How are your Custodes doing?

[swordofmandulis]

I think you are handicapping yourself at 1500pts by bringing 3 HQ's. You can drop Valoris and swap a bike captain for a foot captain and use him to support your 3 squads, then bring in a squad of vertus praetors. Alternatively keep the 2 bike captains and swap Valoris for a terminator squad, that will make your opponent concerned about deepstriking. I also think the callidus assassin is so badly neutered now you can't deepstrike her turn 1, which means you either start her on the table no where near anything she can kill, or you infiltrate her and lose the first turn ability with doubling the cost of strats. An eversor would be my preference there, instant threat when they come on as the 3D6 charge is no joke.

 

My list would be

 

Foot captain

Bike captain

 

3 x 3 guard

 

3 bikes

 

Vexilla

 

Vindi

Eversor

Culexus.

[rcoon]

Had my first loss with my Bikes n Baneblade list, literally lost turn 1.

 

I ran 3 x 3 Vertus Praetors plus 3 HQ bikes with assorted relics and a Vexilla thrown in for turn 1 screening. Then ran my Shadowsword Supreme Command detachment with psykers to provide protection, enginseer for the heals and a commisar to execute psykers should anything untoward happen.

 

My opponent was running Three big boy knights - 1 warlord with sword and fist, 1 with the mini volcano canon and 1 with a big gatling gun and missile launchers etc. He then ran 2 glaives and 2 helverins, plus assorted skitarii for CP.

 

He won the roll for 1st turn and the following happened: volcano knight proceeds to knock my baneblade down to its lowest bracket with assorted guns plus the helverins managed to get in range for some extra hammering. His warlord titan moved and charged into a squad of bikes and my warlord, proceeded to kill all the bikes and knock my warlord down to about 2 wounds. His other Knight shot everything at another squad of bikes wiping out all but one bike with 2 wounds.

 

Start of my turn I heal the baneblade with a techpriest so im not hitting on 6s, both psykers fail their rolls. Baneblade shoots at a knight and does 3 wounds. Yes, a volcano canon and FOUR lascanons knocked off THREE wounds only. My remnant bikes shoot his entire battalion of troops to death and then charge and get into melee with his warlord knight. I take off 13 wounds between 1 squad and a warlord, and then he retaliates and kills my warlord and 2 bikes. I'm left with a commissar, 2 bikes, a paperweight baneblade and a vexilla. Oh, and two psykers who thus far have done nothing.

 

My opponent still has 2 helverins untouched, 2 warglaives untouched, 2 Knight's with Big Guns untouched and a Warlord Knight with half his wounds left in melee with my last bike.

 

Scooped and left. How in the hell are Custodes supposed to deal with that much long range firepower and sheer wound count.

Edited October 11, 2018 by rcoon

[shanewatts]

Well the Shadowsword vs Castellan is a losing match-up, but that isn't a Custodes problem.

 

Did you have any Custodes infantry near your bikes/warlord when the knight charged you turn 1?

[rcoon]

Well the Shadowsword vs Castellan is a losing match-up, but that isn't a Custodes problem.

 

Did you have any Custodes infantry near your bikes/warlord when the knight charged you turn 1?

In a 2K game with a Shadowsword and 12 bikes I didn't have points for any infantry.

[shanewatts]

So no vexilla either?

[rcoon]

So no vexilla either?

Yeah I mentioned a single vexilla to screen my units turn 1. He screened a hell of a lot of shooting but it didn't help much.

Edited October 11, 2018 by rcoon

[shanewatts]

The reason I ask about having an infantry unit nearby, if it was within 12" of that knight prior to its charge you could have tanglefoot grenade it. (So if your vexilla was nearby, you could have.) Custodes best way of dealing with a turn 1 charging knight is to tanglefoot, and if that fails Stooping dive, hopefully with a larger unit.

Edited October 11, 2018 by shanewatts

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Sorry to hear about your loss... sounds like going first was huge. Was there any line of sight blocking terrain in your deployment zone ?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I’ve been doing well locally... made into the top division for One league and the top playoff division for another. Had to win back to back games to do it.

[rcoon]

The reason I ask about having an infantry unit nearby, if it was within 12" of that knight prior to its charge you could have tanglefoot grenade it. (So if your vexilla was nearby, you could have.) Custodes best way of dealing with a turn 1 charging knight is to tanglefoot, and if that fails Stooping dive, hopefully with a larger unit.

I had 4 CP left after Opening the Vaults and yes, I used both Tanglefoot grenade against the Knight and rolled a 1, and then Stooping Dived with a nearby bike unit against the knight which is how I dealt so many wounds to him.

 

Sorry to hear about your loss... sounds like going first was huge. Was there any line of sight blocking terrain in your deployment zone ?

Unfortunately the random deployment zone rolled was a big diagonal one. There were buildings but not in such a way that allowed much LoS blocking. I managed to keep my psykers, commissar and techpriest out of LoS, and I tried extremely hard to tuck the Shadowsword behin a building but it was just too big.

 

My opponent had something ridiculous like 14CP so he was just constantly using Rotate Ion shields once per turn and other Knight strategems that were painful. Me and this player have a joke of whoever wins the dice roll for going first wins and the other scoops. Every time we play, whomever goes first wins.

 

I think I'm gonna give up on the Shadowsword lists and start running pure custodes, the support package is too costly and the lack of CP kills me. Also running vanilla bikes doesn't seem that great, so I think I'll go for less bikes but as captains and just run some Allarus for deep striking and can opening power.

Edited October 11, 2018 by rcoon

[shanewatts]

Ironically enough bikes on the charge deal more damage to knights than Allarus do, from the reroll to wound and extra -1AP (Axes can get to the same AP, but require 1CP to do so.) In a combat that you didn't charge the Allarus will do better (but by less than you would think.)

 

Also biker units are better than captains in terms of offensive output, the only advantage the captains have is ability to hide with the character keyword and maybe a relic. But when 1 captain is the same cost as 1 and 2/3rds of a biker, you are losing out on attacks and shots pretty quickly.

 

Rcoon sounds like you made the right decisions, just got the wrong end of the stick that day. I have had really good experiences with biker spam in tournaments, but I have found knights to be one of our harder match-ups.

[rcoon]

I got the Shadowsword because my entire meta is dominated by vehicles. Most people hate playing against me, but the dude with knights isn't remotely bothered and I don't think he's lost a match against anyone. Nobody can deal with that sheer wound count.

[shanewatts]

Knights really struggle with horde armies, since they can't kill enough to take objectives. So direct your local friendly horde player to play him so he can take a loss.

[MeatGrinder]

Ive played a couple of more games lately and Im really starting to feel the need for the Lucky 32 Guard battalion. I've been using an admech battalion for a while, but I'm not getting a lot from them for the points Im spending on them. Double techpriest is pure tax, and ranger squads just dont have enough bodies to screen when I need them to. Even after the regen nerfs the Lucky 32 remain one of the best choices.

 

Other than that though Im looking at other forms of anti-tank to include. I've been running a neutroncrawler for a while now and its great, but the power creep is pretty apperant when compared to helverins. The telemon is really calling to me though.

[shanewatts]

I agree that even with the CP regen changes that the guard battalion is too good to pass up. Mobile screens that can hold backfield if needed.

 

I like the Telemon as well, but since it is a special FW beta unit I have to ask every TO if I can use it. That combined with the range advantage I have been leaning towards Helverins myself.

 

I have finally found a 2 match-ups I couldn't grind myself through using the bike spam list. Knights and triple riptide Tau. Recent GT I got knocked out of first place by triple riptides, right after beating the Castellan/BA/Guard list (pre-CP regen nerf too.) Got me thinking of how best to counter it and knights.

 

In these two matchups I have found you have to play the long game and not just grind your bikes in right away. Usually revolved around hiding my bikes out of LoS and taking objectives for a few turns. Popping out full aggression turn 4/5 and let them chew on the bikes for the last 2 turns. While this strategy has worked, it still has a gap in having trouble killing a unit in a turn if your bikes are hiding (a problem in ITC), so I have been looking at running 2 helverins to sit out of range and pick up kills while the bikes bide their time. Not sure if the few bikes I trade out for the Helverins will be worth it in the long run, but I am testing it out.

[MeatGrinder]

Just slamming the bikes in is working for you? I havent come up against knights at all yet, but its just a matter of time. Whats the list you use?

[shanewatts]

There is a little more finesse to it than that haha, but more or less. Most armies can't kill more than 5 in a single shooting phase. (Most)

 

List I have been running as follows (took 7th at NOVA with same list.) :

 

Custodes Outrider

bike cap w/hurricane - usually spent 1cp for auric aquilas

vexilla w/magnifica, misercordia

7 bikes w/hurricane

7 bikes w/hurricane

3 bikes w/hurricane

 

DKoK Battalion

field officer w/las pistol, chainsword - warlord (grand strat)

field officer w/las pistol, chainsword - relic (kurov's)

10 infantry w/10xlasgun

10 infantry w/10xlasgun

10 infantry w/10xlasgun

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

How are your games going now with the new FAQ ?

[shanewatts]

Fairly well, mostly the same. (Only got 2 games in so far, 3rd game today.) I have a less incidental CP to use, but was never really used a lot anyway. I think even with the CP regen changes I will still run grand strategist for the free re-roll and the few cp it will retain.

 

I know people are up in arms about the fly changes for charging, but I rarely was able to hop a unit with bikes anyway, the bases are huge. It really only impacts the charging over walls to ignore overwatch, which was very situational anyway. I haven't really seen any issue from this yet.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

It is nice to have the cheap chaff units for sure if nothing else. The changes to keyword Fly have not really affected my army either.

[Prot]

Well I’ve become frustrated with my Deathwatch and Ultramarines have been getting lots of playtime but I do miss my Custodes.

 

I’m not sure if this is just sheer stupidity on my part but I have accepted a challenge from a heinous Tau player. Normally my match ups are random so I still prefer an all comers list.

 

I do know he uses a Riptide or 2 and a Stormsurge for certain.

 

I was going to bring a very dynamic Guilliman Ultra list but I’m seriously thinking about taking my Telemon Dread out for this.

 

I always use the 2 x 10 shot arms to cost him at about 345.

 

I always use Trajann and only 3 bikes and usually 3 Allarus in my Battalion. What chance would you give me of winning this? Is this pure stupidity, or am I going to have fun?

 

I can always switch to my Ultramarines, I just wanted to bounce it off those of you that have played agsins5 stronger Tau lists like this. I haven’t played against tournament level Tau with Custodes at all yet.

[rcoon]

Well I’ve become frustrated with my Deathwatch and Ultramarines have been getting lots of playtime but I do miss my Custodes.

 

I’m not sure if this is just sheer stupidity on my part but I have accepted a challenge from a heinous Tau player. Normally my match ups are random so I still prefer an all comers list.

 

I do know he uses a Riptide or 2 and a Stormsurge for certain.

 

I was going to bring a very dynamic Guilliman Ultra list but I’m seriously thinking about taking my Telemon Dread out for this.

 

I always use the 2 x 10 shot arms to cost him at about 345.

 

I always use Trajann and only 3 bikes and usually 3 Allarus in my Battalion. What chance would you give me of winning this? Is this pure stupidity, or am I going to have fun?

 

I can always switch to my Ultramarines, I just wanted to bounce it off those of you that have played agsins5 stronger Tau lists like this. I haven’t played against tournament level Tau with Custodes at all yet.

I've been speaking to a dude who goes to ITC a lot and does extremely well with a list I feel is somewhat bizarre for 2K points and also doesn't entirely rely on masses of bikes. He places top most of the time so I guess he knows what he's doing. He's also the only pure custodes player I know who beats knights frequently. He did however insist that taking trajaan in any list is a mistake, and would rather take shield captains or even smash captains in his place. Anyway, his list:

 

Open the Vaults +1 Relic

 

Battalion

Shield Captain - Castellan Axe, Misericordia

Shiled Captain on Bike - Warlord (Superior Creation), Auric Aquilis, Hurricane Bolter

 

Custodian guard x3, Shield, Spear, Spear

Custodian guard x3, Shield, Spear, Spear

Custodian guard x3, Shield, Spear, Spear

 

Supreme Command

Shield Captain in Allarus - Castellan Axe, Misericordia

Shiled Captain on Bike - Hurricane Bolter

Shiled Captain on Bike - Hurricane Bolter

 

Vanguard

Shiled Captain on Bike - Eagle's Eye, Hurricane Bolter

 

Allarus Custodians x 4 - Castellan Axe

Vexillus Praetor - Guardian Spear, Vexilla Magnifica

Vexillus Praetor in Allarus - Misericordia, Vexilla Magnifica

 

He basically has three little armies, one blob of troops for marching, 1 blob of allarus to drop in the backlines and survive forever and open cans for days, and a bunch of shield captains on bikes to take points and harass the board. Last tournament he went 6-0, beating knights and K sons which seemed noteworthy.

Edited October 12, 2018 by rcoon

[Trunkello]

 

I've been speaking to a dude who goes to ITC a lot and does extremely well with a list I feel is somewhat bizarre for 2K points and also doesn't entirely rely on masses of bikes. He places top most of the time so I guess he knows what he's doing. He's also the only pure custodes player I know who beats knights frequently. He did however insist that taking trajaan in any list is a mistake, and would rather take shield captains or even smash captains in his place. Anyway, his list:

 

Open the Vaults +1 Relic

 

Battalion

Shield Captain - Castellan Axe, Misericordia

Shiled Captain on Bike - Warlord (Superior Creation), Auric Aquilis, Hurricane Bolter

 

Custodian guard x3, Shield, Spear, Spear

Custodian guard x3, Shield, Spear, Spear

Custodian guard x3, Shield, Spear, Spear

 

Supreme Command

Shield Captain in Allarus - Castellan Axe, Misericordia

Shiled Captain on Bike - Hurricane Bolter

Shiled Captain on Bike - Hurricane Bolter

 

Vanguard

Shiled Captain on Bike - Eagle's Eye, Hurricane Bolter

 

Allarus Custodians x 4 - Castellan Axe

Vexillus Praetor - Guardian Spear, Vexilla Magnifica

Vexillus Praetor in Allarus - Misericordia, Vexilla Magnifica

 

He basically has three little armies, one blob of troops for marching, 1 blob of allarus to drop in the backlines and survive forever and open cans for days, and a bunch of shield captains on bikes to take points and harass the board. Last tournament he went 6-0, beating knights and K sons which seemed noteworthy.

 

4 bike captains? isnt that illegal?

[Prot]

 

Well I’ve become frustrated with my Deathwatch and Ultramarines have been getting lots of playtime but I do miss my Custodes.

 

I’m not sure if this is just sheer stupidity on my part but I have accepted a challenge from a heinous Tau player. Normally my match ups are random so I still prefer an all comers list.

 

I do know he uses a Riptide or 2 and a Stormsurge for certain.

 

I was going to bring a very dynamic Guilliman Ultra list but I’m seriously thinking about taking my Telemon Dread out for this.

 

I always use the 2 x 10 shot arms to cost him at about 345.

 

I always use Trajann and only 3 bikes and usually 3 Allarus in my Battalion. What chance would you give me of winning this? Is this pure stupidity, or am I going to have fun?

 

I can always switch to my Ultramarines, I just wanted to bounce it off those of you that have played agsins5 stronger Tau lists like this. I haven’t played against tournament level Tau with Custodes at all yet.

I've been speaking to a dude who goes to ITC a lot and does extremely well with a list I feel is somewhat bizarre for 2K points and also doesn't entirely rely on masses of bikes. He places top most of the time so I guess he knows what he's doing. He's also the only pure custodes player I know who beats knights frequently. He did however insist that taking trajaan in any list is a mistake, and would rather take shield captains or even smash captains in his place. Anyway, his list:

 

 

Yes I agree Trajan is over costed making an army that demands efficiency inefficient. That said I love the guy, and took forever to paint him. :) The Telemon is extremely expensive as well, but marching WITH Trajann upfield takes greatest advantages of his aura's on a unit that pretty much needs to hit and wound a ton to be effective.

 

I could put in my Helverins, but they certainly don't look as nice. :)

 

And yes... 4 of the same datasheet is illegal. So there's probably something missing from that list. But I am glad to hear success with pure Custodes. :tu:

[shanewatts]

4 bike captains definitely is a no go haha. I do have trouble seeing this doing well on getting kills for ITC primary points. The 3(4) bike captains will have to hide behind the wall of foot custodes which limit their movement severely or eat shots/charges from being in front.

 

I have a hard time believing that this does well vs knights, but maybe I am missing something.

 

After the Allarus hit the table I can see the bike captains going up in offense with the termies to screen.

 

This list like most Custodes lists deny a ton of points (in ITC) via secondaries and making kills hard to get.

 

As cool as Allarus are, they are never going to be as good as bikes, unless they get a serious points decrease.