I think the Boltgun and Board idea is pretty groovy.

 

MR.

[Dosjetka]

 

Naval Shield

Class: Melee (Primitive)

Naval armsmen often carry one of these, to protect them as they protect their vessel. Each shield is a huge solid plate of plasteel, rectangular and heavy. Unlike most Imperial shields they are flat and smooth surfaced, so that they can also be used as emergency hull or bulkhead sealers. A Naval shield can be used as cover, concealing the user completely if desired.

As cover a Naval shield provides 8 Armour Points.

 

Naval Shield | Melee | — | 1d5+2 I | 0 | Defensive, Primitive | 9kg | 75 | Average

Interesting. Thanks, MR. :tu:

 

No idea how to port that into Deathwatch though. Thoughts?

[A.T.]

No idea how to port that into Deathwatch though. Thoughts?

 

Those rules work as written in Deathwatch, you'd get armour to concealed locations just as if you were standing behind a wall

 

Typically speaking it'd be 4 points (due to primative tag) applied against hits to the body, left arm, and left leg against any shot originating from the frontal arc.

[Steel Company]

Thinking on it, I'd take the combat sheild, drop the power feild, drop the balanced tag and add the unwieldy tag then either make it add a few points of armour 4-5 or a flat 30% deflect chance.

 

By losing the power-field it reduces one of the weaknesses, but dropping the balance tag and replacing it with the unwieldy tag means it loses the +20% parry and gains -20% parry, this would reflect the fact that it is just so darn big, it'd be hard to move it around quickly.

[Mazer Rackham]

Thinking on it, I'd take the combat sheild, drop the power feild, drop the balanced tag and add the unwieldy tag then either make it add a few points of armour 4-5 or a flat 30% deflect chance.

 

By losing the power-field it reduces one of the weaknesses, but dropping the balance tag and replacing it with the unwieldy tag means it loses the +20% parry and gains -20% parry, this would reflect the fact that it is just so darn big, it'd be hard to move it around quickly.

 

And then strip off "Primitive" and it's done.

 

Proposal:

 

"The scarred and pitted hide of the Boarding Shield known as Defiance was once used by the Ultramarines and a common sight amongst the Legions during the dark days of the Heresy.  Whilst of a type that is seldom used now, the protection it provides to Astartes going into an unknown breach is worth the ponderous weight it also carries.  Despite the surface damage, it has never been pierced and has been lovingly maintained by those who have relied upon it in the past.  The front is currently bedecked in the heraldry of the Novamarines."

 

Boarding Shield "Defiance" - Melee - 1D5+4 Impact - Unwieldy - Wt 10Kg

 

Defiance provides 4 points of armour to Body, Arm and Leg on the preferred side of the Character.

 

This shield is a massive plate of heavy gauge Plasteel laminated Ceramite, which due to size and weight does 1D10+4 Impact damage.  A Guarded attack becomes a half action, but Awareness penalties are doubled and any attempt to Parry or Bash suffer -20 to hit.  If Defiance is ever disarmed, the attacker must make an Easy (+10) Agility Test to avoid being crushed! 

 

Thoughts?

 

MR.

Edited February 8, 2018 by Mazer Rackham

[Steel Company]

 

Thinking on it, I'd take the combat sheild, drop the power feild, drop the balanced tag and add the unwieldy tag then either make it add a few points of armour 4-5 or a flat 30% deflect chance.

 

By losing the power-field it reduces one of the weaknesses, but dropping the balance tag and replacing it with the unwieldy tag means it loses the +20% parry and gains -20% parry, this would reflect the fact that it is just so darn big, it'd be hard to move it around quickly.

 

And then strip off "Primitive" and it's done.

 

Proposal:

 

"The scarred and pitted hide of the Boarding Shield known as Defiance was once used by the Ultramarines and a common sight amongst the Legions during the dark days of the Heresy.  Whilst of a type that is seldom used now, the protection it provides to Astartes going into an unknown breach is worth the ponderous weight it also carries.  Despite the surface damage, it has never been pierced and has been lovingly maintained by those who have relied upon it in the past.  The front is currently bedecked in the heraldry of the Novamarines."

 

Boarding Shield "Defiance" - Melee - 1D5+4 Impact - Unwieldy - Wt 10Kg

 

Defiance provides 4 points of armour to Body, Arm and Leg on the preferred side of the Character.

 

This shield is a massive plate of heavy gauge Plasteel laminated Ceramite, which due to size and weight does 1D10+4 Impact damage.  A Guarded attack becomes a half action, but Awareness penalties are doubled and any attempt to Parry or Bash suffer -20 to hit.  If Defiance is ever disarmed, the attacker must make an Easy (+10) Agility Test to avoid being crushed! 

 

Thoughts?

 

MR.

 

 

 

Looks good, but I was thinking more a chapter trapping rather then a relic, as the way you have written it feels more like a relic... Also you are listing two different damages for it, 1d5+4 and 1D10+4, which is it? Also it should see a pen of 0 too... there I think that's my nitpicking done on it, just need C.M. and Dos to look it over and provide feedback.

[Mazer Rackham]

 

Looks good, but I was thinking more a chapter trapping rather then a relic, as the way you have written it feels more like a relic... Also you are listing two different damages for it, 1d5+4 and 1D10+4, which is it? Also it should see a pen of 0 too... there I think that's my nitpicking done on it, just need C.M. and Dos to look it over and provide feedback.

 

 

Ah!  My Edit Fu is lacking

Supposed to be 1D5+4 as it is blunt and his SB will help and then it doesn't outshine a Storm Shield too much.  I sort of went with relic since it could be something DOs brought with him, but also because Storm Shields and Combat Shields require Famed Renown, so thought to give it a bit of provenance wouldn't hurt, especially as he's getting it (maybe) at Chargen.

 

Most definitely Pen 0.

 

On the Chapter Trapping idea, I did write a huge paragraph about this, but the internet ate it - the Novamarines chapter trapping are the Laurels of Ultramar, which is fine and dandy, but in British Military history (I don't know if Dos is a Brit and mean no offence to other nations, each has a proud and long tradition) back in the Napoleonic era there was a badge of honour for those that were the first into the breach of an enemy fortification, which was a laurel wreath worn on the sleeve.  It showed the man who wore it had guts, luck, the ability to lead and a fire in his belly - a man who earned the laurel would be sure of instant promotion.

 

Reading Dos' comments, his thoughts and his idea of the boarding shield kind of, well, made things click.

 

Please understand I am not intending to hijack his character - I have my own - but I just thought we were brainstorming and kind of had...coffee...

 

I do appreciate all the chipping in everyone has done in the  thread as well by the way.  Nice team effort happening here.

 

MR.

Edited February 8, 2018 by Mazer Rackham

[Steel Company]

 

 

Looks good, but I was thinking more a chapter trapping rather then a relic, as the way you have written it feels more like a relic... Also you are listing two different damages for it, 1d5+4 and 1D10+4, which is it? Also it should see a pen of 0 too... there I think that's my nitpicking done on it, just need C.M. and Dos to look it over and provide feedback.

 

 

Ah!  My Edit Fu is lacking

Supposed to be 1D5+4 as it is blunt and his SB will help and then it doesn't outshine a Storm Shield too much.  I sort of went with relic since it could be something DOs brought with him, but also because Storm Shields and Combat Shields require Famed Renown, so thought to give it a bit of provenance wouldn't hurt, especially as he's getting it (maybe) at Chargen.

 

Most definitely Pen 0.

 

On the Chapter Trapping idea, I did write a huge paragraph about this, but the internet ate it - the Novamarines chapter trapping are the Laurels of Ultramar, which is fine and dandy, but in British Military history (I don't know if Dos is a Brit and mean no offence to other nations, each has a proud and long tradition) back in the Napoleonic era there was a badge of honour for those that were the first into the breach of an enemy fortification, which was a laurel wreath worn on the sleeve.  It showed the man who wore it had guts, luck, the ability to lead and a fire in his belly - a man who earned the laurel would be sure of instant promotion.

 

Reading Dos' comments, his thoughts and his idea of the boarding shield kind of, well, made things click.

 

Please understand I am not intending to hijack his character - I have my own - but I just thought we were brainstorming and kind of had...coffee...

 

MR.

 

 

 

As far as I see it, were are just helping Dos with some ideas, as I'm not sure how well he sees the small details in regards to the larger ones.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I love the idea of it being a relic, just that most characters can't start with a relic.. as you know they are holy items to an Astartes....

 

As it stands, I'm roughing out some ideas for chapter relics for my chapter, when I have time... as I'd like C.M. to look them over, see if there are any that would be applicable to add to the Omega Vault of the Watch Fortress we are at. As I get more comfortable with the rough ideas, I'd be happy to get input on them from you Mazer, as we see to think alike when it comes to things of this nature.

[Mazer Rackham]

 

 

As it stands, I'm roughing out some ideas for chapter relics for my chapter, when I have time... as I'd like C.M. to look them over, see if there are any that would be applicable to add to the Omega Vault of the Watch Fortress we are at. As I get more comfortable with the rough ideas, I'd be happy to get input on them from you Mazer, as we see to think alike when it comes to things of this nature.

 

 

I look forward to it 

 

MR.

[Dosjetka]

Cheers for all the posts concerning my boarding shield, chaps. I do appreciate it.

 

I still haven't gotten my head around the rules so it's great to have help from others. I honestly don't think it should be a relic but more a Chapter trapping as someone mentioned. Being a void-faring Chapter and a 2nd Founding successor of the Ultramarines, who we know had units specialised in void warfare and more specifically boarding enemy ships, I'd expect boarding shields to be a "thing" amongst Novamarines. I don't see my character as being one particularly fond of going a long pilgrimage so I was going to look for an alternative Chapter trapping sooner or later.

 

tl;dr - sounds like a good idea for an alternative Chapter trapping and rules-wise, thank you for doing all that magic for me.

 

EDIT: Didn't know about the Napoleonic-era laurel wreath on the cuff, MR. Cheers for that tidbit. I'll include that somewhere in my character bio!

Edited February 8, 2018 by Chaplain Dosjetka

[Steel Company]

 

 

 

As it stands, I'm roughing out some ideas for chapter relics for my chapter, when I have time... as I'd like C.M. to look them over, see if there are any that would be applicable to add to the Omega Vault of the Watch Fortress we are at. As I get more comfortable with the rough ideas, I'd be happy to get input on them from you Mazer, as we see to think alike when it comes to things of this nature.

 

 

I look forward to it 

 

MR.

 

 

 

So far the one I've got the most work on, is called "Crusader's Charge"

 

Crusader's Charge

 

Volkite Serpenta

Pistol, Range 20, S/-/- 1D10+8E Pen 5, Clip 10, Reload: Full

Felling (1), Deflgrate, Recharge, Req: 65   Distinguished

 

Deflgrate:

Weapons with this rule force the living target to take a hard (-20) toughness test or take 1d5 extra wounds bypassing armour and toughness

 

Just having issues with coming up with reasons for it to exist and be in the Deathwatch's hands... so far I have it listed as missing in the inventory lists of the Dragons of Caliban...

 

Most of their relics I'd like to have a spin on Great Crusade items, as I have them as being one of the few off shoots of the Dark Angels after the sundering of the Legions... they just happened to focus more on keeping the Death Wing and Iron Wing from the Hexagrammaton over keeping the Death Wing and Raven Wing.

Edited February 8, 2018 by Steel Company

[Slips]

Just so you know, on the Tabletop, Volkite weapons have equivalent Ap to Bolters so it being essentially a super plasma pistol, as far as basic statline goes,  doesn't seem to fit; I'd change the pen to 4-6.

 

Otherwise, maybe have Deflagrate require a -10/20 Toughness test or take the extra 1d5 damage.

[Steel Company]

Thanks for the input Slips, I made the changes. I put the pen right half way at 5, but went for the harder toughness test. The point about Plasma is true, yet most of those seem to have a pen of 10 at the relic level, there is even a bolter with pen 8 at the relic level.... not that I am trying to justify having pen at 8 originally.

[Slips]

Thanks for the input Slips, I made the changes. I put the pen right half way at 5, but went for the harder toughness test. The point about Plasma is true, yet most of those seem to have a pen of 10 at the relic level, there is even a bolter with pen 8 at the relic level.... not that I am trying to justify having pen at 8 originally.

Well, since Volkite Weapons are ill understood in the current timeline of 40k, what with being Crusade Relics, you could give it an Overcharge, similar to a plasma pistol, to double its pen to 10 and damage by +2 at the cost of 5x more ammo per shot and make the toughness test even harder (-30).

 

This could essentially represent the firerer shooting off a sustained volkite beam that bores through armour and flesh alike instead of the normal lazer bursts.

 

Kinda like:

Normal: "Choom!"

Overcharged: "CHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!"

 

It already has Recharge so you wouldnt be able to fire it back to back for massive continuous damage. Its clip of 10 also means it can only fire twice on this setting per reload and volkite ammo probably isn't the easiest to come by...

[Steel Company]

 

Thanks for the input Slips, I made the changes. I put the pen right half way at 5, but went for the harder toughness test. The point about Plasma is true, yet most of those seem to have a pen of 10 at the relic level, there is even a bolter with pen 8 at the relic level.... not that I am trying to justify having pen at 8 originally.

Well, since Volkite Weapons are ill understood in the current timeline of 40k, what with being Crusade Relics, you could give it an Overcharge, similar to a plasma pistol, to double its pen to 10 and damage by +2 at the cost of 5x more ammo per shot and make the toughness test even harder (-30).

 

This could essentially represent the firerer shooting off a sustained volkite beam that bores through armour and flesh alike instead of the normal lazer bursts.

 

Kinda like:

Normal: "Choom!"

Overcharged: "CHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!"

 

It already has Recharge so you wouldnt be able to fire it back to back for massive continuous damage. Its clip of 10 also means it can only fire twice on this setting per reload and volkite ammo probably isn't the easiest to come by...

 

 

 

Overcharge sounds fun, but I'm not sure it really fits... I mean Plasma weapons get a Maximal setting it's kind of their thing... (+1D10 DMG, +2 Pen, +10m range)...

 

Perhaps the Overcharge mode could do Pen 8 Felling (2) at the expense of five rounds used... this would let it say F-U to Unnatural Toughness X3, this could make sens as everything I've read about Volkite weapons has them acting like thermal lances.

 

On that note, make the ammo for the darn thing also distinguished with a requisition cost of 30 or 40 per clip.

[Mazer Rackham]

 

Just having issues with coming up with reasons for it to exist and be in the Deathwatch's hands... so far I have it listed as missing in the inventory lists of the Dragons of Caliban...

 

Most of their relics I'd like to have a spin on Great Crusade items, as I have them as being one of the few off shoots of the Dark Angels after the sundering of the Legions... they just happened to focus more on keeping the Death Wing and Iron Wing from the Hexagrammaton over keeping the Death Wing and Raven Wing.

 

 

Obviously you can only CHOOM on those pesky meatbag types as well - otherwise I think the weapon is fairly solid stats-wise, although I'd maybe look at the weapon as part of a suite - so Serpenta Felling (1), Caliver Felling (2) etc so the danger of the things go up with ranges as well.

 

You could set the Pen at 4 normally then on Overcharged mode or as part of Deflagrate you could perhaps "On a critical hit, double the Penetration"?

 

On having it in the Deathwatch arsenal, hmm.

 

I think you have a few options for this:

1) Captured from the Dark Mechanicus/Samech Hereteks by a previous brother of the Dragons of Caliban and presented to him (and his replacements) as a tribute to his service - the problem here is that it has no provenance to your chapter, but it certainly dates back a while.

 

2) One of the Fallen has possessed the weapon for centuries and when came back to real-space decided to become a Blackshield and upon his mysterious disappearance despite a whole fleet of Angels of Redemption etc etc, his weapons on Erioch were taken by the Deathwatch and Handgun of CHOOM was amongst them as a rare prize.  This ties it to the Dark Angels and the Crusade Era.

 

3) Part of the lore around CHOOMguns is that they are lovingly maintained by the Marines and Techmarines that use them.  It could be perhaps that originally the Serpenta was destroyed by Overcharging once too often and it has always been in the Dragons' hands and technically minded brethren have made it their mission to rebuild it.  This could then be a long term objective for the character as he takes the heirloom with him and over the centuries gets all the bits - then when he reaches Famed Rank, he has all the parts and it becomes his Hero weapon.

 

The approaches are a bit blunt force, but I am uncertain how else we could get this organically into the setting in the way you wish to envisage.

 

Thoughts?

 

MR.

[Steel Company]

 

 

Just having issues with coming up with reasons for it to exist and be in the Deathwatch's hands... so far I have it listed as missing in the inventory lists of the Dragons of Caliban...

 

Most of their relics I'd like to have a spin on Great Crusade items, as I have them as being one of the few off shoots of the Dark Angels after the sundering of the Legions... they just happened to focus more on keeping the Death Wing and Iron Wing from the Hexagrammaton over keeping the Death Wing and Raven Wing.

 

 

Obviously you can only CHOOM on those pesky meatbag types as well - otherwise I think the weapon is fairly solid stats-wise, although I'd maybe look at the weapon as part of a suite - so Serpenta Felling (1), Caliver Felling (2) etc so the danger of the things go up with ranges as well.

 

You could set the Pen at 4 normally then on Overcharged mode or as part of Deflagrate you could perhaps "On a critical hit, double the Penetration"?

 

On having it in the Deathwatch arsenal, hmm.

 

I think you have a few options for this:

1) Captured from the Dark Mechanicus/Samech Hereteks by a previous brother of the Dragons of Caliban and presented to him (and his replacements) as a tribute to his service - the problem here is that it has no provenance to your chapter, but it certainly dates back a while.

 

2) One of the Fallen has possessed the weapon for centuries and when came back to real-space decided to become a Blackshield and upon his mysterious disappearance despite a whole fleet of Angels of Redemption etc etc, his weapons on Erioch were taken by the Deathwatch and Handgun of CHOOM was amongst them as a rare prize.  This ties it to the Dark Angels and the Crusade Era.

 

3) Part of the lore around CHOOMguns is that they are lovingly maintained by the Marines and Techmarines that use them.  It could be perhaps that originally the Serpenta was destroyed by Overcharging once too often and it has always been in the Dragons' hands and technically minded brethren have made it their mission to rebuild it.  This could then be a long term objective for the character as he takes the heirloom with him and over the centuries gets all the bits - then when he reaches Famed Rank, he has all the parts and it becomes his Hero weapon.

 

The approaches are a bit blunt force, but I am uncertain how else we could get this organically into the setting in the way you wish to envisage.

 

Thoughts?

 

MR.

 

 

 

I was thinking for the other Volkite weapons, they increase their RoF... Along the lines of this:

 

Charger Range 60m -/2/-

Caliver Range 100m S/2/- Felling (2)

Culverin Range 120m -/-/4 Felling (2)

 

I like the idea of the Charger the more assault oriented rifle having a shorter range and semi-auto only, while the Caliver has more of a rifle feel to it.

 

 

As for the providence, perhaps it could've been lost during a battle with a minor Xenos faction (sometime around M32 or so), only to be recovered by the Deathwatch during an operation to retake a strong hold from said Xenos. The weapon could've been badly damaged, so it became the life's work of many Forge Masters to repair the weapon to working order. Once the unit had been repaired to a point that the machine spirit could communicate with those that were caring for it, they could learn of the history of the weapon, leaving it in their care till one of the Dragons of Caliban came to the watch fortress and was deemed worthy enough for it.

[Mazer Rackham]

 

I was thinking for the other Volkite weapons, they increase their RoF... Along the lines of this:

 

Charger Range 60m -/2/-

Caliver Range 100m S/2/- Felling (2)

Culverin Range 120m -/-/4 Felling (2)

 

I like the idea of the Charger the more assault oriented rifle having a shorter range and semi-auto only, while the Caliver has more of a rifle feel to it.

 

 

As for the providence, perhaps it could've been lost during a battle with a minor Xenos faction (sometime around M32 or so), only to be recovered by the Deathwatch during an operation to retake a strong hold from said Xenos. The weapon could've been badly damaged, so it became the life's work of many Forge Masters to repair the weapon to working order. Once the unit had been repaired to a point that the machine spirit could communicate with those that were caring for it, they could learn of the history of the weapon, leaving it in their care till one of the Dragons of Caliban came to the watch fortress and was deemed worthy enough for it.

 

 

Sounds good mechanically and fluff-wise 

 

MR.

[Xin Ceithan]

Nice work all around! Also volkites!

Coming up from a ad case of flu and literally crawling out of a week's worth of night shift work, guess I have my to bring my game up to speed. Realistically, I am aiming at getting this done by midweek, end of the week at most. If that is ok with you guys.

 

And if some one can help me with the issue of posting in GREEN from mobile devices, I'd be grateful.