What would you want in future Primaris expansions?

[War Angel]

Las talon would be interesting, would it start to step on the toes of eliminators?

 

Unless it’s also got the extra guns, that make it cost a little more, but dish out damage where you want it thanks to its movement?

 

I think I agree that bike CC is a little odd. I prefer the jumpers to be CC oriented. Myself.

[Gederas]

Honestly not into a melee biker. Not that I wouldn't want to find a place for them in mt play style at the right cost  ....  but for any of you who have actually rode bikes very much, I hope you'll back me up that it's a lousy platform to want to fight hand to hand with. I think a melee Inceptor unit would be much more effective but again Fly keyword cost us extra points we need to be saving in a Primaris army.

 

We've seen the pic just show us the darn bikers for real. I'm good either way just give us an honest sword and board for Impulsors and I'll buy those too.

Well, it's a good thing we're talking about super-human soldiers in power armour that enhances their strength and mobility and not Joe Shmoe on his Harley :rolleyes:

 

Melee bikers make sense from the standpoint of Marine Bikers being an advanced form of Mounted Knights....

 

Also: Rule of Cool

 

(note: Then again, I might be biased because I love cavalry, and Bikes are some of my favorite units in the Astartes arsenal)

[Dracos]

Well, superhuman doesn't necessarily turn a bad fighting style into a good one, but .... I'm all for the Rule of Cool .... and if done right Primaris Bikers can definitely be that. If the front of the bikes look like what I think they do from the pics they''re gonna be baad to the bone.

 

Just fearful its gonna be a tandem set of bike riders .... bleh

[redmapa]

I personally would like Primaris Bikers to be the close combat unit due to two ideas, one is that the "fast, shooty unit" role is already taken by Inceptors and two is that since Primaris have been flipping the previous ideas for Astartes units I think giving Bikers access to power weapons would flip our perception of close combat units (from jump pack to bike). Plus its not like this is a new idea, at least for Black Templars you could equip a 3 man squad all with Power Weapons so the precedent is there.

[Spinsanity]

Bikers with power lances would look the part. Maybe make them anti-armour and give them twin-meltas onstead of bolters, or maybe go with flamers jnstead, depending on the role GW wants to give them...

[Lord_Caerolion]

They'd be cheaper because no Fly keyword but would be a better to see twin las-talons, melts lance, or the oft mentioned Volkite .... 

 

Honestly not into a melee biker. Not that I wouldn't want to find a place for them in mt play style at the right cost  ....  but for any of you who have actually rode bikes very much, I hope you'll back me up that it's a lousy platform to want to fight hand to hand with. I think a melee Inceptor unit would be much more effective but again Fly keyword cost us extra points we need to be saving in a Primaris army.

 

We've seen the pic just show us the darn bikers for real. I'm good either way just give us an honest sword and board for Impulsors and I'll buy those too.

 

That's why I'd want them to be a shock line-breaker unit. They don't get bogged down in fights, they ride straight through, destroying a specific target with their lance, and burning the rest with their flamers as they ride off to come back for a second pass. You're right in that bikers as a combat unit makes no sense if it's for a bogged down, extended brawl, but it makes perfect sense to have them as old-style lancers. They don't use combat knives/chainswords, etc, they just run over things.

[Ishagu]

I would take Bikers with Las Talons.

 

That gives the unit a clear purpose: Quick, mobile tank Hunters.

 

Imagine these guys running circles around slow moving vehicles, popping off Las Talon shots.

[Panzer]

 

Honestly not into a melee biker. Not that I wouldn't want to find a place for them in mt play style at the right cost  ....  but for any of you who have actually rode bikes very much, I hope you'll back me up that it's a lousy platform to want to fight hand to hand with. I think a melee Inceptor unit would be much more effective but again Fly keyword cost us extra points we need to be saving in a Primaris army.

 

We've seen the pic just show us the darn bikers for real. I'm good either way just give us an honest sword and board for Impulsors and I'll buy those too.

Well, it's a good thing we're talking about super-human soldiers in power armour that enhances their strength and mobility and not Joe Shmoe on his Harley

 

Melee bikers make sense from the standpoint of Marine Bikers being an advanced form of Mounted Knights....

 

Also: Rule of Cool

 

(note: Then again, I might be biased because I love cavalry, and Bikes are some of my favorite units in the Astartes arsenal)

 

 

Makes less sense when you consider that one of the biggest advantages of cavalry was that they actually had the high ground fought from an elevated position compared to regular soldiers (ignoring the mobility aspect since we already have Jump Packs covering that) while Bikers are actually fighting from a lower position compared to regular soldiers.

 

But yeah it's mainly rule of cool. I want my future fantasy space knights to wield swords, shields and have cavalry.

 

Unfortunately I don't expect them to be melee. The pictures looked like shooty bikes and GW seems to want Marine bikes in general to be shooty as well.

 

 

 

 

As for the topic where Bikers could excel without just replacing Inceptors (apart from the weapon selection): Inceptors have a comparably low base movement for Jump Pack Infantry at just 10" while Bikers usually have better base movement at 14" (16" for Scout Bikes) and are also able to advance a reliable 6" instead of having to roll 1d6.

Aka WAY better mobility on open terrain. Inceptors would then excel on boards with more dense terrain like Cities of Death or huge apocalyptic styled boards where deep striking turn 2 lets them drop where Bikers couldn't possibly get to with their turboboosting.

Edited May 14, 2020 by Panzer

[Ishagu]

Maybe you're right. I want to be excited about new units, but these units need to do more than look pretty.

 

When I look at my existing army, the units I have and what they can do, I have to think about what I'm going to add and what I have to remove as a result. These bikers need to do more than simply move a bit quicker than an Inceptor on open ground. GW might surprise us completely and arm them in exciting ways.

 

What is certain, however, is that White Scars will benefit from them a lot. It could transform that army as they will have a solid new unit to build around that take advantage of their chapter rules and strats.

[Subtleknife]

I wouldnt mind if the bikes had grav weaponry so as a primaris only army I can make use of the grav strat.

 

Also a no from me for melee bikes.

[Iron Lord]

I would take Bikers with Las Talons.

 

That gives the unit a clear purpose: Quick, mobile tank Hunters.

 

Imagine these guys running circles around slow moving vehicles, popping off Las Talon shots.

 

Aren't Las-Talons kind of big to be a bike weapon? They're the main turret gun on a Repulsor,  and the centreline  weapon on a Stormhawk Interceptor.

 

Maybe a Las-Fusil would fit better - if Primaris Bikes get to move and fire heavy weapons without penalty?

[Ishagu]

Twin Las Fusil? I'll take it lol

[Iron Lord]

Or twin mini-Las Fusil, just as a plasma talon is a twin mini-plasma gun. It has less range than a regular one, but the same  Str, AP, and damage.

Edited May 14, 2020 by Iron Lord

[Dracos]

Let’s hope GW thought of this before we did lol. I like the twin las-fusil idea best so far. Squads of three with a chain sword for the rider and Sgt chooses from the armory for a Power Sword to a Thunder Hammer.

 

Reliable anti-tank monster ability, decent hit and run hand to hand with most Chapters actually having a applicable buff of one kind or another that suits its play style.

 

Man I hate wish listing that actually makes sense. It’ll never happen. Lol.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

At the risk of pouring water on some people's hopes, we should remember that the default loadout for the bikes is likely to be twin bolt rifles and scale any alternate loadout hopes appropriately. So they will not be primarily melee and an alternate ranged loadout that's too out of whack with twin bolt rifles is probably a non-starter.

 

(Why twin bolt rifles? Because that's what they were armed with in the Fist of the Imperium novel and I doubt Andy Clark just made that up on his own).

[jaxom]

Let’s hope GW the miniature designers thought of this before we did lol.

WITYM

[Mmmmm Napalm]

I forgot to mention Primaris Terminators, although I have some concerns regarding how GW might design hypothetical "Priminators". All Indomitus pattern armor really needs is slightly bulked-up proportions - especially around the thighs - and adjusted head position (I cite the Adepticon Termie Librarian as my reasoning...). I'm concerned that the designers would deviate too much from the classic design. I don't want them to just make them wear Saturnine pattern armor; I think that design needs a fair bit of adjustment).

 

And before anyone asks, no I don't really consider Mk. X Gravis a Termie equivalent. They seem more akin to Centurions in my view.

 

As for why they should make Priminators at all, all I really can say is "why not?"; Terminators have an important place in SM lore, and in the game(s) as well. Space Hulk, which centers around Termies, is an important and beloved part of 40k's history as an IP. A new version of Space Hulk with Mk. X Gravis instead of Terminators? No thanks lol

Edited May 14, 2020 by Mmmmm Napalm

[Iron Lord]

I forgot to mention Primaris Terminators, although I have some concerns regarding how GW might design hypothetical "Priminators". All Indomitus pattern armor really needs is slightly bulked-up proportions - especially around the thighs - and adjusted head position (I cite the Adepticon Termie Librarian as my reasoning...). I'm concerned that the designers would deviate too much from the classic design. I don't want them to just make them wear Saturnine pattern armor; I think that design needs a fair bit of adjustment).

 

And before anyone asks, no I don't really consider Mk. X Gravis a Termie equivalent. They seem more akin to Centurions in my view.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if all a Primaris needs to do to wear a Centurion suit, is don their lightest suit of armour (Phobos) first. Maybe the inside of the Centurion suit is very adjustable?

 

In the Imperial Fists supplement, a huge force of 5th Company is depicted, with the infantry consisting entirely of Primaris Marines (plus a few attached Terminators) and Centurions.

[Hymnblade]

At the risk of pouring water on some people's hopes, we should remember that the default loadout for the bikes is likely to be twin bolt rifles and scale any alternate loadout hopes appropriately. So they will not be primarily melee and an alternate ranged loadout that's too out of whack with twin bolt rifles is probably a non-starter.

 

(Why twin bolt rifles? Because that's what they were armed with in the Fist of the Imperium novel and I doubt Andy Clark just made that up on his own).

That seems plausible, if disappointing.

 

All the Primaris units except the very earliest (Intercessors, Hellblasters, Inceptors) are basically defined by their special rules. Imagine trying to evaluate Aggressors or Infiltrators without knowing anything about their special rules; you'd get a VERY wrong idea of their capabilities. Even with twin bolt rifles, bikes could be pretty cool if they have some special rule that gives them an actual role. I just have no idea what that would actually be, haha.

[Dracos]

I don’t think you’re wrong because it would be consistent. It would also require a plasma version at the very least for our DA brethren. Still, the las-fusil would just help feel so many holes in the Primaris line and not require meltas. Not that I mind melta. I just want to keep these guys cheap as possible and still fill the role of anti-tank/infantry support effectively.

[Iron Lord]

I picked the las-fusil out as the hardest-hitting small weapon the Primaris get (smaller than a lascannon, small enough to be carried by an Eliminator and not require a huge backpack for power cells.)

[Captain Idaho]

What weapons for a Primaris Biker? Astartes Shotguns, big ones, possibly gatling.

[Iron Lord]

What weapons for a Primaris Biker? Astartes Shotguns, big ones, possibly gatling.

 

Sounds more like a 10th Company Vanguard Primaris biker to me - basically the Primaris version of a Scout Biker - give them the Phobos keyword.

 

 

But what would the Battle Companies use in the Bikes role?

[Dracos]

Las talon would be interesting, would it start to step on the toes of eliminators?

 

Unless it’s also got the extra guns, that make it cost a little more, but dish out damage where you want it thanks to its movement?

 

I think I agree that bike CC is a little odd. I prefer the jumpers to be CC oriented. Myself.

 

I don't think the Las-fusils or talons would be stepping to hard on the Eliminator toes as every suggestion for Eliminators I've ever seen prefers the Sniper Bolt Rifle over the Las. Similiar to Hellblasters and Plasma Inceptors. They're out there but hardly wide ranging, especially in more competitive list. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

If we look at the existing range every Primaris biker will be equipped the same. Hopefully there are options for both shooting and melee - both of which should be punishing.