Sammael Master of the Ravenwing Jetbike “Sableclaw”

[Brother Bish]

Greetings Brothers,

 

I finally found some time to work on my Sammael Master of the Ravenwing Jetbike “Sableclaw” Counts-as Conversion, say that five times fast!

 

I’ve included some close up photos of the areas of the robes that I sculpted. I’ve also included some photos of the Talonmaster with Sammael. Some people wanted to see a size comparison so I also included some photos of the regular Sammael on Corvus and my conversion at the end.

 

You can read more about the conversion on my website here: http://chamber42.com/blog/archives/1190

 

http://chamber42.com/blog/wp-content/grand-media/image/Sammael-Jetbike-01.jpghttp://chamber42.com/blog/wp-content/grand-media/image/Sammael-Jetbike-02.jpghttp://chamber42.com/blog/wp-content/grand-media/image/Sammael-Jetbike-03.jpghttp://chamber42.com/blog/wp-content/grand-media/image/Sammael-Jetbike-04.jpghttp://chamber42.com/blog/wp-content/grand-media/image/Sammael-Jetbike-05.jpghttp://chamber42.com/blog/wp-content/grand-media/image/Sammael-Jetbike-06.jpghttp://chamber42.com/blog/wp-content/grand-media/image/Sammael-Jetbike-07.jpghttp://chamber42.com/blog/wp-content/grand-media/image/Sammael-Jetbike-08.jpghttp://chamber42.com/blog/wp-content/grand-media/image/Sammael-Jetbike-09.jpghttp://chamber42.com/blog/wp-content/grand-media/image/Sammael-Jetbike-10.jpghttp://chamber42.com/blog/wp-content/grand-media/image/Sammael-Jetbike-11.jpghttp://chamber42.com/blog/wp-content/grand-media/image/Sammael-Jetbike-13.jpg

[Zebulon]

Impressive! Good looking conversion well worth the effort imho.

[Stoic Raptor]

Nice to see that the proportions are so close to the "official" model.  Honestly, I like yours better.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Very nice, but doesn't Samael's Jetbike come with a Plasma cannon, not a pair of assault cannons? 

 

Still I like the double assault cannons which looks better than the hurricane bolters of the normal custodes bikes.

 

Also I like the helmet version too.

[Brother Bish]

Very nice, but doesn't Samael's Jetbike come with a Plasma cannon, not a pair of assault cannons?

 

Still I like the double assault cannons which looks better than the hurricane bolters of the normal custodes bikes.

 

Also I like the helmet version too.

I made these to use instead of Sammaels’s Sableclaw Landspeeder and the Talonmaster Landspeeder which is why they have those weapons loadouts. I never really liked the idea of the Master of the Ravenwing waving his sword from a Landspeeder cockpit hehe.

[PhilB]

Looks fantastic! Do you accept commissions?

[Brother Bish]

Looks fantastic! Do you accept commissions?

Thanks! In the future I may, I am currently a stay at home dad for an 18 month old, which keeps me pretty busy most of the time hehe. All my hobby time is when I can fit it in (and isn’t often unfortunatly) which makes doing things on schedule very difficult. But once he gets a little older and I have a bit more time I may start taking commissions, it’s something I’ve always wanted to do. I also have plans for a twitch channel on modeling and painting, but that is also in the future.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Looks very awesome with the double assault cannon. I'm just afraid you might fight against "THAT GUY" who insists that it isn't Sammael even though it is obvious no other Space Marines has a jetbike.

[JJD]

In all honesty anyone arguing that this conversion isn’t Sammy is probably not someone you want to waste your limited free time playing.

 

I have a 4year old and a 20 month old and so I know how little free time you get especially once the afternoon nap goes away.

[Brother Bish]

Looks very awesome with the double assault cannon. I'm just afraid you might fight against "THAT GUY" who insists that it isn't Sammael even though it is obvious no other Space Marines has a jetbike.

There are always going to be “That Guy”, I’ve been in this hobby a long time, both as a player/customer and as a GW employee, and you are always going to run into someone with “Bitter Gamer Disease” that forgets how to have fun. But GW has always encouraged conversions and counts as models, so “that guy” doesn’t have a leg to stand on, and as was said, he probably wouldn’t be much fun to play with anyway. ;)

 

If it was a tournament situation then of course you’d need to check with the organizer before the tournament to make sure conversions and counts-as models are ok. If they are, than again “That Guy” can’t complain.

 

I do find it interesting though that this gets brought up so much now days, I’ve had something similar said in other posts I’ve made, and it says something about how the player base has changed in the last ten years. Almost to the point of being so hyper-competitive, at the cost of the fun part of the hobby. I think of the completely custom Adeptus Custodes army that my friend and former co-worker Dave Taylor made, that was featured in White Dwarf. This was long before there were official rules for Adeptus Custodes, so he ran it as a counts-as Space Marines/Grey Knights army and as far as I remember in he played it in tournaments as well. But no one cared. :)

[JJD]

 

Looks very awesome with the double assault cannon. I'm just afraid you might fight against "THAT GUY" who insists that it isn't Sammael even though it is obvious no other Space Marines has a jetbike.

There are always going to be “That Guy”, I’ve been in this hobby a long time, both as a player/customer and as a GW employee, and you are always going to run into someone with “Bitter Gamer Disease” that forgets how to have fun. But GW has always encouraged conversions and counts as models, so “that guy” doesn’t have a leg to stand on, and as was said, he probably wouldn’t be much fun to play with anyway. ;)

If it was a tournament situation then of course you’d need to check with the organizer before the tournament to make sure conversions and counts-as models are ok. If they are, than again “That Guy” can’t complain.

I do find it interesting though that this gets brought up so much now days, I’ve had something similar said in other posts I’ve made, and it says something about how the player base has changed in the last ten years. Almost to the point of being so hyper-competitive, at the cost of the fun part of the hobby. I think of the completely custom Adeptus Custodes army that my friend and former co-worker Dave Taylor made, that was featured in White Dwarf. This was long before there were official rules for Adeptus Custodes, so he ran it as a counts-as Space Marines/Grey Knights army and as far as I remember in he played it in tournaments as well. But no one cared. :)

There was an amazing army I recall seeing based on a Grot Revolution (I don’t want to hijack this thread but it’s totally worth a google search) and counted as imperial guard and I’m sure it was deemed tournament legal at Warhammer World. I can’t see many if any tournaments not allowing your conversion Brother Bish. I hope amazing things like this don’t go away in the name of competition. You can be creative and competitive. Edited March 12, 2018 by JJD

[Solrac]

Most tournaments if you send in pics of your conversions ahead of time for TO approval it is never an issue.

 

I have a friend who converted an entire army of Orkrons where he basically kit bashed Orks with the Necron kits so he could play them either as Orks or Necrons. You can easily tell what the models are supposed to be (e.g. kitbashed Killer Kans with Wraiths and you can clearly see what they are supposed to be). The TO's at the latest tournament had no issue with it as he provide pics of all his units before hand to make sure there wasn't gonna be any confusion for his opponents.

 

Back on topic this is a truly amazing conversion and don't see any TO having issues with it.

[Stoic Raptor]

I think of the completely custom Adeptus Custodes army that my friend and former co-worker Dave Taylor made, that was featured in White Dwarf. This was long before there were official rules for Adeptus Custodes, so he ran it as a counts-as Space Marines/Grey Knights army and as far as I remember in he played it in tournaments as well. But no one cared.

 

 

I just had a look at those models and honestly, I'd still find it a delight to have the chance to play against them.  For being over 13 years ago, they are unbelievable.

[PhilB]

I sympathise with the lack of free time Brother Bish, having a 15-month old myself on top of working full time & studying part-time.

I've managed to get a grand total of 3 games in since 8th launched, which I imagine will get worse before it gets better now we've another youngster on the way, I'll have to keep living vicariously through Solrac's battle reports...

 

When your schedule does free up though, I'd be very keen on becoming a client. I simply don't have the skill and time to complete a conversion such as this.

[Kasper_Hawser]

 

Looks very awesome with the double assault cannon. I'm just afraid you might fight against "THAT GUY" who insists that it isn't Sammael even though it is obvious no other Space Marines has a jetbike.

There are always going to be “That Guy”, I’ve been in this hobby a long time, both as a player/customer and as a GW employee, and you are always going to run into someone with “Bitter Gamer Disease” that forgets how to have fun. But GW has always encouraged conversions and counts as models, so “that guy” doesn’t have a leg to stand on, and as was said, he probably wouldn’t be much fun to play with anyway.

 

If it was a tournament situation then of course you’d need to check with the organizer before the tournament to make sure conversions and counts-as models are ok. If they are, than again “That Guy” can’t complain.

 

I do find it interesting though that this gets brought up so much now days, I’ve had something similar said in other posts I’ve made, and it says something about how the player base has changed in the last ten years. Almost to the point of being so hyper-competitive, at the cost of the fun part of the hobby. I think of the completely custom Adeptus Custodes army that my friend and former co-worker Dave Taylor made, that was featured in White Dwarf. This was long before there were official rules for Adeptus Custodes, so he ran it as a counts-as Space Marines/Grey Knights army and as far as I remember in he played it in tournaments as well. But no one cared.

 

 

Please note as I says this, this is refering to my meta, not to impose my views on the whole world playing group:

 

Sigh, there is a legitimate view to this "WSYIWYG ness", if there is such a thing. For my own personal standards, I always aim to be 100% WSYIWYG but even 4 years into the hobby, I always find myself missing a combi-weapon or power weapon which I'll then make sure I tell my opponent before hand.

 

The problem I think is that the game, despite its so called simplification, still encourages HORDES of models. Even a marine army with just tacticals could theoreticaly flood the board with 60 tacticals. Therefore it is rather imperative that for the line soldiers at least, we NEED them to be wsyiwyg, otherwise you risk a plasma "magically" turning into a melta at the correct moment, if the opponent is a dishonorable cheater. Or maybe he didn't cheat. Maybe he forgot he actually had a melta and won the game because of it due to 3 hours into the game, everyone has forgotten. And that's just one army, the other guy also has a horde of models as well that if not WSYIWYG, could end up cheating, intentionally or unintentionally.

 

OK, too long post already. TLDR, WSYIWYG is important, but not to the point of where your Sammael is forbidden for having assault cannons as it is one EXTREMELY DISTINCTIVE model belonging to the Ravenwing. Otherwise, please ensure the rest of your mooks are properly equipped.

[Brother Bish]

Please note as I says this, this is refering to my meta, not to impose my views on the whole world playing group:

 

Sigh, there is a legitimate view to this "WSYIWYG ness", if there is such a thing. For my own personal standards, I always aim to be 100% WSYIWYG but even 4 years into the hobby, I always find myself missing a combi-weapon or power weapon which I'll then make sure I tell my opponent before hand.

 

The problem I think is that the game, despite its so called simplification, still encourages HORDES of models. Even a marine army with just tacticals could theoreticaly flood the board with 60 tacticals. Therefore it is rather imperative that for the line soldiers at least, we NEED them to be wsyiwyg, otherwise you risk a plasma "magically" turning into a melta at the correct moment, if the opponent is a dishonorable cheater. Or maybe he didn't cheat. Maybe he forgot he actually had a melta and won the game because of it due to 3 hours into the game, everyone has forgotten. And that's just one army, the other guy also has a horde of models as well that if not WSYIWYG, could end up cheating, intentionally or unintentionally.

 

OK, too long post already. TLDR, WSYIWYG is important, but not to the point of where your Sammael is forbidden for having assault cannons as it is one EXTREMELY DISTINCTIVE model belonging to the Ravenwing. Otherwise, please ensure the rest of your mooks are properly equipped.

Sorry I’m just now having a chance to get back to this thread, it’s been a little crazy here hehe.

 

So just to make sure we are talking about the same thing here, I’d be running this model as Sammael’s Landspeeder Sableclaw. So the weapons on this model are WYSIWYG. Twin Assault Cannons and Twin Heavy Bolters. WYSIWYG has always been about making sure the weapons are correct no matter what model you are using. So to give an example, if I put Sammael on a Tetradactyl and said I going to use him as a counts-as Sammael on Corvex, to be WYSIWYG I’d have to put a Plasma Cannon and Twin Storm Bolters. Sammael being on a Tetradactyl doesn’t make it non-WYSIWYG, it just makes it a counts-as model. I’ve always been a stickler for WYSIWYG to the point of making extra models for a unit so the weapons are correct if I run it in a different configuration.

 

Now if I used my conversion here with the Sammael on Corvex rules, then I would not be WYSIWYG. Hope that all made sense.

 

But believe me I understand, different play groups and players are going to react differently to counts-as models and conversions. But I’d argue anyone that did stop someone from using counts-as or conversions (outside of a tournament, which can make their own rules.) probably doesn’t understand the spirit of the game. And it is absolutely imperative that if you are going to use counts-as models that you say so up front, otherwise you are effectively deceiving your opponent. :)