New Knight Castellan Revealed!

[CommodusXIII]

Fluff-wise, I seem to remember the plasma weapons carried by the Primaris as being souped-up by Cawl. The Castellan's plasma weapon would be of the old-school variety.

[Aothaine]

Oh and the plasma cannon is a worse rapid fire battle cannon.

 

Why are hellblasters AP-4 with a S8 option but a knight Dominus class weapon is as strong as a regular plasmagun?

 

I feel like they're banking on people buying the terrain peice. Maybe one mode will be max shots with every weapon.

 

 

Plasma is plasma. The only option for the S8 Plasma before supercharging is on Heavy Plasma Incinerators.

 

Plasma profiles that can be supercharged to add +1S and +1D, there may be a few that I missed here: 

 

Assault 2 S6 AP -4, D1

Pistol 1 S7 AP -4, D1

Rapid Fire 1 S7 AP -4 D1

Heavy d3 S7 AP -4 D1

Heavy 1 S8 AP -4 D1

Heavy 2d6 S7 AP -4 D1

Assault 1 S7 AP -3 D1

Assault D3 S7 AP -3 D1

 

Honestly, I'm happy we got the normal plasma stats and not the assault plasma stats. Besides we have better options for AT than Plasma with our Knights.

[PiñaColada]

Sure, but the plasma storm battery from the dark angels codex is damage 2/3 with otherwise normal plasma stats. I had hoped this would be the same.

[Marshal Reinhard]

I didn't think too much of the plasma weapon until compared to the RFBC. I think a lot of us were banking on it (the RFBC) getting another hit die, but that seems less likely as it would leave this (the plasma decimator) behind in the dust. 

 

I think they dropped the ball on the plasma weapon. Sure, it might not make sense to have hotter plasma without supercharge, but it does to have a bigger ball, ie more hitdice. As it is, it's arguably being outdone by the RFBC already, which begs the question "Why bother?"

[DeStinyFiSh]

Maybe the price will dictate the weapon picks?

[Marshal Reinhard]

Maybe the price will dictate the weapon picks?

 

What do you mean? The options available in the kit will pretty much dictate what the unit in game can take. Since the Castellan and Valiant are sepperate, it's possible they're locked into the specific loadouts we've seen.

[PiñaColada]

I think he means price as in points. The conflagration is probably stupid expensive (and worth it)

[DeStinyFiSh]

 

Maybe the price will dictate the weapon picks?

 

What do you mean? The options available in the kit will pretty much dictate what the unit in game can take. Since the Castellan and Valiant are sepperate, it's possible they're locked into the specific loadouts we've seen.

 

 

True that, sorry for the confusion.

You compared the RFBC with the new Plasma weapon and your conclusion was that the RFBC is the better option, so why bother.

I am just saying the Plasma weapon might be the cheaper option, so that a Castellan might have the better points/damage ratio than a Knight Paladin.

Not very likely, but I would not compare any weapons yet without having all the rules and point costs.

[Mushkilla]

I don't think I'm going to bother with the dominus. They are slow, and the better one (the valiant assuming you can't swap out the melta) if it has the same profile as the castellan is on WS4... 4 extra wounds isn't going to stop you from being terrible in melee very quickly (outside of hawkshroud). At least the super flamer is decent, but the harpoon gun just seems like a "get lucky" gimmick that just doesn't work against quantum shielding. Yeah not really seeing it. Maybe if I could swap out the harpoon for a melee weapon with some additional support guns.

 

So, now my hope is on the armigers being a dual kit and the new preceptor box.

[Marshal Reinhard]

 

 

Maybe the price will dictate the weapon picks?

 

What do you mean? The options available in the kit will pretty much dictate what the unit in game can take. Since the Castellan and Valiant are sepperate, it's possible they're locked into the specific loadouts we've seen.

 

 

True that, sorry for the confusion.

You compared the RFBC with the new Plasma weapon and your conclusion was that the RFBC is the better option, so why bother.

I am just saying the Plasma weapon might be the cheaper option, so that a Castellan might have the better points/damage ratio than a Knight Paladin.

Not very likely, but I would not compare any weapons yet without having all the rules and point costs.

 

 

That is a pretty good point. Fair enough. Rumor has it that RFBC dropped 25 points in cost. If my nagging suspicion is true (that the Castellan is locked into plasma + v.lance and Valiant is harpoon + conflag), then its entirely possible that we'll have a 0 point cost for all the main weapon, baked into the unit already deal (like the baneblades, the chassis is supposedly costing 500 on its own as it were) so it'll be hard to compare their points values if so.

[PiñaColada]

I don't think I'm going to bother with the dominus. They are slow, and the better one (the valiant assuming you can't swap out the melta) if it has the same profile as the castellan is on WS4... 4 extra wounds isn't going to stop you from being terrible in melee very quickly (outside of hawkshroud). At least the super flamer is decent, but the harpoon gun just seems like a "get lucky" gimmick that just doesn't work against quantum shielding. Yeah not really seeing it. Maybe if I could swap out the harpoon for a melee weapon with some additional support guns.

 

So, now my hope is on the armigers being a dual kit and the new preceptor box.

I share those concerns, the meltas on the castellan are stupid and I don't really like the stats of the harpoon. How fun is it to shoot a hive tyrant that still has a 4+ invulnerable at the end, which the person will reroll if failed? That weapon should also have forced successful saving throws to have been rerolled or locked the unit in place even if it just hits or something..

 

Also, with how ruins work in 40k close combat with knights is very limited. That said, I want a dominus class knight as a centerpiece model.

I'm still hoping for some more warglaive options/another armiger variant.

[Marshal Reinhard]

I can live with meltas on the castellan though I generally agree. They're stupidly expensive weapons for what they do, and having to take 4 of them on a unit where they may never see use is just..If they were a pair of multimeltas instead I would've preffered that since they'd at least be bolter range then.

 

I'm a collector and painter before a gamer though, and the environment where I do play in, I expect him to do just fine. But there are definate concerns being raised about these units, since while powerful they're looking to be silly expensive too.

[hermanista]

House Vulker - Reroll 1's to hit is shooting the closest target.

 

That would be my go to for the Dominus class.

 

I think I'd already decided that would be my main house detachment. If I ever got a Dominus (and Helverins are my priority for now) that would push me further that way unless therr are other rerolls 1's abilities in there

[Mushkilla]

If the Valient could have dual conflagration cannons... That would be something.

[Stray]

If the Valient could have dual conflagration cannons... That would be something.

 

Hmm. I think right now (and we've more details to come so this could change), I'd bring an Acheron over a Valiant:

 

• The two flame cannons are identical in terms of average wound output (though obviously if you're shooting at 1 wound troops, 3d6 hits will pull ahead slightly on average), but the Acheron is also waaaaay faster, and can do far more reliable hurt in melee.
• It won't suffer profile degradation as much (flank speed advance move rule), you'll still be shooting with it afterwards too now, thanks to the Raven trait.
• It's arguably tougher. (1 less wound, but it also has a built in wound regeneration ability).
• ...oh, and it's a LOT less points to field :/

The Conflag is a fine weapon, but I'm starting to feel much less impressed by the platform it's attached to - but, subject to change and all. Maybe we'll see more in the coming days.

[Plasmablasts]

It’d be nice if there were a rule (stratagem?) which allowed you to haul the target of the Valiant’s harpoon into within six inches of your meltas, for the coup de grace.

[sneakybamsen]

I want one of them. Not sure which. Probably leaning towards the castellan for my gun-line style list. Then going Raven trait for some more mobility when needed, which would aid my castigator get into combat, if there will be a charge stratagem upon advancing. Castigator because it looks so cool, and at least it brings some melee element to a 4-5 model list.

 

The armigers at such a reduced price should hopefully allow for my decked out crusader, castigator, castellan and 2 helverins. That said, it's only 6CP, so not fantastic in that regard.

 

But with regards to the valiant/castellan profiles, I'm certain there are things they are not revealing yet such as invul saves CC weapons and so on. Might come later, might also just be there when we get the codex.

[Heliomanes]

Points values and attached stratagems are going to be everything here. Little sense in doing a function analysis or setting your heart on one or none of them before we have the full picture. Cultists aren't very impressive, but with the infiltrate, shoot twice, and +1 to wound stratagems they become insane.

[Stray]

The more I 'theory-craft' stuff, the more I think some of the traits make some of the Cerastus Knights big winners so far... O.o. 

God help folk if they get a point reduction some time...

 

 

I've been doing weapons comparisons against the new Dominus stuff now we have stats for a lot of it, and figured I'd take a look at the Volcano Lance. I'm not sure how I feel about it for the points.

 

I think against a tank, it was pulling say three or four wounds ahead of say a Thermal Cannon - which was less than I'd have expected given the investment.

 

But then, it's designed to shine when you're taking on other Super Heavies - Titanic targets right? It seemed a bit much to stack it up against the Porphyrions Lasers, so I had a look at the Lancer's weapon. Lance against Lance, both with their very similar re-roll bonuses.

 

The target was an opposing Knight.

 

The Volcano Lance hits pretty big. 8 wounds knocked off a Knight on average after re-rolls, which is enough to cause some decent hurt.

 

The Lancers Shock Lance, especially once you factor in that no brainer Hawkshroud bonus hits for 17 wounds on the charge against a fellow Knight! And this with an average 24" 'charge' range now.

 

Now this is done for fun, and it's not really the best comparison. They're quite different weapons. But they do perform a very similar role, and when you look at the costs involved with fielding either...

 

I remain unsold on the Dominus class Knights at the moment. Convince me GW! 

 

(Edit: If the Lancers scary, make an Atrapos your Warlord, give it the Hawkshroud trait, charge it at a Castellan or Valiant from 24" away and watch as it puts out an average 28 wounds, killing it in a single turn of combat... Before doing this though, ensure you slap your opponent across the cheek with a glove while telling them; 'Sir! You are both a base cur, and a bounder! A cad sir! I bite my thumb at you sir! I bite my thumb at you!' Get's em every time.)

[Marshal Reinhard]

I think a potential ace in the hole for the castellan is the terrain piece. Planting him there should potentially remove the worst part of his loadout, the variable nature of his hitdice. 6 volcano lance hits is a lot more terrifying than 3.5 average. always getting 12 hits makes the plasma weapon respectable.

[Stray]

I think a potential ace in the hole for the castellan is the terrain piece. Planting him there should potentially remove the worst part of his loadout, the variable nature of his hitdice. 6 volcano lance hits is a lot more terrifying than 3.5 average. always getting 12 hits makes the plasma weapon respectable.

 

Yeah, true enough. I just wish/hope that Plasma thingy is exchangeable. You could do what you describe with a RFBC for a lot less, and it'd hit harder :/ - which is terribly sad.

 

The Volcano Lance isn't badly balanced really. It's kinda how you'd hope several other weapons which do seem rather out of whack would perform. I don't have an issue with it particularly.

[sneakybamsen]

I can see where you're coming from with the comparison to the rapid-fire battle cannon, they are similar, and to be able to do more damage than 1 per shot, the RFBC won't have to supercharge. That said, it is fixed D2 which most people seem to prefer to d3 damage, and the downside is smaller than with smaller platforms for plasma. I too had expected it to do more, but they might still have tricks up their sleeve, that we just don't know about yet, and the AP is better than the RFBC afterall. So yes, the RFBC might be lookin better now, but points, which aren't official yet, will determine if that is really the case.

 

Regards

Sneaky

[DeStinyFiSh]

If there are no other weapon options maybe there are some Relics youj can take in exchange.

[Marshal Reinhard]

 

I think a potential ace in the hole for the castellan is the terrain piece. Planting him there should potentially remove the worst part of his loadout, the variable nature of his hitdice. 6 volcano lance hits is a lot more terrifying than 3.5 average. always getting 12 hits makes the plasma weapon respectable.

 

Yeah, true enough. I just wish/hope that Plasma thingy is exchangeable. You could do what you describe with a RFBC for a lot less, and it'd hit harder :/ - which is terribly sad.

 

The Volcano Lance isn't badly balanced really. It's kinda how you'd hope several other weapons which do seem rather out of whack would perform. I don't have an issue with it particularly.

 

 

Hard to argue against. On the flip side, that means if your Dominus goes down but you retain the shrine, you can have a regular knight continue to make good use of it? :/

 

As for the weapons exchangability, I'm leaning towards looking at them like they're sets. Lance comes with plasma side dish, while harpoon has a flamer side dish. You want a lance, you get plasma, harpon gets more useful flamer since its got short range.

I might be running away in my own predicitions based on the sepperation of the kits here, but i'm not seeing them being exchangable, unless maybe the stabby weapon rumour pans out. And not sure I'd want one on a Castellan either, though the meltas might start making more sense.

 

We need some more comprehensive leaks now

[Charlo]

The Plasma Core rules combined with the Terrain will be what completes the picture here I think.

 

I despise the random number of shot weapons this edition that aren't flamers, as the possibility for my 600+PT unit to fire it's huge plasma weapon and only get the same effect as a marine with a plasma gun... Just terrible design really.