Angelus no more... Malevolence is Now!

[1ncarnadine]

There was a map of stable warp routes as of 010.M31 at last year's Weekender that might be useful for this discussion. It can be hard to read that image, but if you squint you can see that the Nostramo and Thramas sectors are close but that there are no stable warp routes directly between them. But tellingly, there are also no severe warp storms between them. Warp storms are the blotches, where green blotches are old, persistent warp storms (e.g. the Maelstrom and Eye), while the red are generally part of the Ruinstorm & the trauma of the Heresy.

 

But you can kind of see how the Dark Angels could get trapped with the Night Lords up there. You can see the path that both they and the Blood Angels were forced to take down to Imperium Secundus, as the route through Honourum is cut off by storms.

 

I think it's also worth pointing out how close Paramar is to both Chondax and Prospero, and how Paramar sits at a massive intersection. The bulk of the Alpha Legion was in position for Chondax and Alaxxes right away. 

[Marshal Rohr]

There was a map of stable warp routes as of 010.M31 at last year's Weekender that might be useful for this discussion. It can be hard to read that image, but if you squint you can see that the Nostramo and Thramas sectors are close but that there are no stable warp routes directly between them. But tellingly, there are also no severe warp storms between them. Warp storms are the blotches, where green blotches are old, persistent warp storms (e.g. the Maelstrom and Eye), while the red are generally part of the Ruinstorm & the trauma of the Heresy.

 

But you can kind of see how the Dark Angels could get trapped with the Night Lords up there. You can see the path that both they and the Blood Angels were forced to take down to Imperium Secundus, as the route through Honourum is cut off by storms.

 

I think it's also worth pointing out how close Paramar is to both Chondax and Prospero, and how Paramar sits at a massive intersection. The bulk of the Alpha Legion was in position for Chondax and Alaxxes right away.

Makes me wonder where Beta-Garmon is and what other gems they are hiding from us.

[Laughingman]

Any word on the Daemon list in malevolence? Is it likely to be a copy-paste of 7th edition daemon codex, or are they purpose building a daemon list to be vastly different? 

[1ncarnadine]

It's looking like it could be a pretty different list. The units themselves may be similar (hard to change Bloodthirsters), but the army-wide rules, how instability works with the Ruinstorm, the way they score objectives, etc, may all be adjusted. Or not. It sounds like they still have a lot of play-testing to do.

[carlisimo]

It doesn’t sound like they’re very far into the rules, but they also said they wanted to emphasize how little the Imperium knows about them. So you’ll still have the familiar daemon types but they won’t be identified as being associated with each of the four gods.

 

They’re hoping to find a different way to deploy them (not deep strike) while somehow making them less vulnerable to shooting.

[m_r_parker]

Yeah Daemon rules are going to be different to how we’ve seen them in 40k. As mentioned above, there’s a lot more ignorance of Daemons and as such you’re going to see more generalised lesser and greater Daemons, and more the n terms of ‘upgrades’ to make them more specific. They also mentioned trying to incorporate more of the recent BL lore into the mechanics, like them being less effected by contemporary ranged weapons but being more succeptable to melee weapons.

[Charlo]

Yeah Daemon rules are going to be different to how we’ve seen them in 40k. As mentioned above, there’s a lot more ignorance of Daemons and as such you’re going to see more generalised lesser and greater Daemons, and more the n terms of ‘upgrades’ to make them more specific. They also mentioned trying to incorporate more of the recent BL lore into the mechanics, like them being less effected by contemporary ranged weapons but being more succeptable to melee weapons.

 

That is very cool, but hopefully won't lead to "oh you have guns? SORRY!"

 

Lot's of cool Daemon characters in the Heresy, exciting times!

[Riptor]

 

Yeah Daemon rules are going to be different to how we’ve seen them in 40k. As mentioned above, there’s a lot more ignorance of Daemons and as such you’re going to see more generalised lesser and greater Daemons, and more the n terms of ‘upgrades’ to make them more specific. They also mentioned trying to incorporate more of the recent BL lore into the mechanics, like them being less effected by contemporary ranged weapons but being more succeptable to melee weapons.

 

That is very cool, but hopefully won't lead to "oh you have guns? SORRY!"

 

Lot's of cool Daemon characters in the Heresy, exciting times!

 

 

I am hoping that will translate to tabletop as something like a contemptors 'X' invun save when being shot at, 'X-1 (or I suppose, X+1 technically) save in close combat'. Nice, simple way to represent this background without totally neutering shooting forces against them.

[b1soul]

I think it'd be crazy not to do the Second Battle of Prospero for the WS (where the warrior lodges try to turn the legion to Horus's side and they fight each other) because so little happened at Chondax. Either way, that leaves the next four years (fighting alone behind enemy lines before finding a way to Terra, often against an increasingly chaotic IIIrd legion) for a future book.

Looking forward to that a lot

[rendingon1+]

Only it was not a battle so no, I hope FW will focus on something else.

[bluntblade]

It was a battle. The Scars had fighting across their fleet and then ploughed straight into a battle with the Death Guard. However, I don't feel there's any great need for it to feature in the FW books.

[carlisimo]

It was a battle. The Scars had fighting across their fleet and then ploughed straight into a battle with the Death Guard. However, I don't feel there's any great need for it to feature in the FW books.

But it’s their biggest battle in the first third of the Heresy - if not that, what is FW going to write about? A segment about just Chondax would either be about orks or be pretty empty.

[b1soul]

There's neither more nor less "need" for Prospero 2 to be featured...relative to the extra stuff in Conquest or Retribution.

 

One could even argue that Prospero 2 is more Heresy-relevant than Chondax.

[Noserenda]

Especially as there are no Orks on Chondax

Edit: Or Ork armies in 30k ;) 

[rendingon1+]

It was a battle. The Scars had fighting across their fleet and then ploughed straight into a battle with the Death Guard. However, I don't feel there's any great need for it to feature in the FW books.

I wouldn't call it a battle still. As far as I'am aware loses were super minimal (if any, how many ships were destroyed?) and Scars foccused only on the events on Swordstorm. Yes, there was infighting in the fleet but I wouldn't call it WS Istvaan. Events on the surface - nothing more than a duel. Doesn't sound like a material for the book IMHO.

FW will definitely give us something worthy however, after all they conjured dozens of cool stories out of nothing. Nothing existed about Xana, Paramar, Phall or events in Conquest before and they managed to do masterpieces.

[bluntblade]

I'm hoping we get an ambush by the Scars on a traitor force, the Legion fighting almost full-scale.

[b1soul]

I wouldn't call it a battle still.

I understand your sentiment...but Wraight calls it a "battle":

 

TWENTY-THREE

 

Reckoning

 

Recovery

 

The hunt

 

The Second Battle of Prospero did not match the horror of the first, for the Death Guard had come to oversee the incorporation of an ally, not embark upon a protracted void conflict. The two fleets grappled together as they pulled away from Prospero, locked in a web of broadsides and attack runs. Under Mortarion’s leadership, the smaller XIV Legion forces rallied enough to withdraw from the system intact, but they could match neither the speed nor the firepower of the renewed White Scars. The battle moved steadily out of the system until Mortarion finally gave the order to disengage and make for the jump-points. Leaving a trail of fire and plasma in their wake, the Death Guard entered the warp, abandoning local space to the control of the Khan.

 

With the enemy driven from Prospero, the V Legion halted pursuit. The fleet mustered once more, holding position in loose formation, just as it had done at Chondax. Some ships still ran with dissension, and the process of restoring order was neither quick nor without violence.

 

 

This is almost a blank page for FW to fill in. We just know that neither side suffered heavy losses...but that doesn't mean losses were insignificant

[rendingon1+]

It is not a blank page because, as you quoted, we have Scars. I think this "battle" will not feature simply because it's just WS vs WS with some not very impresive DG detachment that run away. In every black book events involve two sides of the conflict which do not belong to the same faction. This shouldn't be an exception. A mention in the Legion fluff, sure, since it's quite important (sagyar mazan for example) but not a battle like Xana or Phall.

[carlisimo]

It is not a blank page because, as you quoted, we have Scars. I think this "battle" will not feature simply because it's just WS vs WS with some not very impresive DG detachment that run away. In every black book events involve two sides of the conflict which do not belong to the same faction. This shouldn't be an exception. A mention in the Legion fluff, sure, since it's quite important (sagyar mazan for example) but not a battle like Xana or Phall.

Don’t forget Book 1…

 

I’ve recently heard a couple of other perspectives from people at the Weekender, like from people who didn’t tune out after the Sanguinius talk in that seminar, and they confirmed that FW only mentioned Chondax. More importantly, the FW guys didn’t sound like they had any information to give, and came across as being in the wishlisting phase themselves. The implication for both legions was that only their entry into the Heresy would be covered - no Imperium Secundus for the Blood Angels, and presumably neither of the big battles in The Path of Heaven for the White Scars.

 

I feel the Second Battle of Prospero will end up being their most significant battle until Callium Gate, and that it’s critical for understanding their role in the war. I hope it makes it in. But I’m worried that if it doesn’t, it won’t be because they have something bigger in mind. I just don’t have very high expectations because it sounds like FW is still struggling a bit.

[Huggtand]

I think that they will focus on earlier new battles leading up to the heresy for WS and then feature their harrying of the traitors in a later campaign book.

[rendingon1+]

Istvaan III is something completely different.

I have faith in FW.

[b1soul]

@rendington

 

It's almost a blank page as the quoted passage from Scars is vague. It's a skeleton waiting to be fleshed out,if FW so chooses

[bluntblade]

Or they could address the Scars' three profitable years of reaving against the Traitors. That'd be a suitable place to bring in some daemon shizzle

[bluntblade]

Been thinking some more... now what I'm about to say is spoilerific for PoH and Scars, so be advised.

 

 

 

I'd like some tidbits to inform Ganzorig and Qin Fai. The first we heard of them was their appearance as the new Noyan-Khans, it'd be good to get some background on them in an exemplary battle or two.

[b1soul]

Some news...

 

www.battlebunnies.blogspot.com/2018/05/new-models-and-malevolence-seminar.html?m=1