How are your Custodes doing?

[rcoon]

Nice....and extremly close to what I am aiming to: my primaris are white + red and gold shoulders. 

What color did you use for undercoat?

What is your white? ulthuan grey or corax white?

Corax white base coat, then a 50/50 mix of lahmium medium and seraphim sepia wash - you literally lather on the wash across the entire model. Gives the model a white base look but almost antique looking.

Edited November 15, 2018 by rcoon

[Prot]

So I've had a few more games, and as mentioned in the 'Custodes without relying on bikes' thread I have been playing in one of the competitive, but certainly not.... cut throat groups with my Custodes that are as basic, and entry level as I can make them without making them too boring.

In a nutshell that means I've been playing pure Custodes (no allies) using Trajann, 1 SC on Dawneagle, a 3 man bike squad. Guardian troops. 3 Allarus, 3 Wardens, and a MM Contemptor... oh and an Imperialis banner dude.

Thus far I have been undefeated and it's been frustrating for me. As I said in the other thread I SHOULD have lost my game against BA, but I think my opponent got way too confident with Smash captain, and his assaults. Also he forget "Only in Death..." and if he would have remembered it (we replayed that moment) he would have killed all my bike squad, and most assuredly would have won that game as a result.

Against Necrons I'll never know who should have won that one because again I think my opponent was far too aggrssive with Destroyers and I smoked them T2 with my bikes and those are really ugly to face with Custodes, but he hung them way too high on the board. Also I find Wraiths very hard for my Custodes to deal with alone, and he (for some reason) stuck them in with a Contemptor and we just flailed uselessly at each for 3 turns while my army did the real work.

Those games were the most recent with my list from last week. But last night I managed to get a game against the new Orks.

Their codex is really fun and I'll say up front although I wasn't sure what I would be playing against I let my opponent know what I had but he wanted to playtest some new stuff out which I completely understand. He understood i had a very basic Custodes army list.

So we play Maelstrom, Vanguard strike (Diagonal deployment).

I won't go through the whole game, but it started out really shaky for the Custodes. I didn't want to get shot up so I huddled everything around the Magnifica banner and flanked Turn 1 to take his giant Loota squad out of Turn 1 behind some ruins.

Here's the thing though....I thought I was safe from a T1 charge, but he took a big Battlewagon with a dethrolla and a wartrike, advanced the vehicles and came at me with a Dorka bot on the other flank. I was felling pretty squeezed in. But what got me was the fact the Wartrike allows the Battlewagon to advance and charge with a dethrolla!

So T1 looks like this:

- This really hurt. The Dethrolla killed 2 Guardians.

- My Contemptor punches hard, blows up the bloody Wagon and of course it blows up... man did it cause a TON of wounds. I lost 4 off Trajann, 4 off the Magnifica, 1 off the Shield captain, 3 off the Contemptor... more off guardians and bikes INSANE first turn. I was laughing at the devastation caused by this dumpster fire on wheels.

So I feel very much in trouble. I deepstrike Allarus in a far corner to peel away at his massive Loota squad which is quite dangerous to Custodes with their D2 weapons, more dakkka, fire twice stuff... that was a mistake because the grots soaked up all the wounds and I would never reach the Lootas with my 3 Allarus.

Believe it or not in one round of shooting he took down 1.5 Allarus, then he remembered his grenades halfway through the game and started using his stickbombs. They hurt a lot. A failed save would outright kill one of my last bikes, and outright kill my last Allarus.

Backing up a bit.... after that T1 explosion I had to massacre everyone in the Wagon if I wanted to feel like I had a chance.My multi assault resulted in kiling all the boys, a warboss, and a psyker Weird boy which were in the vehicle.

So at this point I feel like I have a chance, but the Dorkbot was still a threat, as were lootas. What saved my 'core' army was the Imperialis. In fact it was huge. Orks hitting on 6's is hard on them but he still had tremendous numbers.

Fast forward and I've taken on 3 large mobs, 2 Battle Wagons, my Melta Salvo from the Shield Captain finished off the Dorkobot.

But I've lost all my bikes, shield capt down to 2 wounds. Trajann on 3. Lost the Allarus, Lost 7 Guardians (out of 10). I lost the Contemptor to Ghazkull. Basicaly I have 2 Wardens left, Tajann, a Shield Captain, and 3 Guardians.

I Ghaz was nasty in CC, but we both agreed too expensive. However I could have interrupted with my Wardens but I let him go first... not realizing Ghaz would give a +1 attack to 15 boys with exploding 6's to hit! Wow. So I had to make 30 saves, plus the fist. Somehow I only lost 1 Warden!

Here's the pic of that last turn:

So after Ghaz annihilated the Contemptor Trajann messed up Ghaz pretty good.

At that he only had a squad of boyz, most of his lootas, and some gretchin so we called it there as he'd never catch up in points.

My opponent felt he couldn't really do much to my army. He loved the opening and I thought I was in deep trouble, but he said if he didn't have that lucky explosion early on, he thinks I would have tabled him. I don't know about that but I did remind him that alhtough the explosion REALLY hurt me, it did leave his full squad, plus Warboss, plus Psyker right in the open. I massacred them as a result an netted a lot of points. He never had a psychic phase.

So he felt he couldn't interact with me, which i found odd since we were into each other from his T1 on, but maybe more accurately he felt 'bored' playing an army like this.

I wanted him to win pretty bad so I could justify changing the army up a bit, but instead after about 10 wins in a row with this I have to strongly consider retiring it. It will be disappointing because I'm almost done painting my Telemon dread (last fielded against a strong Tau list). This group can bring some strong stuff to the table, but with experimenting, and the odd newer player, and some codexes that aren't terribly competitive, I don't feel right playing this army and just hoping my opponent beats me. I want them to have fun too so for now I have to really consider shelving them.

[Fortunatus]

Sounds like an interesting game - the vehicle explosion mortal wound damage is as ludicrous as the "My gripe with mortal wounds" thread in the general discussion forum made it sound. I'm sorry but that's just plain ridiculous.

 

Do you really feel that Adeptus Custodes is so strong that you can't play them in your group?

 

From what I've seen Custodes have some absolute glaring weaknesses; however, those weaknesses will not be found in the close combat phase.

 

Personally I don't think you should feel bad about using Adeptus Custodes - it appears you've pre-warned your opponents about what you're bringing - so if they haven't prepared for that more fool them.

 

You are certainly not abusing the imperial system whereby you've roped in a Loyal 32 for extra CP and a load of basilisks/leman russ' for long range firepower. You've certainly had a good dose of luck in terms of making 29 out of 30 saves etc. You're clearly a good sportsman and not being a d***k, so why would anyone refuse to play against you?

 

** Edit: Forgot to thank you for the write up, love reading this stuff!

Edited November 21, 2018 by Fortunatus

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Fantastic picture Prot - really love your stuff ! /thumbsup

 

I reckon the ork player will want a rematch so don't hang up your boots quite yet. :)

[Prot]

Sounds like an interesting game - the vehicle explosion mortal wound damage is as ludicrous as the "My gripe with mortal wounds" thread in the general discussion forum made it sound. I'm sorry but that's just plain ridiculous.

 

Do you really feel that Adeptus Custodes is so strong that you can't play them in your group?

 

From what I've seen Custodes have some absolute glaring weaknesses; however, those weaknesses will not be found in the close combat phase.

 

Personally I don't think you should feel bad about using Adeptus Custodes - it appears you've pre-warned your opponents about what you're bringing - so if they haven't prepared for that more fool them.

 

You are certainly not abusing the imperial system whereby you've roped in a Loyal 32 for extra CP and a load of basilisks/leman russ' for long range firepower. You've certainly had a good dose of luck in terms of making 29 out of 30 saves etc. You're clearly a good sportsman and not being a d***k, so why would anyone refuse to play against you?

 

** Edit: Forgot to thank you for the write up, love reading this stuff!

 

Thank you for reading it!

 

I think the problem is that a larger group of people I'm playing really don't have a lot of answers for this kind of army and it leaves them frustrated. I don't really want that sort of feeling. I don't like hammering someone. I want them to have fun as well. In tournaments I play whatever I like, but with groups of people like this I feel more of a commitment to making sure they have a good time too.

 

 

 

 

Fantastic picture Prot - really love your stuff ! /thumbsup

 

I reckon the ork player will want a rematch so don't hang up your boots quite yet.

 

Thanks a ton. That Trajann model is such a great, iconic sculpt to me. :)

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I have the kit plus a really cool helm from a Stormshield Eternal I want to use for a bit of a conversion. :)

[kombatwombat]

I actually just used the helm from a Warden (I hate bareheaded models) and trimmed off the feathers from the tilting shield. I reckon it’s a nice model with those small changes. Massive though - stand him next to a Terminator, the bloke’s enormous!

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I love the Custodes conical helmet. That said my Shield-Captain is a bare head just because. /thumbsup

[Dulahan]

Honestly, there's a lot of things that scare me with Custodes.  Especially since I don't even run Jetbikes. 

 

The big one?  BIG hordes of melee combatants.  Genestealers, Bloodletters, and Orks to be even more specific.  Those units are pretty terrifying with their high strength, AP, and lots of attacks and bodies.  Sure I'll shred a bunch on my turn, but if I don't get the charge especially, they're going to wreck my day.  Especially if I'm running MSU custodians guards, 3 dudes vs 30 Bloodletters?  Well, that's not going to end well unless I've got an HQ, Vexilla, and probably another unit helping them out too.  Just not enough firepower!

 

At least it's easy to keep a smaller group from getting attacked by all of them.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Hordes get all the love this edition and cheap as chips too.

[Nemisor]

So ive now had 3 games with my custodes bike list. 2 v yinarri/alitoc net list filth and a ravenwing DA speeder fest. Won all 3, absolutely stomped the eldar. The raven wing list gave me more of a hard time though.

[Charlo]

Good to read the report as always Prot.

 

What do you feel makes your list so strong? It seems quite low on numbers and could be easily decimated by some dedicated shooting. How many guardians are you using? 3x5?

[Prot]

Good to read the report as always Prot.

 

What do you feel makes your list so strong? It seems quite low on numbers and could be easily decimated by some dedicated shooting. How many guardians are you using? 3x5?

 

Thanks. Guardian squads were 2 x 3 and 1 x 4.

 

I made the list as basic, and beatable as possible with my only true indulgence being in the 3 bikes and Shield Captain on bike (I want to have some mobility). 

 

I don't think the list is that strong. I think there are a few groups I play in and the one that I play most often has been unable to beat it. (To be fair I haven't played Custodes outside of that group because this iteration of them is largely unpainted).

 

I've watched people play against them and I think they are making massive mistakes. I think engaging me with a lot of armies isn't smart. Even if you think you have the leg up, the Custodes counter punch (by normal means and assisted through Strategems) is horrific and probably one of the most potent I've ever seen. 

 

People seem reluctant to feed them junk, to play a bit cagey. They seem to always desire taking that cannon ball shot and hoping it works rather than chewing them slowly. Of course there are armies that do the 'cannon ball' really well with Mortal Wounds or DE for example.

 

When I beat a Dark Eldar gunboat list I think the guy underestimated my ignorance. I refused to shoot, I just advanced every turn and cornered the boats... he did what the Necron guy did: hung out too high on the board. (impatience)

 

The fact is it's frustrating, but I see how frustrated people (who aren't playing cut throat lists) have facing my army. 

 

The funny thing is I can struggle against good Tau. Somehow I beat that army as well (perhaps luck?) And I watched the Ork guy I just defeated (which I reported on above) Just played that very Tau player. The Ork Player completely dissected the Tau army worse than me!!! I mean way worse. Turn 1 the Lootas ripped his Stormsurge apart with ease (using their new strats).

 

When I played the Tau guy I took the Stormsurge right in the teeth for 3 turns, and tried my trick with the advancing Banner Dude, using the Strat to deepstrike the Allarus in his face. 1 of my Allarus died to overwatch and 2 Allarus wrecked his lines, or I was dead. Riptides fell soon after. But I had barely any models left.

 

So I don't understand the miss matches. On one hand I personally do not feel I should be winning half of these games. On the other hand I can't play Custodes against these guys and beat them over the head a few times a week with them over and over. 

 

Anyway the last 5 or so games were me using the 'weak' list. I told myself if I did not lose I have to pack them up because it's no fun for my opponents. I will state for the record in those last 5 games I believe quite strongly I should absolutely have lost to the: Blood Angels (absolutely. I even showed the guy how it could have happened. (without being a ding dong about it.)) I should have most likely lost to Necrons for sure. Very like should have lost to the Tau. Orks is a toss up. His list, and his admittance to playing new, wonky test units presented him with an imbalance.

 

I have had a couple of them ask me to not put them away. I also try to convince myself that it's not the Custodes, it's my luck in those games. But I sense the frustration. The Ork guy came out and said he felt it was boring to play against, like it's futile for him to attack the army.

Edited November 25, 2018 by Prot

[CaptainMarsh]

Three games in yesterday, one with Custodes. Was a good game, even if a Death Guard mortal wound grenade bomb managed to murder an entire bike squad and then an entire Guardian squad. Won 9-7 with a single Guardian who survived a full turn by himself at the end.

[Charlo]

Orks are probably something that is actually quite hard-countered by Custodes.

 

Their shooting lacks AP (for the most part) and will only be hitting 1/6 of the time against our units in vexilla range. Our high wounds, armour and invulns make us immune to the small stuff and the occasional big thing that does get through. They want to be in combat but surprise, so do we. Their lack of invulns mean we just chew them up once we weather the storm.

 

Even our Guardian spears are 2D to hurt things like Nobz and Trukkz.

 

It's interesting people feel cagey, but it sounds like its the players more than the actual army - they're just not used to the Custodes yet. They have a LOT of answers and "gotcha" moments with the stratagems, but playing around those takes experience (lol Stooping Dive).

[rcoon]

My meta knows full well not to get into melee with Custodes with anything except a Distracton Knight Gallant or a Distraction Carnifex. Custodes suck at range - yes they can easily kill a handful of basic troops with their spear-bolters, but they're still not fantastic. Flamers are your enemies' best friend. I actively avoid my friend's bloat drones and try not to even charge them without offering a sacrifice first.

[shanewatts]

25 Bad moon Lootas are a bad day for Custodes (15 +10 from mob up.) Pop strat for Dakka on 5s, getting 2 shots a piece, kills 3 Custodes. Shoot again strat, 3 more dead for 6 killed.

 

If they get 3 shots a piece, that goes to 4.5 dead Custodes, shoot again for another 4.5 dead for a total of 9 killed.

 

This is a cp intensive strategy, but Orks are able to bring a brigade or multiple battalions easily.

 

 

 

 

Math below for those interested:

 

50 shots, 17 5/6s, 8 1s, 1s reroll into 3 more hits. 20 hits become 20 dakka rolls.

20 shots, 7 5/6s, 3 1s, 1s reroll into 1 more hit. 8 hits + original 20.

28 hits, 19 wounds, 6 fail (3+) at 2d each. 3 dead.

 

75 shots, 25 5/6s, 13 1s, 1s reroll into 4 more hits. 29 hits become 29 dakka rolls.

29 shots, 10 5/6s, 5 1s, 1s reroll into 2 more hits. 12 hits + original 29.

41 hits, 27 wounds, 9 fail (3+) at 2d each. 4.5 dead.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Can they pop this strat if the deep strike Lootas in an open topped Battlewagon Shane ?

[shanewatts]

I believe the FAQ said no strats on units that are embarked, but I'll have to check when I get home.

[Prot]

25 Bad moon Lootas are a bad day for Custodes (15 +10 from mob up.) Pop strat for Dakka on 5s, getting 2 shots a piece, kills 3 Custodes. Shoot again strat, 3 more dead for 6 killed.

 

If they get 3 shots a piece, that goes to 4.5 dead Custodes, shoot again for another 4.5 dead for a total of 9 killed.

 

This is a cp intensive strategy, but Orks are able to bring a brigade or multiple battalions easily.

 

 

 

 

Math below for those interested:

 

50 shots, 17 5/6s, 8 1s, 1s reroll into 3 more hits. 20 hits become 20 dakka rolls.

20 shots, 7 5/6s, 3 1s, 1s reroll into 1 more hit. 8 hits + original 20.

28 hits, 19 wounds, 6 fail (3+) at 2d each. 3 dead.

 

75 shots, 25 5/6s, 13 1s, 1s reroll into 4 more hits. 29 hits become 29 dakka rolls.

29 shots, 10 5/6s, 5 1s, 1s reroll into 2 more hits. 12 hits + original 29.

41 hits, 27 wounds, 9 fail (3+) at 2d each. 4.5 dead.

 

I told my opponent the combo to use there. and I agree it is potent, however I have to admit with my -1 to hit banner he had a heck of a time.

 

To be honest I despise the Rocket/missile guys with my Custodes. One failed save drops a Guardian. Brutal if they are in a vehicle.

 

I believe the FAQ said no strats on units that are embarked, but I'll have to check when I get home.

 

That is true. No strats on embarked units.

[shanewatts]

Prot -  the above strategy with Lootas is unaffected by the banner. The dakka on 5s strat allows them to auto hit on 5s and 6s, invalidating the banner entirely.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Prot have you had to deal with the Killer Klaw yet ? It can easily nuke BobbyG.

 

This edition really reminds me of Magic the Gathering now - it is all about the wombo-combos and wow there are some bad-feelsies now !

Edited November 26, 2018 by Black Orange

[Prot]

Prot -  the above strategy with Lootas is unaffected by the banner. The dakka on 5s strat allows them to auto hit on 5s and 6s, invalidating the banner entirely.

  

 

He never actually used the Strat to shoot at the core of my army. However when I came in with Allarus he tore them apart. I’ll pass that on to him though.

 

I’ll warn you guys to watch out for the stick bomb Strat too. It’s ridiculously powerful against stuff like Custodes.

 

 

Prot have you had to deal with the Killer Klaw yet ? It can easily nuke BobbyG.

 

This edition really reminds me of Magic the Gathering now - it is all about the wombo-combos and wow there are some bad-feelsies now !

Actually he had it in play but I kept asking where it was (all Orks look the same to me!). And I made sure to get the charge off on that dude and got him before he could swing.

[Boyadventurer]

I finally got in my first game with Custodes after being out of the scene almost all year. Played 1750 in the mission with a single objective in each deployment zone that scores only at the end of the game.

 

I had:

Shield captain on foot, 1 on relic bike

Vexilla with -1 to hit

3x shield/spear/spear guardian squads
3 allurus

2x 3 bikes

 

He had:

Azrael, Sammael, Talonmaster and ancient with the relic banner

Darkshroud, predator destructor

2 min tac squads, 2 scout squads, and everything else was hellblasters

 

He bubbles up on his objective with tac and scout squads screening. I placed my objective behind some munitorum containers that were piled in a big C shape, so unless it was a <FLY> unit, he had to waste a lot of movement going around the containers. Unfortunately, that meant I had a squad of guardians babysitting it all game (I could have kept them close by but in LOS round 1 and 2 to get a couple more shots in and move them back on the OBJ at the end of the game but oh well).

 

All those hurricane bolters flubbed it on turn 1 and he had a healthy amount of scouts still there. No sweat, I advanced with the SC on the Bike (warlord) cause the bike gives advance+charge so he can charge into combat... oh wait no, my notes were wrong and its REROLL charges. The good news is he ate up almost all the DA shooting, and when the dust cleared and he killed my warlord and wounded another bike in that whole turn, I pop the strat to make my other SC the warlord now :D

 

Turn 2 shooting opened up a nice gap in his screen so my bikes multicharged a squad of hellblasters, talonmaster, and remaining scouts and cleared them all out. The other bikes charged the pred and did a little damage but it was still in the first bracket. Then he let the biked have it and I started to get VERY nervous -- Thats like 725 of points gone right there!
 

Termies deep striked in and my guardians are closing in on his lines. He's holed up in his ruins still and I've got him cornered. My termies tanked his entire armies fire and still had one standing at 1w.

 

Turn 4: cut through his last tac squad but the sergeant survived, and fell back in a chokepoint to block my next turn charge against the hellblasters. Lone termie charged the pred and killed it. My other guardian squad dies off.

 

5: Those guardians had to charge the srg, killed him, but came up short against the hellblasters. 1w termie charges Azrael and destroys him. He's getting a promotion to shield captain for sure. I've got linebreaker, he has first blood, and I've just taken warlord. My warlord is behind the -1 to hit vexilla and the termie from the rest of his army... Except Sammael and the darkshroud haul ass to the other side of him and let loose... they had to charge in to finially kill him but failed the final armour save/FNP of the game and he ties it.

I wonder how different things would have been if I hadn't made the error with the shield captain on the bike. I'll never forget the bike's rules again, that's for sure. Earned a lot of good sportman points for taking that one on the chin. The plasma (with weapons of the dark age each turn!!) wasn't as scary as I thought it would be. The terminators taking a whole round of shooting and still having a big impact of the game really dug my morale out of the muck after losing all the bikes. If it wasn't for a couple smart moves my opponent made, I would have either been in on those hellblasters and taking his objective, or not have given up warlord, so it was a worthy draw. It was a good game for getting used to 40k again and for my first jaunt with the custodes. This weekend I'm up against a different DA player who's bringing knights too, so let's see what the Telemon can do!

 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

SM vs. SM is so Heresy bruh .