Angelus no more... Malevolence is Now!

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Allow me to play with words a little, not aiming in any particular direction, but more putting this out there as food for thoughts all around:

 

Problems can potentially arise due to the  limitations  of players' creativity and play-style and from the  ugliness  that is WAAC lists.  

 

 

(As a partially-related example, WHFB pick-up games and tourneys both have become a lot more laid back since GW killed it off and people are not clogging up the games with WAAC lists.)  

[Master Sheol]

Allow me to play with words a little, not aiming in any particular direction, but more putting this out there as food for thoughts all around:

 

Problems can potentially arise due to the  limitations  of players' creativity and play-style and from the  ugliness  that is WAAC lists.  

 

 

(As a partially-related example, WHFB pick-up games and tourneys both have become a lot more laid back since GW killed it off and people are not clogging up the games with WAAC lists.)  

Yes... but try to play a TS list according to fluff so psyker heavy

in 7th edition psykers are overpowered and usual 30K SM list dont have so much protection against psykers

Now i am not playing WAAC if i put more than one psyker in a TS list but the 7th edition ruleset is broken when it comes to psykers rules

 

So to play a decent game with a TS list i must limit myself and play less psykers than it would be according to fluff...

Wasnt HH rules meant to be for narrative play? Is narrative to play an army limiting their main charateristic just because the rules are broken?

[Spiritual Liege]

 

Allow me to play with words a little, not aiming in any particular direction, but more putting this out there as food for thoughts all around:

 

Problems can potentially arise due to the  limitations  of players' creativity and play-style and from the  ugliness  that is WAAC lists.  

 

 

(As a partially-related example, WHFB pick-up games and tourneys both have become a lot more laid back since GW killed it off and people are not clogging up the games with WAAC lists.)  

Yes... but try to play a TS list according to fluff so psyker heavy

in 7th edition psykers are overpowered and usual 30K SM list dont have so much protection against psykers

Now i am not playing WAAC if i put more than one psyker in a TS list but the 7th edition ruleset is broken when it comes to psykers rules

 

So to play a decent game with a TS list i must limit myself and play less psykers than it would be according to fluff...

Wasnt HH rules meant to be for narrative play? Is narrative to play an army limiting their main charateristic just because the rules are broken?

 

That is not the problem. If you go with easier disciplines like Telekinesis or Pyromancy and don't abuse broken stuff like Magnus and his D (you can ofc play him, but just don't throw around 3d6 auto s D hits) or Raptora on every single unit, they are not unfair at all.

[Master Sheol]

 

 

 

 

Allow me to play with words a little, not aiming in any particular direction, but more putting this out there as food for thoughts all around:

 

Problems can potentially arise due to the limitations of players' creativity and play-style and from the ugliness that is WAAC lists.

 

 

(As a partially-related example, WHFB pick-up games and tourneys both have become a lot more laid back since GW killed it off and people are not clogging up the games with WAAC lists.)

Yes... but try to play a TS list according to fluff so psyker heavy

in 7th edition psykers are overpowered and usual 30K SM list dont have so much protection against psykers

Now i am not playing WAAC if i put more than one psyker in a TS list but the 7th edition ruleset is broken when it comes to psykers rules

 

So to play a decent game with a TS list i must limit myself and play less psykers than it would be according to fluff...

Wasnt HH rules meant to be for narrative play? Is narrative to play an army limiting their main charateristic just because the rules are broken?

That is not the problem. If you go with easier disciplines like Telekinesis or Pyromancy and don't abuse broken stuff like Magnus and his D (you can ofc play him, but just don't throw around 3d6 auto s D hits) or Raptora on every single unit, they are not unfair at all.

If, if, if and again if

A game in wich YOU must limit yourself in building your list and applying your tactics on the field is a broken game

 

What makes HH special is the flavour and the entusiasm the community have around the project but about ruleset is a very poor one, let's face It ;)

[Gorgoff]

 

 

 

Allow me to play with words a little, not aiming in any particular direction, but more putting this out there as food for thoughts all around:

Problems can potentially arise due to the limitations of players' creativity and play-style and from the ugliness that is WAAC lists. (As a partially-related example, WHFB pick-up games and tourneys both have become a lot more laid back since GW killed it off and people are not clogging up the games with WAAC lists.)

Yes... but try to play a TS list according to fluff so psyker heavy

in 7th edition psykers are overpowered and usual 30K SM list dont have so much protection against psykers

Now i am not playing WAAC if i put more than one psyker in a TS list but the 7th edition ruleset is broken when it comes to psykers rules

So to play a decent game with a TS list i must limit myself and play less psykers than it would be according to fluff...

Wasnt HH rules meant to be for narrative play? Is narrative to play an army limiting their main charateristic just because the rules are broken?

That is not the problem. If you go with easier disciplines like Telekinesis or Pyromancy and don't abuse broken stuff like Magnus and his D (you can ofc play him, but just don't throw around 3d6 auto s D hits) or Raptora on every single unit, they are not unfair at all.

If, if, if and again if

A game in wich YOU must limit yourself in building your list and applying your tactics on the field is a broken game

What makes HH special is the flavour and the entusiasm the community have around the project but about ruleset is a very poor one, let's face It ;)

Not the Core Rules are poor.

The TS rules are poor.

And by the way. I have to restrain myself whenever I play IW just like everybody else has to. But we don't see that as restrain. We happily do so because we play the game together and not against each other. That is part of the fun.

I never understood why people think that there is any game which is so perfect that you can play any army.

It isn't.

It wasn't the case in 2nd edition, which is still the Cadillac of tabletopping, not in 3th, not in 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th and definitely not in 8th.

 

7th edition has not very good rules for psykers because it is so hard to protect your army from them, but it becomes only a problem if facing TS. Or to be more precise:

Facing TS players who think that tuning their list a little bit down is impossible because it would ruin their narrative. ;)

 

The problem at the basis of HH is that is based on 7th edition that is one of the worst ever for 40k

While we are playing SM vs SM it still works but when we introduce something in the mix all the limitations and ugliness of the 7th edition comes alive

 

Again.

Not the rules are bad but the balancing.

If you play legion against legion it is totally fine because the game is based around T4 against S4. That way it works good and that way the army list is build.

But then we have abusive army list like Talons of the Emperor, which has broken rules like the shields which :cusss with the to hit role or TS, which gives away broken buffs like candy at christmas eve.

Or just look at Imperialia Militia.

It is ok although a little bit limited UNTILL you take Cult Horde and Tainted Flesh. If you go down that road it is a horrible broken list.

Is that because the core rules are crap?

No, it is all about balancing the different factions and with book seven they made terrible mistakes on that regard.

 

Allow me to play with words a little, not aiming in any particular direction, but more putting this out there as food for thoughts all around:

 

Problems can potentially arise due to the  limitations  of players' creativity and play-style and from the  ugliness  that is WAAC lists.  

 

 

(As a partially-related example, WHFB pick-up games and tourneys both have become a lot more laid back since GW killed it off and people are not clogging up the games with WAAC lists.)  

That is so true.

WAAC players ruin the game, ruin every game for everyone except themselves.

For instance we in our gaming group have no deathstars like lots of you guys are suffering from. Only 4 of us (we are around 12 people) even have a Spartan. Noone play Phosphex except on Leviathans.

[gizur]

Sign

 

I played TS vs IF 2 days ago and it was a very very close game.

The first rule in our club is: do you like to play against your own army?

With this simple question in mind and a little conversation between the players all over fun and Good games are possible.

[Master Sheol]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/06/08/the-futures-bright-for-the-age-of-darkness/

 

The future is LCTB! :D

[Gorgoff]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/06/08/the-futures-bright-for-the-age-of-darkness/

 

The future is LCTB! :D

Huh?

[Hfran Morkai]

I think Sheol was making a joke.

 

Orange is an old UK phone network whose slogan was: The future's bright, the future's Orange. Glad to see the cover though.

[Master Sheol]

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/06/08/the-futures-bright-for-the-age-of-darkness/

 

The future is LCTB! :D

Huh?

Just a joke

The article says future is bright for AoD but if you go to FW site a lot of the range needed to play in 30K is going LCTB

:D

I love British sense of humor :D

[m0nolith]

It really seems to me that the vast majority of players that want Heresy to go to 8th either want that because there are no true Heresy players where they are and they want to play against 40k armies, which fair enough I totally understand, or they’re players who associate 7th ed 40k with 7th ed 30k.

 

Here’s a popular option amongst 30k players; 7th ed 40k is NOT 7th ed Heresy.

7th ed is actually a great edition, and it was the terrible Codexes and Formations that ruined 7th ed for 40k, making it that horrible abomination that it was at the end of its lifespan.

 

I’m not a fan of 8th ed, it’s too much like a board game to me and it’s oversimplified, not to mention the other problems with it that keep getting patched over every few months. Also, without a doubt 7th has its own problems, but in my opinion even with those in mind I still significantly prefer 7th over 8th for Heresy

 

If 8th is your bag, cool! I’m happy for you and that you have a game you enjoy, but please let me enjoy 30k with a set of rules that I like without insisting that it too should have the rules you prefer. You already have a game. It’s not right being so entitled to insist on having two games, leaving people like me with none?

 

Edit: At the end of the day it’s about the Market, and surprise surprise, there are people like me out there who are willing to spend our hard earned dollars, pounds, rubles, pesos ect ect on a gaming system that used 7th ed, and we are large enough as a community to make it viable and profitable for FW to keep doing what it’s doing.

GW realizes that if they had Heresy move to 8th, a lot of those people would move to another gaming system not owned by GW, losing out on all that money. They made the right financial decision I think to cater to a different segment of the player base, while those who like 8th are already buying into 40k 8th ed mainstay armies.

 

So I’m happy Heresy and Malevolence is staying with AoD 1st ed rules for the foreseeable future, and I hope when AoD 2ed comes, it’s it’s own game though and though, maybe a mix of the best parts of each system. Maybe 7th predominantly with cool things like split fire and multi units in a single transport. One can hope I guess.

[Marshal Loss]

I'll support whatever FW does, but I'm happy they're sticking with 7th as it's already a good game. My dream would be for AP modifiers to make it into 30k though. I've always found myself not taking things like swords and mauls because I know they're inevitably going to bounce off Terminators or a solitary artificer armour wearing sergeant. I hope they consider bringing this mechanic into the game eventually.

[depthcharge12]

I'll support whatever FW does, but I'm happy they're sticking with 7th as it's already a good game. My dream would be for AP modifiers to make it into 30k though. I've always found myself not taking things like swords and mauls because I know they're inevitably going to bounce off Terminators or a solitary artificer armour wearing sergeant. I hope they consider bringing this mechanic into the game eventually.

That and the change to vehicles/MC. It’s silly how durable Castellax are when a regular boxnaught dies to a stiff breeze or a depleted squad of marines with krak grenades. I don’t want to make this into a “things that need changing” thread/post but there are some major discrepancies that make the game a pain to play if you’re not running AP2 arms race. In 8th, I don’t feel terrible using Autocannons, heavy flamers, swords, and heavy bolters. In the Heresy, they just bounce off anything and everything and the opponent pats you on the back for taking them :P

[Marshal Loss]

The increased durability is nice, but armour facing is too important to give up imo, it's one of my biggest qualms with 8th. But yeah let's avoid turning this into a wishlist thread

[Vogon]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/06/08/the-futures-bright-for-the-age-of-darkness/

The future is LCTB! :D

With this being show now and as “Coming Soon” what are the odds of it being available to buy at the Open Day in July? If it is it will make my lad very happy.

 

Cheers

 

Vogon

[1ncarnadine]

 

With this being show now and as “Coming Soon” what are the odds of it being available to buy at the Open Day in July? If it is it will make my lad very happy.

 

Cheers

 

Vogon

 

 

For Malevolence? It definitely won't see release by July, unfortunately. It's still being written. The preview picture of the book is probably a digital mock-up to show off their finalized cover art.

[Master Sheol]

 

 

With this being show now and as “Coming Soon” what are the odds of it being available to buy at the Open Day in July? If it is it will make my lad very happy.

 

Cheers

 

Vogon

 

For Malevolence? It definitely won't see release by July, unfortunately. It's still being written. The preview picture of the book is probably a digital mock-up to show off their finalized cover art.

Totally

There is a book about Talons of the Emperor 40K before Malevolence It seems and we are already in June so i wouldn't expect Malevolence before end of 2018

A more realistic release window is Q1/Q2 2019

[Vogon]

 

 

With this being show now and as “Coming Soon” what are the odds of it being available to buy at the Open Day in July? If it is it will make my lad very happy.

Cheers

Vogon

For Malevolence? It definitely won't see release by July, unfortunately. It's still being written. The preview picture of the book is probably a digital mock-up to show off their finalized cover art.

Totally

There is a book about Talons of the Emperor 40K before Malevolence It seems and we are already in June so i wouldn't expect Malevolence before end of 2018

A more realistic release window is Q1/Q2 2019

That’s really not what I wanted to hear, but at least we know it’s on the way.

 

Cheers

 

Vogon

[Gorgoff]

So... what kind of units will BA and WS get?

[Slips]

So... what kind of units will BA and WS get?

BA are confirmed as getting a Destroyer Unit that will seemingly be a testbed unit for updating Legion Destroyers.

 

Otherwise, its anyones guess though going off the Legion in questions stereotype, so to speak, will probably give you a good indication of what you'd be getting.

 

But its FW so they might give you a White Scars artillery unit, for example.

[Marshal Loss]

No WS artillery unit. As usual FW will make an effort to counter stereotypes and show the Legions are well-rounded though. For White Scars:

 

 

bit of info from geek fest about the Scars. A set of unique units are being play tested at the moment. A shock assault jetbike unit, up armoured with lances, crash into the enemy with AP2 lances, bug out and repeat. A terminator Keshig. Not the usual keshig we know from the books but a more defensive unit, designed as a sort of distraction unit, a punishment/vaulenteer tying to prove himself or atone for something, where you drop/deepstrike into the middle of the enemy, cause a distraction and hold the ground while the faster units outflank and pick the enemy apart. They didn't want to do a standard body guard keshig as you can do that with normal terminators or command squads.
The third was a lightning claw wielding sneaky power armour squad.
Finally 2 named characters and Jaghatai on foot and on a jetbike.
Sounds very cool.
There was even talk of a new speeder geared for close range heavy anti infantry fire and better front armour. No confirm on this though.
They're hoping to have the book ready for the weekender."

 

Sent to me by the ever-noble LetsYouDown, so credit to him & the original source.

 

To the best of my knowledge, all that is confirmed for BA are Destroyers ("Host of Sacrifice"). But I fully expect there to be a Sanguinary Guard unit as well, albeit one heavily divergent from what we see in 40k.

[Gorgoff]

Brothers, thank you very much. I didn't know that. :)

[Charlo]

Aye, very keen to see the SG 10,000 years prior. From what we know the 40k iteration are all based around Azkellion, as opposed to the actualy 30k wargear :)

[Supe robot gangster #1]

I’m surprised there hasn’t been much discussion about the daemon list! What do we all think it’ll be like? I’ve read somewhere (possibly here, I can’t remember) that the list won’t have god specific daemons, as the imperium didn’t know as much about them as they do in 40k. Why do we all think they will do with them then? Generic daemon stat with an upgrade to certain stats for a cost to represent different aligned daemons? Maybe a rite of war type gig, or possibly even a providence of war ala imperialis militia?

[depthcharge12]

I’m surprised there hasn’t been much discussion about the daemon list! What do we all think it’ll be like? I’ve read somewhere (possibly here, I can’t remember) that the list won’t have god specific daemons, as the imperium didn’t know as much about them as they do in 40k. Why do we all think they will do with them then? Generic daemon stat with an upgrade to certain stats for a cost to represent different aligned daemons? Maybe a rite of war type gig, or possibly even a providence of war ala imperialis militia?

I think something to consider is that this era is one of the very few that Chaos bands together as a whole. More than likely it’ll have stratified daemons in building a list - x number of greater daemons (not god specific ones) per units of lesser daemons etc etc