Thousand Sons preorder January.27

[Sonoftherubric21]

In most of my bigger lists i will likely swap tanks for a vortex, 3 to 4 enlightened and a shaman. I typically run about 20 tzangoors anyway.

 

Kinda tempted to get a handful of shaman to zip around bodyguarding an exalted on disc smiting stuff.

 

That was an idea for Enlightened as well, I can see potential for a "module" of nothing but characters on discs. 

 

6-9 Enlightened, a shaman for aura and support, and an exalted with seers bane. tooled for combat all. 

 

Fling them up a side of the board and deny a flank to someone.  If you lose even half the enlightened on the way in that group would still work and they are cheap enough to make use of it. and of course proccing the 5+ for auto-hits, from D2 glaives..... Potential there. 

[Commissar K.]

Pre-orders are up...special edition or more models. That's a tough choice for me.

 

The dice are not going to be re-released apparently. There is a paint and model (non-discounted) bundle as well.

If you have the army allready I'd say get the limited book.

 

If you are just starting out with them I'd go for the regular.

 

Really the limited edition in my opinion is fan service which is great if you know your a complete fan :D 

[Archaeinox]

You won't get a Thousand Sons book for a long time. Personally, I am not getting it because I ended up not liking the Demons or Wrath of Mag limited stuff

 

but if there is any time, now is the time.

[Skerr]

So in my 1000 sons bitz i found 3 more force sword arms. I find the magnetation pretty simple and quick so why not? Plus i can magnetize the inferno pistol arms, aspiring flamer arms and all the semantic arms.

 

If anything it helps me remember who has what load outs. Getting additional ES shoulder pads might be only pain. Completely not neccessary but Im obsessed.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Random note; Anyone else love the fact that Exalted can now get Warpflame Pistols? 

 

They got some decent gun options, I fully plan on using those frequently. thats alot of extra hits every turn they are close to someone (at least the disc sorcerers will) 

[Skerr]

I saw that last night on strikingscorps review, lol.

 

Super likey.

[Prot]

After hearing a bit more... I think the Daemon Prince almost got too much of a boost. I think it's possible in competitive environments you'll see the Thousand Sons DP. The extra cast is something any DP player would salivate over plus his key words are all over the map so he will gel really easily with a bunch of builds. 

 

I do love that Ahriman casts, and denies 3 a turn now.

 

What's interesting (and I like this) is I was worried they'd just make the Psychic phase too destructive for Thousand Sons, that really didn't seem to happen this time. It's more about utility which is a good move for me. I just didn't want to be in a spot where I'm casting a 'renamed' Smite 5 times a turn.

 

Magnus smite got turned down too it seems. 11+ to get 2D6 I believe? I'm okay with that. When it worked I felt sheepish about 2D6 mortal wounds which by nature carry over... just felt really strong at times against certain match ups.

[MoGuy]

 

 

I do love that Ahriman casts, and denies 3 a turn now.

 

Didn't he do that in the Index too?

[JamesI]

Yes he did.

[Scammel]

Immediate impressions: this book has managed to accomplish what was absolutely needed for a viably-functioning Sons army, which was variety and flexibility in powers to account for a lack of other capabilities in the army. There's a good mix of esoteric abilities and strategems to make the army feel 'tricksy'. Magnus is in an appropriate place, with a good degree of versatility in power selection. I was worried the Mutalith was going to be a gimmicky auto-include, but now we know there's a few more slight caveats to it I feel it's also in a good place.

 

On the other hand, both flavours of Rubrics probably didn't get enough love to make them the competitive unit of choice over Tzaangors, either in the form of a mild points drop or a snazzy stratagem or two (though the buffs to psykers may well make them more potent second-hand). Tzaangors seem to synergise extremely well with many of the buffs on offer (particularly those from the Mutalith) and Enlightened seem a steal at 7.5pts per wound.

 

I think this army will be fun, flavourful and feel 'about right' for a gaming club. I still don't think you'll see many Rubrics in tournaments. I'm happy, and I think I will get to surprise my opponents time and time again.

[Paladin777]

Just finished my game and it was vs blood angels.

 

First impressions: the webway strategem and the dark crystal are worth their weight in gold. My opponent got in a bunch of horrifying first turn charges that saw a 5man rubric squad, a squad of 10 tzaangors, and my deamon prince wiped out and my predator tied up.

 

I had a 10 strong SOT squad, and a 20 strong rubric block in reserves along with a terminator sorcerer that really wrecked havoc when they dropped mostly eliminating their quadrant of the board. Using the crystal on the block of rubrics made for a lot of tactical options.

 

He started strong and my rolling was abysmal at the start of the game, but I still ended up making him work really hard for it, though I conceded on turn three after a couple of tactical blunders.

[Paladin777]

So in summary, we have a lot of extremely strong options available to us, we just need to learn how to use them effectively. Tzaangors are going to have to be part of that because after all we do need bubblewrap. If geared up properly, we have the capacity to be extremely strong against stand and shoot armies, But mobility heavy armies will still give us a bit of a hard time though it will be easier than before.

[Scammel]

So in summary, we have a lot of extremely strong options available to us, we just need to learn how to use them effectively. Tzaangors are going to have to be part of that because after all we do need bubblewrap. If geared up properly, we have the capacity to be extremely strong against stand and shoot armies, But mobility heavy armies will still give us a bit of a hard time though it will be easier than before.

Rubric-heavy armies will be slightly more able to keep pace with new DS shenanigans, but with discs and movement synergies respectively I think Enlightened and Tzaangors will be fine. 

 

I have a feeling the Sons community will be repeating words to that effect a lot, though.

[Archaeinox]

I think the real challenge with Webway and Dark Matter Crystal will be finding the great All Comers List balance of Rubric Marines squad size. 20 is cool, there is no debate there. However, IF you desire to run a single list against all opponents, I would hate to see a 20man unit sitting in place. Yeah, they might wipe something, but need some stuff spread out in other places.

 

Personally, I am more seriously considering two units of 5man Rubric Marines and one 9 man unit with 8 Warpflamers supported by Scarab Occult and Predators.

[Paladin777]

The biggest problem with the ru-brick is that you get one round of shooting and then you have a 450 pt unit that’s phenomenal at shooting stuck in combat. SOT’ mitigate this somewhat but being reasonably good at close combat, but are definitely more vulnerable to multi-wound attacks.

[WarriorFish]

I like the sound of a large squad of Rubrics, but wouldn't it be too inviting for counters? For a more general list splitting them up sounds better for a bit more flexibility especially with the Sorcerers. Having a big squad to buff with powers is nice but could a be a bit too predictable.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Why not drop a ten man? and put another ten man in a rhino for another area of the board? 

This helps mitigate a few issues IMO. also we arent paying a premium anymore so the price points are basically identical. 

Technically we "lose" 1 boltgun from that exchange, but its a thought.  Obviously something like VOTLW is LESS effective on a ten man squad then a 20, but its also far less eggs in one basket. I get nervous about eggs in one basket.

[Paladin777]

That is exactly why I don’t think I’m going to run a 20 man rubric squad again. I might run a block of 10 SOT’s again because they are actually good enough in close combat to have a chance of fighting their way out of it, but once rubric marines are in combat they’re pretty useless.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

The biggest problem with the ru-brick is that you get one round of shooting and then you have a 450 pt unit that’s phenomenal at shooting stuck in combat. SOT’ mitigate this somewhat but being reasonably good at close combat, but are definitely more vulnerable to multi-wound attacks.

Given that the Ru-Brick is the center of my current army, it will continue to be after the codex drops. I currently run it with a walking, double talon DP and foot Ahriman in the center. Generally how I deal with being charged is as follows:

 

1. Nasty overwatch fire due to shot volume and rerolled 1's.

 

2. Staying in combat and relying on multiple mortal wound powers in the Psychic Phase and DP/Ahriman countercharge to clear things up.

 

In the new codex, I can keep the DP near the front and Advance when the dust bunnies drop in. For this particular job, Ahriman can be replaced with a Terminator Sorcerer for the needed DS and even more CC power.

 

To date, I've had no problem Smiting and fighting my way out of tarpits. Now I'll just use slightly different powers and Vets.

 

EDIT: One of the unexpected bonuses has been that, given the duration of Prescience, the dust bunnies are swinging on 2's, rerolling 1's when it's my turn to fight. That's proven extremely frustrating for opponents.

[Bluthusten]

you need 10 for a reaper-canon.  so i think 10 Rubrics with 1 Canon and 2-3 Flamers (charge protection) would be nice for a solid gunline placed whereever we want.  

 

 

a question about Tzaangors:  Pistol+Chainsword  or 2 CCW?  whats "better" in math?  supported by a shaman (+1 hit for melee / range) and you can get the -1 rend from the Mutalith if needed (melee)

[Paladin777]

@greaterchicken: if it works for you that’s great, I guess it needs to be supported more than I was able to this game as all my CC was wiped out at the top of turn one. Ahriman was Melta’d to death the top of turn two as failing a charge left him open.

 

Before you ask, yes my guys were bubble wrapped, but he shot right through it. A blood angels alpha strike when it works properly is no joke!

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

@greaterchicken: if it works for you that’s great, I guess it needs to be supported more than I was able to this game as all my CC was wiped out at the top of turn one. Ahriman was Melta’d to death the top of turn two as failing a charge left him open.

 

Before you ask, yes my guys were bubble wrapped, but he shot right through it. A blood angels alpha strike when it works properly is no joke!

That's indeed nasty, but now after the codex, your dudes and Sorcerer won't be there to be alpha struck and the DP can be surrounded by Tzaangors who have buffed invulns and penalties to be hit.

 

And yeah....I treat the Brick like an old style Deathstar and focus on supporting it while layering buffs.

[Commissar K.]

After hearing a bit more... I think the Daemon Prince almost got too much of a boost. I think it's possible in competitive environments you'll see the Thousand Sons DP. The extra cast is something any DP player would salivate over plus his key words are all over the map so he will gel really easily with a bunch of builds. 

 

What's interesting (and I like this) is I was worried they'd just make the Psychic phase too destructive for Thousand Sons, that really didn't seem to happen this time. It's more about utility which is a good move for me. I just didn't want to be in a spot where I'm casting a 'renamed' Smite 5 times a turn.

 

Magnus smite got turned down too it seems. 11+ to get 2D6 I believe? I'm okay with that. When it worked I felt sheepish about 2D6 mortal wounds which by nature carry over... just felt really strong at times against certain match ups.

Since the Daemon Codex I have certainly enjoyed my Khorne Daemon Prince much and much more as the World Eater Daemon Prince. So I really think the fact that the TS DP matters so much is actually a really good thing. Especially considering that a Tzeentch option can still be used and Deepstriked... Or a LoC for that matter... Love it and I think a DP should be a common sight for CSM or mixed Chaos armies. Gotta love that 3rd ed vibe that brought me here in the first place.

 

In general I think GW still doesn't really know how to fix the Smite part but otherwise I think the rest of Psycic Powers are well balanced. They are very potent with Thousand Sons and should be but it's still limited and all. Again great design.

 

For Magnus I think he will (and should be) a rarity. For better and worse he got toned down but at the same time there seems to be a 'community issue' with Primarchs. The discussion is very subjective but I think the only logical conclusion I can draw for Primarchs to come is that they will feel more toned down and less optimal. This can change again if GW finally decides to do something about CP = cheap units though.

 

Immediate impressions: this book has managed to accomplish what was absolutely needed for a viably-functioning Sons army, which was variety and flexibility in powers to account for a lack of other capabilities in the army. There's a good mix of esoteric abilities and strategems to make the army feel 'tricksy'. Magnus is in an appropriate place, with a good degree of versatility in power selection. I was worried the Mutalith was going to be a gimmicky auto-include, but now we know there's a few more slight caveats to it I feel it's also in a good place.

 

On the other hand, both flavours of Rubrics probably didn't get enough love to make them the competitive unit of choice over Tzaangors, either in the form of a mild points drop or a snazzy stratagem or two (though the buffs to psykers may well make them more potent second-hand). Tzaangors seem to synergise extremely well with many of the buffs on offer (particularly those from the Mutalith) and Enlightened seem a steal at 7.5pts per wound.

 

I think this army will be fun, flavourful and feel 'about right' for a gaming club. I still don't think you'll see many Rubrics in tournaments. I'm happy, and I think I will get to surprise my opponents time and time again.

Can only agree with that vision. As discussed elsewhere too, Tzaangors (cheap unit edition) indeed seem to be a whole lot more relevant. But then again, this is a good thing also, it could maby increase in cost with a CA but not any time soon.

 

In general I think some Rubrics will still be seen but indeed they are more the Elite choice as Troop choice really. Though honestly using 10 to 20 is still a very solid choice in my opinion. Especially if you don't solely focus on Tzaangors with them but bubble-wrapped-deepstriked Horrors aswell. Lots of awesome options really.

 

Why not drop a ten man? and put another ten man in a rhino for another area of the board? 

 

This helps mitigate a few issues IMO. also we arent paying a premium anymore so the price points are basically identical. 

 

Technically we "lose" 1 boltgun from that exchange, but its a thought.  Obviously something like VOTLW is LESS effective on a ten man squad then a 20, but its also far less eggs in one basket. I get nervous about eggs in one basket.

My gut feeling on Rubrics so far has been, thake two 10 units and deep strike the both of them. Costly but very effective, Rhino's and such are ultimately not that relevant for TS in my opinion. In reality they are for nobody really but some are forced to use them ;) 

[yergerjo]

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/warhammer_40000_designers_commentary_en-1.pdf

 

For everyone complaining about the lack of force sword on the Exalted Sorc or worried about losing a force sword/axe on Aspiring Sorcs, remember the last page of the Designers Commentary...the flow chart.

[Skallagoose]

i see a lot of synergies with Daemons. Daemons provide cheap and durable troops and bodies on the board (4++pink horror blobs). If you have a full daemon detachment you can use the strategem that allows re-rolled failed psychic tests, radiating from a character. While you can only use it on a Daemon Faction model- the aura affects all Daemons (keyword), so Disk riders and DPs (and magnus) would be included.

 

So what am i thinking?

60+pink horror screen, 2 dps, 2 harolds, 1 ahriman and possibly magnus slowly moving up the board (not that slow with a 6" plus advance) movement with super strong casting and good (not great) damage output. 

 

I look forward to seeing competitive lists- but i see Tsons as more an Aux with strong reliance on specific characters than overall buffs