This Thursday on Warhammer TV...

[Sonoftherubric21]

I realize we’re going to have a range of emotions and reactions to this guys. Let’s try to keep it civil. You’re playing right into the Custodes hands!

 

I think some people may have missed the tone of my post. I’m certainly hopeful and duly acknowledged the that we didn’t see everything. In a nutshell, very little of what I saw in that game made me personally think ‘wow that’s something I was hoping for with my Thousand Sons ‘.

 

And I realize that it’s possible that everything exposed from this moment on could be right up my alley....I doubt it. But trust me, I don’t want to part with this army.

 

Honestly....I don't get it.    Lets take the tzaangors and shove them to the side for a minute;

 

We have VOTLW, A second spell set to pick from totaling out a minimum of 12 spells, the Scarabs and the Rubrics are getting buffed and quite possibly a points drop.  As well as the Deepstrike strat AND deepstrike Artifact allowing these squads to land *right* where they are needed OR even adjust mid-game negating their slow movement issues. 

 

What exactly else were you hoping for? Not entirely certain what else you need if you wish to ignore goats *entirely* and take cultist chaff instead (which are statistically pretty good this edition) spam sorcerers and rubric squads with some tanks and you've got insane spell output and incredibly dangerous quality shooting, and this is only stuff we *know* for a fact is coming.  I dont really see to to much of an issue if you want to sling 30+ rubrics on the table with a squad or 1-2 of Scarab Occult so long as you handle your direct AT elsewhere. (las preds, forgefiend, Defiler, Mauler, any of the Forgeworld contemptors or Leviathans, spell chucking from sorcerers considering the range bonus) Seems like if you wanted to spam dust bunnies now is the time. or shortly coming rather!   (added Bonus our Daemon Princes are the best in the game for what they do if they stay the same price point, 4++ invul, 2 casts, 2 spells a turn for what is presumably the same cost) 

 

This of course is only using the stuff we are aware of, I left out conjecture regarding Auras and the possible second part of the Trait given that the Twitch stream was pretty tight lipped regarding its existence. Let alone Exalteds or regular Sorcerers. 

 

 

Can you explain your point of view on this? Little bit perplexed. 

 

 

Random Side Note; Someone who quoted on a post of mine on Facebook said that Scarab Occult save was buffed to a 4++ in the twitch stream against a custodes melee attack, and as far as im aware Weavers of fate wasnt active, so in theory SOT have a 4++ save base now (this is conjecture based on that I did not see it myself but heard it second hand) 

[Khannis]

I think things may be looking pretty good goatmen aside, BUT I honestly thought we could hope for the full fluff + fleshing out treatment (Death Guard, Custodes). We'll probably be playable and we MIGHT even be good, we just won't be the full glory of what Thousand Sons could be in 8th Ed. For the first time ever, it's not far fetched to hope for things like Ork Clan Rules, Necron Dynasties, and for us, Cult Rules and properly fleshed out units (Order of Ruin Techmarines/Warpsmiths, Khenetai, Osiron Dreads, not to mention a slew of different Cult Characters, much like the diversity Death Guard got).

[Sonoftherubric21]

I think things may be looking pretty good goatmen aside, BUT I honestly thought we could hope for the full fluff + fleshing out treatment (Death Guard, Custodes). We'll probably be playable and we MIGHT even be good, we just won't be the full glory of what Thousand Sons could be in 8th Ed. For the first time ever, it's not far fetched to hope for things like Ork Clan Rules, Necron Dynasties, and for us, Cult Rules and properly fleshed out units (Order of Ruin Techmarines/Warpsmiths, Khenetai, Osiron Dreads, not to mention a slew of different Cult Characters, much like the diversity Death Guard got).

 

I agree with that, I really think that something is going on with Auras....Not a mention of one from us the entire game minus the Prince.....

 

Very Curious. even of the shamans aura. 

 

I really think cult rules may be the auras...I hope im right, I wont hold onto hope but if the writers knew what they were doing then this should happen lol. 

[Raven1]

So I'm watching the match now and it certainly looks good, but I can't imagine where they got the idea that it was necessary to nerf Magnus, and take the re-rolls and so far they haven't mention aura abilities once. I can't imagine being the only army without access to aura abilities. However I am excited from some of these new tricks as they will certainly help me in my games.

[MillionsSons]

 

I absolutely get where you are coming from. I like being able to play LEGION Thousand Sons. I admit that Tzaangors are pretty cool, but it’s not my legion. I however, like the space wizards aspect of it the most so if that’s returned to a level where we can feel like the tricksy mages in SPAAAACCCCCEEEEEE and still be a viable force on the table I'm good.

 

To contrast, almost all the units death guard got were Astartes, or vehicles.

 

This may seem like a downer post, but I’m actually really excited to see what’s in the codex, if a bit apprehensive.

Completely agree.

 

I think they want to reflect the lore on the tables, which his: Death guard can field only Astartes, as it is a full force legion able to replenish casualties over centuries, whereas TS are just a club of sorcerers doomed to fields dust warrior, and daemons, and whatever else they can find (goats, cultist..)

[Panzer]

Yeah it's not really Codex: Legion Thousand Sons. By now Thousand Sons are more than a Legion. They are their servants and everything as well. Like Death Guard aren't Codex: Legion Death Guard either with all the Poxwalker and daemonic vehicles included (keep in mind they aren't just mere vehicles, they are daemons as well).

Thousand Sons as well as Death Guard became more than just a Legion. They are a whole subfaction consisting of different elements now.

[Are Verlo]

Does anyone know if the 1KS bonus is:

+6” to the first psychic power used in the psychic phase or

 

+6” to the first power each psycher uses in the psychic phase

[Panzer]

+6" to all powers afaik

[Are Verlo]

If so, that is decent indeed.

[MoGuy]

BOLS article mentions that the Shaman can re-roll a psychic test. Probably his elixir.

 

Thoughts on Doombolt? WC8 is harsh but doing D3(?) MWs and halving/reducing the movement of a unit is pretty sweet. I play against Orks regularly and that will come in handy.

[hhhdan]

BOLS article mentions that the Shaman can re-roll a psychic test. Probably his elixir.

 

Thoughts on Doombolt? WC8 is harsh but doing D3(?) MWs and halving/reducing the movement of a unit is pretty sweet. I play against Orks regularly and that will come in handy.

I thought they said it's 9..

 

The benefit of it can be really good though, so I think it would be fine as WC8. Another way to mess with the enemy

[Panzer]

Heard WC8 as well but yeah halving movement of a unit is huge.

[hhhdan]

Heard WC8 as well but yeah halving movement of a unit is huge.

Maybe I misheard. WC8 seems quite fair.

 

Yeah halving movement is really big. That's why bane hammer is my favourite guard super heavy. And this is actually more versatile

[Amun Ra]

I am cautiously optimistic, a wider range of spells, they kept auras under wraps, we seemed a lot more mobile, the 6" trait can be very handy and we snuck a win using some trickery and shenanigans.

 

Tzaangors are a tool, think we could make do without if that's what you fancy. Mutalith seemed underwhelming but get they were being very vague with rules where possible.

 

Also thought Custodes looked powerful despite losing. Insanely low model count will make them a tough army to master but they were incredibly durable and potent when they got in close.

[Scammel]

Looks like this update will cover what the Sons really needed - mobility solutions and enough variety of relevant powers to make a psychic-heavy army viable to even play in the first instance.

 

I've touched on it before, but I collect Sons to get the most mileage out of a small, hyper-cool selection of elite infantry which uses psykers to account for capability gaps. New stuff is, of course, always welcome, but this book seems to be a great representation of the modus operandi of the Sons both in the lore and on the historical tabletop.

[The Yncarne]

Looking forward to a similar game with daemons replacing the tzaangor once more info can be divulged.

[FirstSonofHorus]

Looks like this update will cover what the Sons really needed - mobility solutions and enough variety of relevant powers to make a psychic-heavy army viable to even play in the first instance.

 

I've touched on it before, but I collect Sons to get the most mileage out of a small, hyper-cool selection of elite infantry which uses psykers to account for capability gaps. New stuff is, of course, always welcome, but this book seems to be a great representation of the modus operandi of the Sons both in the lore and on the historical tabletop.

Agreed. The good thing is it seems that they've addressed the mobility issues AND added a mobile unit (Tzaangor Enlightened). There are still options for regular rubricae to have better mobility. 

[Khannis]

Yeah it's not really Codex: Legion Thousand Sons. By now Thousand Sons are more than a Legion. They are their servants and everything as well. Like Death Guard aren't Codex: Legion Death Guard either with all the Poxwalker and daemonic vehicles included (keep in mind they aren't just mere vehicles, they are daemons as well).

Thousand Sons as well as Death Guard became more than just a Legion. They are a whole subfaction consisting of different elements now.

I know that, and I agree. I don't want to play a copy of the 30k Legion in 40k (that's why we have 30k...), and I understand and agree that we do use everything at our disposal in this bleak age, goatmen included. I just think that the BL books, especially French's trilogy, did such a good job of portraying the Legion only for GW to spring recycled models on us and call it a day.

 

It's not the inclusion of more Tzaangors or the Vortex Beast that I'm against. It's the fact that they did a half-assed job and passed over much more interesting options that represent our faded glory and doomed nature better.

[BoomWolf]

OK, here is a nasty bomb option.

 

Full squad of SoT loaded up with soulreapers and missiles in deepstrike, a rear exalted with the crystal and a rear full rubric squad accompaning him.

 

DS the Scarabs, crystal the exalted and rubrics to them, pop psyker power buffs, possible character snipe powers, VotLW on Scarabs and just mulch the poor victims.

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

The problem i have with it is that i got TS to have a resilient army that would be hard to kill. That isnt the case anymore and this codex doesnt change that. We will still be dominated by D2 weapon spam...

[Scammel]

 

Yeah it's not really Codex: Legion Thousand Sons. By now Thousand Sons are more than a Legion. They are their servants and everything as well. Like Death Guard aren't Codex: Legion Death Guard either with all the Poxwalker and daemonic vehicles included (keep in mind they aren't just mere vehicles, they are daemons as well).

Thousand Sons as well as Death Guard became more than just a Legion. They are a whole subfaction consisting of different elements now.

I know that, and I agree. I don't want to play a copy of the 30k Legion in 40k (that's why we have 30k...), and I understand and agree that we do use everything at our disposal in this bleak age, goatmen included. I just think that the BL books, especially French's trilogy, did such a good job of portraying the Legion only for GW to spring recycled models on us and call it a day.

 

It's not the inclusion of more Tzaangors or the Vortex Beast that I'm against. It's the fact that they did a half-assed job and passed over much more interesting options that represent our faded glory and doomed nature better.

 

Huh? The trilogy that contains Rubrics, Tzaangors/mutants and nothing else? Maybe you could make a case for a character like Ignis, but the new codex otherwise perfectly reflects the events of the series; Ahriman springing traps and Rubricae teleporting all over the shop.

[MoGuy]

French's trilogy depicts the Thousand Sons that travel with Ahriman to be a few mighty Psykers, a few squads of Rubrics and A LOT of Cultists and Acolytes (which are sacrificed in droves to fuel magic rituals) as well as tons of Daemon Engines. In fact the main force that they employ when they land on the Planet of the Sorcerers consists of Daemon Engines and Mutants/Cultists/Acolytes. Sure they also bring some Rubrics but they are the small elite force of the attack.

 

So in that regard, I think the codex depicts the 40K Thousand Sons quite well. A few Rubricae + the grand Sorcerers leading the Cult + Apprentice Sorcerers and the rest of their force is filled up with Daemon Engines and Cultists/Mutants. 

[HeresyBeliever]

Thinking about Magnus,

 

So currently most people cast / use:

 

1 - Super smite

2 - warp time

3 - Weavers of fate ? + 1 to invol save

4 - Death hex

 

How they appear to have changed it is you will need to choose between the below (assuming he still knows and can cat 3 spells)

 

1 - Super smite

2 - warp time

3 - Weavers of fate ? +1 to invol save

4 - Death hex 

5 - Glamour ? -1 to hit him.

 

That will change the tactics up and make you have harder choices. 

 

Of course you want:

-1 to hit him & +1 to his invol.

 

But it would now make you choose between super smiting something (i wish it didn't have to be closest model) or warp timing closer to something to get the charge off. 

 

It should make it an interesting dynamic. Also will stop people usibg death hex with him which should please those annoying people who keep screaming about him being over powered.

 

Annoying on the re-roll of 1's on the invol save but the -1 to hit could be better against lascannons and such like. 

[hhhdan]

Thinking about Magnus,

 

So currently most people cast / use:

 

1 - Super smite

2 - warp time

3 - Weavers of fate ? + 1 to invol save

4 - Death hex

 

How they appear to have changed it is you will need to choose between the below (assuming he still knows and can cat 3 spells)

 

1 - Super smite

2 - warp time

3 - Weavers of fate ? +1 to invol save

4 - Death hex 

5 - Glamour ? -1 to hit him.

 

That will change the tactics up and make you have harder choices. 

 

Of course you want:

-1 to hit him & +1 to his invol.

 

But it would now make you choose between super smiting something (i wish it didn't have to be closest model) or warp timing closer to something to get the charge off. 

 

It should make it an interesting dynamic. Also will stop people usibg death hex with him which should please those annoying people who keep screaming about him being over powered.

 

Annoying on the re-roll of 1's on the invol save but the -1 to hit could be better against lascannons and such like. 

 

there is the stratagem from chapter approved that they mentioned yesterday on the stream (but said they won't say what it does. I think they just forgot that we got it in chapter approved, lol).

 

It allows you to cast another psychic power that the psyker knows if there are 2 other thousand sons psykers within 6", but you add 2 to the psychic roll. Super smite with that would be nasty, as you would only need a 6 to do 2D6 mortal wounds.. (+2 for the strat, +2 for magnus's own rule)

[Prot]

Fair points Prot and I remember the doldrums around here when the Chaos index dropped and we were like "Whaa?"  I agree that the Rubrics and SOTs did not have a significant showing, despite opened spell access and also agree with hhhdan that they will likely see a points drop.

 

I still cant help but be optimistic after what i saw today though.

 

I'm glad you like it. The points drop might be the only saving grace there for me because I love those core units, but Scarabs in particular (terminators period) do not work very well in my meta. Far too many Damage x weapons. Yet (right now) they are far too expensive to be a cannonball.

 

-IF- they had a Cataphractii save that would help a lot. It wouldn't make them Blightlords, but it would be better.

 

People keep talking about them having an alternative psychic power. Well I personally had to stop using my Scarab Sorcs... just a few too many heads exploding on guys, that really aren't built for being psychic tough guys. I am really hoping for an Eldar type mechanism or something to help with Perils. (Plus the army is inherently too small to get the command points necessary to potentially protect against it.)

 

 

 

The problem i have with it is that i got TS to have a resilient army that would be hard to kill. That isnt the case anymore and this codex doesnt change that. We will still be dominated by D2 weapon spam...

 

^This is what I find. The winners in this edition seem to come largely from those that can hit the spam button to a large degee. When a lascannon goes through a cultist, or a Rubric it has the same effect. When a smite hits a Guardsman or a Scarab, it's largely the same result.

 

But that's just my opinion. And I have no problem admitting I played probably.... 90% of my games... dozens and dozens of games with 30 (3x10) Tzaangors. I like them, but had no delusion that I was forced to take them as well. (Or at least they had a large part of my success.) I just didn't want -more- of this. So I'm still hopeful. There's still a week of reveals.