Speculation & spoilers regarding The Magos, Pariah etc

[grailkeeper]

Just finished it. I read the previous one when it came out but hadn't re read it.

I know now the name of the King in Yellow. I'm a bit out of the loop why it's such a big reveal. Can someone fill me in with an ELI5?

Edited March 2, 2021 by grailkeeper

[Darkwrath121]

  On 3/2/2021 at 12:02 PM, grailkeeper said:

Just finished it. I read the previous one when it came out but hadn't re read it.

 

I know now the name of the King in Yellow. I'm a bit out of the loop why it's such a big reveal. Can someone fill me in with an ELI5?

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Constantin Valdor, the first Captain-General of the Custodian Guard, and the first successfully created Custodian. One of the most powerful individuals in the Imperium up to the mortal wounding of the Emperor (and beyond). He mysteriously left Terra after the Horus Heresy as part of some secret mission.

 

That was his last real appearance, until now. Now he's seemingly leading some extremely powerful warp-enclave with mysterious goals relating to the Emperor, perhaps to revive him somehow. Assuming it actually IS Valdor. It's hardly less significant (lore wise) than one of the missing primarchs reappearing, in some ways.

Edited March 2, 2021 by Darkwrath121

[Taliesin]

Any appearances of Astartes in this book?

[Darkwrath121]

  On 3/2/2021 at 5:54 PM, Taliesin said:

Any appearances of Astartes in this book?

Yes.

Sorta. It's complicated...

[grailkeeper]

Complicated is a good way of putting it.

[Morovir]

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"Immaterial College"

 

Oh

 

*sound of screams*

Edited March 2, 2021 by Morovir

[caladancid]

  On 3/2/2021 at 6:10 PM, Darkwrath121 said:

 

  On 3/2/2021 at 5:54 PM, Taliesin said:

Any appearances of Astartes in this book?

Yes.

Sorta. It's complicated...

 

 

Its not safe to talk about it!  Don't say the name!

[Kelborn]

Oh god...

 

Did he name one Voldemort?

 

 

 

;)

[b1soul]

@ DarkWraith121

 

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It's uncertain whether Valdor is the first Custodes...he's simply by far the greatest ever of their kind

 

That's my understanding any way based on the Valdor novel.

[Darkwrath121]

  On 3/3/2021 at 9:42 AM, b1soul said:

@ DarkWraith121

 

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It's uncertain whether Valdor is the first Custodes...he's simply by far the greatest ever of their kind

 

That's my understanding any way based on the Valdor novel.

Yes, I was misremembering a line from

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Two Metaphysical Blades. Also, may want to put the mention of the Valdor novel in the spoiler! Potentially gives it away.

Edited March 3, 2021 by Darkwrath121

[Guest Triszin]

Questions

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What are the marines that are warp based? The mix of chapters?

 

 

-could the 8* be a reference to the surviving loyalists?, If you include Constantine?

_-------

 

Here's my theory. The city is actually built around the golden throne warp breach Magnus caused.

They are filling it with as many nulls as possible to prevent the breach from being used so the emps can focus his might

 

Edited March 3, 2021 by Triszin

[Umbros]

  On 3/2/2021 at 6:56 PM, Morovir said:

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"Immaterial College"

 

Oh

 

*sound of screams*

That scene was absolutely incredible.

[Brother Zeal]

  On 3/3/2021 at 7:17 PM, Triszin said:

Questions

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What are the marines that are warp based? The mix of chapters?

 

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The “visitors” comprise of a Thousand Son, an Iron Warrior, a Night Lord, a Dark Angel, an Iron Hand and a Raven Guard.

 

Apparently there were once more of their fellowship, but “Time, and war with the Tyrant, take their toll”.

 

Flew through this one in about 18 hours, it was a great read. The big reveal at the end was definitely a surprise, especially given that “he” was actually one of the people my mates and I had joked “hey, wouldn’t it be funny if it was [REDACTED]”. Welp, we’re not laughing now! Now we’re scratching our heads wondering exactly what “his” endgame is.

 

Stuff I liked:

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* Cherubael being the sassy spooky lad we know and love

* Psychic blanks aren’t invisible or awkward smudges on reality

* Eisenhorn being the savvy opportunist he is to use an attack against him to go to ground, it’s like second nature for this bloke by now

* Renner’s return. Good character, looks like Sean Bean in my head for some reason

* The as-yet unexplained puzzle of KIN_G _DO_OR, and what role it will serve going forward

* Ravenor going all-out with his Alpha Plus powers

* Ravenor’s dealings with the knife-ears finally having drastic consequences

* Patience Kys being angered by said dealings, but then everything seems to make Kys angry

* The scene where Eisenhorn and Ravenor come face-to-face for the first time in years

* Cherubael’s reaction to the news that five entire Eldar craftworlds are inbound

* The City of Dust was not at all what I expected. In my head the eerie BGM from that last scene in Astartes was playing as Bequin wandered around trying to make sense of what she was seeing

* Valdor is alive and still being an absolute champion

* There’s two very Hydra-like serpents coiling in the margins of the book’s cover art, so I suspect that the Alpha Legion are far more involved with the King in Yellow than Deathrow simply lurking with a robo-dogo

* Dan also seems to have found his balance when making references to our era of history. Stuff like QWERTY keyboards and emergency codes like 999/911 surviving millennia of galactic expansion, decline, re-conquest and Imperial censorship makes more sense than the walking bundle of obscure cultural references that was Kasper Hawser

 

Stuff I didn’t quite enjoy:

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* Apparently Pariahs can now completely nullify both the Red Thirst and the Black Rage. Have we seen this before? How have the Blood Angels not worked this out before now and built their own Distaff/Maze Undue to treat these conditions?

* Everything about Comus Nocturnus (“revelry in the night”?) so far. The way he can somehow smell Bequin’s blood in a city that must surely have a population of several million, and swoops in to back her up like some sort of nude transhuman attack pigeon whenever she bleeds (that could get very awkward). I really hope we find out more about this lad in the next book and that he gets some character development, because throughout this novel he’s just Bequin’s personal deus ex machina button.

* Ravenor’s absolute certainty that one of the Immaterial College lads is from Prospero purely because of his accent. That planet burned 10,000 years ago and most of its survivors are dusty golems famed for their limited vocabulary, so how would Ravenor know what a Prosperine accent sounded like?

* When the Immaterial College try to enter Ravenor’s warded chamber by gently tapping and knocking at windows and doors like your great-grandma at a seance. It’s extremely genteel and doesn’t fit them at all when we find out what they really are.

* Kys’ casual reference to Deathrow as an “Alpharian Twin”. Metagaming a bit there.

 

Just got Pariah from Audible, so I’m looking forward to going through that again. My main question now is... Pandaemonium when??

[Sandlemad]

  On 3/4/2021 at 2:06 PM, Brother Zeal said:

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* When the Immaterial College try to enter Ravenor’s warded chamber by gently tapping and knocking at windows and doors like your great-grandma at a seance. It’s extremely genteel and doesn’t fit them at all when we find out what they really are.

 

I agree with the majority of your dislikes here but this, 

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I quite liked. They were eerie in their politeness and their inhuman insistence in a way that worked for me. They were something so new and unclear - Abnett really tossed a lot of new balls in the air in this book, come to think of it - that finding out that they were 'just' a gang of (heresy-era?) astartes was a disappointment. It's going to tie in with Valdor in some fashion and could well be interesting but I suspect it will always fall short of that initial potential for me.

[Apothecary Vaddon]

  On 3/4/2021 at 2:06 PM, Brother Zeal said:

 

Stuff I didn’t quite enjoy:

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* Apparently Pariahs can now completely nullify both the Red Thirst and the Black Rage. Have we seen this before? How have the Blood Angels not worked this out before now and built their own Distaff/Maze Undue to treat these conditions?

 

 

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Well, given the propensity of Blanks being exceedingly rare and likely no real BA deployments (I don't think they've ever been mentioned in the series outside of Penitent?) anywhere even near the Helican subsector, that's not terribly surprising, in terms of keeping a team of blanks on retainer. Like they'd have to dedicate serious resources to assemble and maintain such a team, but why would they, when a) they keep knowledge of the Thirst and Rage secret at all costs and b ) both curses are kind of beneficial to their combat proficiency.

 

Besides that, tbh I feel like it's not really something that is surprising in terms of the effect it has on afflicted marines, since it's already been mentioned in previous works that both appear to be Warp-related afflictions for Sanguinius' line, so something that neutralizes the warp would naturally have the same effect on a warp-curse like the Thrist and Rage.

Edited March 5, 2021 by Apothecary Vaddon

[Fire Golem]

Jesus Christ that was a ride. I am, as the kids say, shook. 

[DarkChaplain]

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Looking back, I wonder how much of the delay for Penitent was down to Abnett getting that permission from the IP overlords, and Black Library coordinating to seed some hints over the last few years. Because really, there's no way in hell stuff like Two Metaphysical Blades, the mentions of Valdor's MIA status, the Enuncia-mentions in Mortis and so forth would add up so well with what Abnett is building now.

 

Two Metaphysical Blades in particular really feels like a fluff piece that had no real point on its own as part of the Heresy when it was published. It feels detached, something that could have been worked easily into the Valdor novel; we knew about Russ's spear through Wolfbane, and there wasn't really any prior info about Valdor having one, too, in the novel series, and the detail was only added in Inferno for the Black Books' Valdor entry at all, iirc.

 

 

Looking at Mortis, which I have only read notes on, it seems like the Emperor really wanted Enuncia for himself in the setting's prehistory. So Valdor seemingly going for it would fit that, especially when he's claiming faith in the Emperor's long-term planning skills, yet secretly unsure.

[Guest Triszin]

  On 3/5/2021 at 6:22 PM, DarkChaplain said:

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Looking back, I wonder how much of the delay for Penitent was down to Abnett getting that permission from the IP overlords, and Black Library coordinating to seed some hints over the last few years. Because really, there's no way in hell stuff like Two Metaphysical Blades, the mentions of Valdor's MIA status, the Enuncia-mentions in Mortis and so forth would add up so well with what Abnett is building now.

 

Two Metaphysical Blades in particular really feels like a fluff piece that had no real point on its own as part of the Heresy when it was published. It feels detached, something that could have been worked easily into the Valdor novel; we knew about Russ's spear through Wolfbane, and there wasn't really any prior info about Valdor having one, too, in the novel series, and the detail was only added in Inferno for the Black Books' Valdor entry at all, iirc.

 

 

Looking at Mortis, which I have only read notes on, it seems like the Emperor really wanted Enuncia for himself in the setting's prehistory. So Valdor seemingly going for it would fit that, especially when he's claiming faith in the Emperor's long-term planning skills, yet secretly unsure.

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Ya, seems things are tieing together.

 

A. I do hope it actually is valdor.

- if it's a alpha legion ploy, abett books will be. Phil Kelly tier in my eyes

 

 

B. Giving valdor enuncia capabilities would be one way to super power him @and evolve him in the 40k setting, and to create " pysker equivalents for custodes".

- enuncia weilders

 

 

 

Edited March 5, 2021 by Triszin

[DarkChaplain]

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Regarding your point B, I extremely doubt this is ever going to happen.

 

Considering that the Blanks & Graels are supposed to be the speakers of Enuncia, if things work out as intended, we can safely discount the option of Valdor ever speaking Enuncia himself in any sort of battlefield fashion. We might see him use it out of desperation, perhaps, or as a final act, but not in the role of a Custodes Spellcaster.

 

Considering the general mechanics, role, cost and context of Enuncia in-universe, it's really not fit for tabletop use, at all. It's the language of making and unmaking, dimensions apart from psyker-powers. Keep it in the fiction, and far away from the game.

[Apothecary Vaddon]

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Also, having the entire band go into an extimate space could be a way to fast forward the entire gang into the Indomitus Era, which could be interesting...though again, I think it's just spitballing as to whether this will have actual ramifications in the setting (having to go and get approval from the IP lords for this seems to indicate that...maybe it will? But it would mark an interesting departure from the norm, which is having big changes introduced in the rulebooks then propagated out to the tie ins, rather than the other way around).

[Guest Triszin]

  On 3/5/2021 at 8:22 PM, DarkChaplain said:

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Regarding your point B, I extremely doubt this is ever going to happen.

 

Considering that the Blanks & Graels are supposed to be the speakers of Enuncia, if things work out as intended, we can safely discount the option of Valdor ever speaking Enuncia himself in any sort of battlefield fashion. We might see him use it out of desperation, perhaps, or as a final act, but not in the role of a Custodes Spellcaster.

 

Considering the general mechanics, role, cost and context of Enuncia in-universe, it's really not fit for tabletop use, at all. It's the language of making and unmaking, dimensions apart from psyker-powers. Keep it in the fiction, and far away from the game.

 

Question

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Can someone explain enuncia a bit more to me?

 

 

[Apothecary Vaddon]

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it's pretty much exactly what he said. A language of making/unmaking. Weird syllables that are incredibly difficult to master that have reality bending effects. Like psyker powers without the Warp.

[Knockagh]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa where’s my book? My kids go back to school on Monday which means I get to read at lunchtime and coffee time rather than have Ben and Holly as my my soundtrack. It better come soon

[Lucerne]

  On 3/4/2021 at 2:46 PM, Sandlemad said:

 

  On 3/4/2021 at 2:06 PM, Brother Zeal said:

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* When the Immaterial College try to enter Ravenor’s warded chamber by gently tapping and knocking at windows and doors like your great-grandma at a seance. It’s extremely genteel and doesn’t fit them at all when we find out what they really are.

 

I agree with the majority of your dislikes here but this, 

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I quite liked. They were eerie in their politeness and their inhuman insistence in a way that worked for me. They were something so new and unclear - Abnett really tossed a lot of new balls in the air in this book, come to think of it - that finding out that they were 'just' a gang of (heresy-era?) astartes was a disappointment. It's going to tie in with Valdor in some fashion and could well be interesting but I suspect it will always fall short of that initial potential for me.

 

It makes sense that they run on "fae" logic there, and gives them an air of being more daemonic/inhuman than what they once were.

 

Plus they try force and it doesn't work.

 

The commentary on the

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men of prospero

was also suitably thematic in its sinister undertones, showing a mix of knowledge and uncertainty. Edited March 6, 2021 by Lucerne

[Guest Triszin]

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Is exitent space, pocket space in the webway?