Thousand Sons preorder January.27

[Raven1]

@greaterchicken: if it works for you that’s great, I guess it needs to be supported more than I was able to this game as all my CC was wiped out at the top of turn one. Ahriman was Melta’d to death the top of turn two as failing a charge left him open.

 

Before you ask, yes my guys were bubble wrapped, but he shot right through it. A blood angels alpha strike when it works properly is no joke!

Deepstriking assault marines/ death company I take it? I have faced it once. It was the only game my warpflamers did any good and slaughtered the Sons of Sanguinius. I was able to tarpit some death company and astorath with an Exalted and Tzaangors made them worthless almost all game, he just had to chew through all those bodies.

 

If you need more deepstrike protection then bubble wrap you could allied renegade and heretics for scout sentinels to push his deepstrikers closer to his lines or force him to wait till turn to

2 or 3.

[Skerr]

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/warhammer_40000_designers_commentary_en-1.pdf

 

For everyone complaining about the lack of force sword on the Exalted Sorc or worried about losing a force sword/axe on Aspiring Sorcs, remember the last page of the Designers Commentary...the flow chart.

Good to know! Thanks.

[yergerjo]

 

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/warhammer_40000_designers_commentary_en-1.pdf

 

For everyone complaining about the lack of force sword on the Exalted Sorc or worried about losing a force sword/axe on Aspiring Sorcs, remember the last page of the Designers Commentary...the flow chart.

Good to know! Thanks.

Your welcome...glad to help slow the flow of our salty tears...

[Sonoftherubric21]

Doesnt having a codex option override the flow charts reference page? 

[Panzer]

Doesnt having a codex option override the flow charts reference page? 

Uhm...just read the flow chart? It clearly says that if the units datasheets index version has options the codex version doesn't have you use the codex version but use the index version for the wargear options.

[Sonoftherubric21]

 

Doesnt having a codex option override the flow charts reference page? 

Uhm...just read the flow chart? It clearly says that if the units datasheets index version has options the codex version doesn't have you use the codex version but use the index version for the wargear options.

 

 

I Herped a derp today on that. Thanks! 

[Thousand Sons Sorcerer]

Yeah have to say I am mildly disappointed about this release.

 

I liked the Tzaangors as they were. Don't mind having more options, but to get only units that explicitly benifit Tzaangor units more, or implicitly benefit Tzaangors more.

 

I don't play in a competitive meta so I probably wont be getting any of the new models, as they are too OP, and the book seems to be 90% reprint. I already CSM Codex if I buy Daemons I have all but the Tzaangor units, which I wont be running and 4 spells, and a couple of unit entries which I already have access to so no real reason to pock up the codex.

[Prot]

Well as far as the new stuff being 'OP'... I really don't know about that. I think we'll really have to wait and see. Is Magnus going to be good? I'm sure he will be something you can't ignore; however, I'd theorize he was as good, if not more survivable, before the Changling nerf and changes to Magnus.

 

One non-competitive theme I'm really wanting to try is something pretty simple: 

- A Landraider with 10 Rubrics, blocking Ahriman on a disk with my usual dual bladed Tzaangors.

- Give the Landraider's dual heavy bolter the psybolt strat for the game.

- Cast Glamour on the Landraider for the  -1

- Heal the landraider for D3 when needed

- Cast Prescience.

 

I always have trouble with massed armour or equivalent (IE: Nid Monster mash). And I get to put some work into something I've been wanting to do since 8th came out... a Landraider.

 

I know this won't be optimal, and a lot of people don't like Landraiders this edition, but really I don't see myself embarking deep into Mutaliths/Disk-zors, etc. So this will be a fun project for me... that hopefully won't be full of regret in its first game. lol

[Skerr]

I captured as many point costs as i could from vids and started list building last night. Kept comparing and weighing costs of having two 3 man enlightned, a couple shaman and a fourth HQ in place of some armor. Experimenting with dropping my standard 20 tzangoors as well now that we have more spells.

 

Looks like i have a tzangoor free detatch as well as a tzangoor list though it still includes 20 rubs, 5 sots, Ahri,1 to 2 ES and a DP. Both lists have a vortex beast. Still fine tuning of course.

 

Starting to feel more MSUs on rubrics now.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Well as far as the new stuff being 'OP'... I really don't know about that. I think we'll really have to wait and see. Is Magnus going to be good? I'm sure he will be something you can't ignore; however, I'd theorize he was as good, if not more survivable, before the Changling nerf and changes to Magnus.

 

One non-competitive theme I'm really wanting to try is something pretty simple: 

- A Landraider with 10 Rubrics, blocking Ahriman on a disk with my usual dual bladed Tzaangors.

- Give the Landraider's dual heavy bolter the psybolt strat for the game.

- Cast Glamour on the Landraider for the  -1

- Heal the landraider for D3 when needed

- Cast Prescience.

 

I always have trouble with massed armour or equivalent (IE: Nid Monster mash). And I get to put some work into something I've been wanting to do since 8th came out... a Landraider.

 

I know this won't be optimal, and a lot of people don't like Landraiders this edition, but really I don't see myself embarking deep into Mutaliths/Disk-zors, etc. So this will be a fun project for me... that hopefully won't be full of regret in its first game. lol

 

This looks like a fun and interesting list. I dont know how most metas would even begin to cope with a -1 to hit Land Raider easily.  I to have a land raider so I may borrow your idea :p 

 

Very little in any codex is "optimal" so just go with it, what do the rubrics in the raider have? 

[Prot]

the Rubrics... I have no idea. I have them so I can just swap (press fit) the flamers / bolters. But to be honest I think I'd like to plop as many flamers as possible for a second turn, 3" disembark, move + Warp Time, mega flame... hopefully hooking up with my Scarab Occult at about the same time. (I always use a Termie Sorc HQ so he should be able to assist).

 

I'm just guessing right now with lack of costs. Honestly this idea just comes from wanting to do a Landraider project for my Thousand Sons. In 8th I was very excited to use two iconic units: Termies and Landraiders. Both have diminished greatly as index rules turned into codexes.... BUT with these new powers this might be my best shot at just having some fun with a Landraider. 

 

Until now I had proxied Landraider from my other armies and just been underwhelmed so I never started the Thousand Sons landraider project.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Are land raiders generally considered bad? Id imagine what? 16 wounds, T8, 2+ is a fairly survivable statline for the most part. (compared to many things...that is) 

 

I imagined they are overcosted 10% or so maybe, but for the firepower it brings along with being fairly sturdy I thought they were pretty good. 

 

Terminators yeah overall any terminator type unit is.... pretty mediocre, the extra wounds nice until they have a dozen mult-damage weapons pointed at them. 

If a termies base cost was 30 or less + gear they would be far better options overall. 

[Skerr]

I have yet to use one in 8th or period, don't own on, but want to.  I was thinking of getting an Achilles Land Raider for its 4++ and mortal wound primary weapon.  Rules seem to fit our theme.  Slap some pre-heresy door (they got the rhino) or heresy doors and some other bitz as well to 1000 sons it up.  Is there any pretext in pre heresy fluff for LR types we used back then?

 

LR seems so much better than this edition benefiting from 360 shooting, high wounds, increased output of shots (I think on some load outs).  Is it the points sink that turns people off?

 

I was really hoping for like a Sekehmet Conclave strat that boosted our inv for a turn or something though I just cannot run my SOTs, i love em too much and I play in a beer and pretzels crows of old friends so I will be keeping at least five wiht SR and HF in most lists.

 

My first 2000 point list has like 9 psychers in it. (DP, Ahri, 2 Exalted, 2 Aspiring, 1 SOT, 2 Shaman,)  How are folks feeling about doubling up on certain powers with 2-3 psychers that can acess them.  with access to this many psychers and spells I an not too concerned with more than one character knowing Doombolt or Death hex for example.  I like idea in Matched play of having the option to let either or the other use the applicable spell depending upon circumstance. seems a bounty of spells to have on hand...

[Sonoftherubric21]

I Dont think doubling up is super crucial now, we have access to spell-swap strategem.  If you dont want to spend extra CP to swap, yes doubling ups a pretty good idea especially with how many slots we have. 

[Skerr]

Its a good option and does not feel like a waste if you need to is what I am saying.

 

I am feeling shades of 7th when our HQs did most of the heavy lifting. I am not saying they are going to due most of the heavy lifting now but it will be hard for me not to pack in multiple spell casters. I went ahead a got the data cards to keep track.

 

I always wanted to run this in 7th,

 

Sekemet Conclave

 

DP w wings

 

3 Five man SOTs, 2 SR, 1 HWF, 3 HF

 

1 min Exalted Sorcerer

 

2-4 Tzangoors

 

3+ Spawn

 

Add other units based on points left and opponent. Brutes, preds etc...

 

Now a shaman, Enlightned and maybe another ES seem like a fun addition.

[Paladin777]

Agreed on the over-costedness of the SOT’s. All is dust is not as powerful as a full-time 4+ invulnerable save like cataphractii yet if I remember correctly, they cost less than 30 ppm minus upgrades. If not, they are certainly less than SOT’s.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Its a oood option and does not feel like a waste if you need to is what I am saying.

 

I am feeling shades of 7th when our HQs did most of the heavy lifting.  I am not saying they are going to due most of the heavy lifting now but it will be hard for me not to pack in multiple spell casters.  I went ahead a got the data cards to keep track.

 

I always wanted to run this in 7th,

 

Sekemet Conclave

 

DP w wings

 

3 Five man SOTs, 2 SR, 1 HWF, 3 HF

 

1 min Exalted Sorcerer

 

2-4 Tzangoors

 

3+ Spawn

 

Add other units based on points left and opponent.  Brutes, preds etc...

 

Now a shaman, Enlightned and maybe another ES seem like a fun addition.

 

The thing I have found is that SOT and Rubrics TOGETHER are redundant; but at least in my local meta my "Scarab Occult Spam" list works......pretty freaking well actually. 

 

I have taken the list 3 times, I have won twice and tied once. Never a straight loss. and this was BEFORE codex. 

 

10 man unit of SOT, all 4 weapons.

and two of your five mans, both weapons (as per most people id imagine) 

The HQ slots were ahriman on disc, and a Daemon Prince (because pre book you were hamstrung to these choices with no good alternatives) with the third optional being a Terminator Sorcerer depending on points level. 

 

The remainder of the list was daemon engines and walkers. 

 

When the list hits the table its multiple deepstrikes that hit like trucks, and this was BEFORE VOTLW or Mutalith auras or any kind of other bonuses.  

 

Now? This list stands to be even more viable, maybe even in a semi-competetive meta, those squads deepstrike together, delete any of infantry sitting out in the open, cripple some vehicle or "weaker" vehicles, VOTLW the big 10 man, and if possible toss out some buffs while the daemon engines rolls up the table ready for bare. 

 

If you spend all your time and multi-damage weapons kill Scarab Occult? That means the engines will get to you un-molested.  But if you kill off the engines? youve got even more inferno shells hitting you in the face combined with decent Melee. 

 

I do love my Scarab Occult, and I have found this list to be fairly decent in most circumstances barring a turn 1 tabling of all your engines (incredibly unlikely) 

 

This list IS command point light however, mine only coming in at 5 before any strats are spent or relics are taken, so the helm on prince or exalted is a *requirement* for this list type. 

 

[Sonoftherubric21]

Agreed on the over-costedness of the SOT’s. All is dust is not as powerful as a full-time 4+ invulnerable save like cataphractii yet if I remember correctly, they cost less than 30 ppm minus upgrades. If not, they are certainly less than SOT’s.

 

We pay 2 points for All is Dust. 

 

TWO POINTS.  

 

The standard Chaos Terminator before gear is 31 points. ours are 33.  Same statline. 

 

All is dust, costs us 2 points, good enough for what it is. 

 

By comparison Rubrics are paying 5 for All is Dust, basic space marines being 13, ours 18. 

 

Id say SOT are in an okay spot, the reason they suffer is the same reason all Terminators suffer; they are Terminators in 8th edition. Either you take none, or you take a ton, it doesnt really work doing anything in between with them unfortunately. 1 squad gets blasted by D2 weapons and shot off table. 

[Panzer]

Yeah but the thing is that the standard Terminator is already overcosted as is. :D

[Minsc]

Yeah All is Dust is easily worth 2 ppm on Terminators. A 5 man squad can easily get into cover for an amazing (or horrific, depending on what side you're on) 0+/4++ save.

 

It's worth nothing that SOT's and Rubrics have -1M compared to regular Terminators and Marines, so All is Dust probably costs more.
On the flipside we do get psykers as sergeants for free. 

[Skerr]

The vortex, mix of demon engines and brutes seeems to fit well in the dp, termie, tzangoor list imo but ymmmv.

[Sonoftherubric21]

The vortex, mix of demon engines and brutes seeems to fit well in the dp, termie, tzangoor list imo but ymmmv.

 

I will most definitely be using an Exalted with Seers bane in this list in the future. He can dig out scarab occult if they are drowning, or ace a character that is very dangerous to them with a D2/3+ weapon. 

 

As well as the Terminator Sorcerer because that free +1 on the first cast of his will be crucial in this list. 

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

I'm really excited with this release the closer it comes. I wish that there was a stratagem that increased a squad of rubric marines invulnerable save for a fight phase or shooting phase to show how tough they are and to just to give them one. That said the change discipline while tough to cast has some great powers and really fixes my main issue with Aspiring Sorcerers.

 

I mostly plan on allying my sons to daemons for this edition, I have tzaangors and I like how they look on discs but they models are fragile, and I think they're over rated right now. They are a glass cannon unit, in an edition that requires you to have a plan for dealing with chaff. If this edition rewarded players enough to stay in one codex fraction it would be different but they don't which is more of a complaint for 8th in general than this particular book. 

[Zodd1888]

The current list I'm looking at is 90 models and 158 wounds. 60 Tzaangors, 10 Rubrics, 9 Boats, 2 Mutaliths, a Disco Pred, Shaman, and my HQ's. This list is mainly based around boosting Tzaangors with Mutalith buffs to multi-charge and wipe squads with Cycle/VotLW.

 

I've got to figure out a way to use Rubrics though. I know it'll be with flamers, as I'd almost always prefer to use SOT if I'm just going bolters, but it's such a big cost. I'll fiddle with numbers until I'm happy.

[Panzer]

I have yet to use one in 8th or period, don't own on, but want to.  I was thinking of getting an Achilles Land Raider for its 4++ and mortal wound primary weapon.  Rules seem to fit our theme.  Slap some pre-heresy door (they got the rhino) or heresy doors and some other bitz as well to 1000 sons it up.  Is there any pretext in pre heresy fluff for LR types we used back then?

 

LR seems so much better than this edition benefiting from 360 shooting, high wounds, increased output of shots (I think on some load outs).  Is it the points sink that turns people off?

The problem with the Landraider is...what is it supposed to do? Predators are better for shooting and Rhinos better for transporting for their cost. Also for transport duties it wants to be as close to the enemy as fast as possible while that works against its role as gun platform and vice versa. Not being able to Fly to fall back and keep shooting doesn't help its dual-role either.

The only thing the LR has going for it is durability and against the actual tank wrecking weapons it's not that much more durable.