Stray Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Yup. You're both quite right. We're stumbling in the dark somewhat here, and that terrain piece could mean everything. I think I'm possibly most interested in what it will do at this stage. I suspect the Dominus Knight is going to be divisive as it stands. I'm certainly not feeling it's an auto include by any means, but a waste of points? I don't think that's clear either. 'Tis an odd one for me right now my friends. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/27/#findComment-5094135 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneakybamsen Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 I wouldn't call it an auto include. In fact no knights seem that way to me. I wouldn't say it needs buffing either, but for now my plan is to get one, as long as I can make it fit in 2000 points with my other two knights plus two helverins. That said, it's slightly more expensive financially than I had hoped it would be. I will most definitely have to be saving up for it, unless it turns out to be too expensive in points to be worth it, and I'll be getting something else. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/27/#findComment-5094145 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 That said, it's slightly more expensive financially than I had hoped it would be. I will most definitely have to be saving up for it, unless it turns out to be too expensive in points to be worth it, and I'll be getting something else. For me, the more exciting reveal will be the new Armiger Helverin. While the big fancy Knights are exciting and all that (more dakka is more dakka, after all), the "cost effective" little guys are your Detachment fillers and if those models get competitive long-range armament it could just be the fix we need to get the Armiger/Full Knight "feel" of the Squire/Knight concept in-game! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/27/#findComment-5094173 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermanista Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 That said, it's slightly more expensive financially than I had hoped it would be. I will most definitely have to be saving up for it, unless it turns out to be too expensive in points to be worth it, and I'll be getting something else. For me, the more exciting reveal will be the new Armiger Helverin. While the big fancy Knights are exciting and all that (more dakka is more dakka, after all), the "cost effective" little guys are your Detachment fillers and if those models get competitive long-range armament it could just be the fix we need to get the Armiger/Full Knight "feel" of the Squire/Knight concept in-game! Yup, I'd rather take the 4 Helverins than one of the biggies as I've said for a while. Not least because they're so cute! Lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/27/#findComment-5094180 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneakybamsen Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 If the Dominus pattern turns out to be too expensive in points to run my warden/crusader + castigator and two helverins in 2000 points, I think my aim will be 3 big knights and the terrain piece, if that has meaning to use with a crusader running RFBC. Of course you could get another two helverins, but that would mean a 1750 points force with terrain piece, as far as I can figure with the rumoured points costs. Then you COULD of course add a battalion of imperial stuff to take it to 2000, but that isn't really a knight army. Why am I so focused on this? Well, my castigator is by far my most expensive model, and I want it in there. Also I love the crusader in general, so that one has to be a part as well. One thing about the Armigers - no invul, so unless you stack up with that stratagem, they aren't really harder to kill than predators (apart from 1W I think) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/27/#findComment-5094204 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperialSquishiness Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Armigers have a 5+ invul Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/27/#findComment-5094207 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneakybamsen Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Quite sure the last time I played them they didn't, but that could be my memory or my opponent's... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/27/#findComment-5094211 Share on other sites More sharing options...
frosteldar Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 They have a 5+ Invul vs shooting, just like the big knights. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/27/#findComment-5094219 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiñaColada Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 I hope we don't end up with a situation where the forgeworld knights are just better than the mainline GW ones. Parity is fine but when a model is objectively better than the others and twice as expensive it starts to feel like you're sliding in on the pay-to-win scale. Not that price is the issue for me personally, I just dislike the design and resin. I'd say forgeworld currently has some models that are just better than GW equivalents. And a lot of models that are straight terrible rules wise or just with obtuse mechanics. I don't have the greatest confidence in their rules team. It's great if they're filling another niche though and I hope they can make that happen. Also, I don't think the terrain piece is going to max out random number of shots. I'd wager it's roll another d6 and dicard the lowest result. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/27/#findComment-5094230 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneakybamsen Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 The rumoured points cost then is ridiculous, 60 points cheaper than in forgebane. So, depending on the guns, you've got something that is a lot tougher than a dreadnought for about the same points. And it should put out similar or better dakka. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/27/#findComment-5094234 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermanista Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Just been told by non regular source that Helverin sprue has been seen in stores. No alt builds on them, just the autocannons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/27/#findComment-5094235 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneakybamsen Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 I hope we don't end up with a situation where the forgeworld knights are just better than the mainline GW ones. Parity is fine but when a model is objectively better than the others and twice as expensive it starts to feel like you're sliding in on the pay-to-win scale. Not that price is the issue for me personally, I just dislike the design and resin. I'd say forgeworld currently has some models that are just better than GW equivalents. And a lot of models that are straight terrible rules wise or just with obtuse mechanics. I don't have the greatest confidence in their rules team. It's great if they're filling another niche though and I hope they can make that happen. Also, I don't think the terrain piece is going to max out random number of shots. I'd wager it's roll another d6 and dicard the lowest result. With the rumoured points drop, there is no risk that will happen. plastic knights are getting cheaper, as are some of their weapons.The foreworld ones already look a tad expensive to me when considering their output, but each to his own, I guess. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/27/#findComment-5094236 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiñaColada Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Just been told by non regular source that Helverin sprue has been seen in stores. No alt builds on them, just the autocannons. Hmm, that's a bit sad then. No leaked rules I assume? They have to be a bit better than normal autocannons, they look pretty big Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/27/#findComment-5094237 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BolterZorro Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Just been told by non regular source that Helverin sprue has been seen in stores. No alt builds on them, just the autocannons. can we build an armiger with a mix of autocanon and some weapons of forgebane? (rule wise) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/27/#findComment-5094240 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiñaColada Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Just been told by non regular source that Helverin sprue has been seen in stores. No alt builds on them, just the autocannons. can we build an armiger with a mix of autocanon and some weapons of forgebane? (rule wise) I'd assume no, because those are helverins and not warglaives. Two different datasheets Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/27/#findComment-5094241 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BolterZorro Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 that is unfortunate: LoW without customisation of weapons.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/27/#findComment-5094248 Share on other sites More sharing options...
frosteldar Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Just been told by non regular source that Helverin sprue has been seen in stores. No alt builds on them, just the autocannons. can we build an armiger with a mix of autocanon and some weapons of forgebane? (rule wise) I'd assume no, because those are helverins and not warglaives. Two different datasheets Yeah, I suspect this is the case. We get one armiger for anti-hordes and one for anti-tank/CC. A bit disappointing, but perhaps that leaves the door open for introducing new versions later? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/27/#findComment-5094251 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stray Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 I hope we don't end up with a situation where the forgeworld knights are just better than the mainline GW ones. Parity is fine but when a model is objectively better than the others and twice as expensive it starts to feel like you're sliding in on the pay-to-win scale. Not that price is the issue for me personally, I just dislike the design and resin. I'd say forgeworld currently has some models that are just better than GW equivalents. And a lot of models that are straight terrible rules wise or just with obtuse mechanics. I don't have the greatest confidence in their rules team. It's great if they're filling another niche though and I hope they can make that happen. Also, I don't think the terrain piece is going to max out random number of shots. I'd wager it's roll another d6 and dicard the lowest result. Hard to say. This is the wording of what GW said re: the terrain: "The Sacristan Forgeshrine is a battlefield repair-and-reload station that’s a great choice in any Imperial Knights army. Used defensively, you’ll be able to keep your Knights in the fight for longer. Used offensively, you can ensure that your weapons with a random number of shots (like the volcano lance wielded by the new Knight Castellan) always perform at maximum effectiveness." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/27/#findComment-5094252 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermanista Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Step forth Forgeworld.... For bother Armiger and Dominus classes... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/27/#findComment-5094253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
frosteldar Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 that is unfortunate: LoW without customisation of weapons.... True, though we can take 3 armigers in one LoW slot. Numbers and mixed roles will still be helpful. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/27/#findComment-5094254 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Reinhard Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Also, I don't think the terrain piece is going to max out random number of shots. I'd wager it's roll another d6 and dicard the lowest result. Well I was going after this wording specifically from the first WC article: "Used offensively, you can ensure that your weapons with a random number of shots (like the volcano lance wielded by the new Knight Castellan) always perform at maximum effectiveness" EDIT: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/27/#findComment-5094256 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiñaColada Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Also, I don't think the terrain piece is going to max out random number of shots. I'd wager it's roll another d6 and dicard the lowest result. Well I was going after this wording specifically from the first WC article: "Used offensively, you can ensure that your weapons with a random number of shots (like the volcano lance wielded by the new Knight Castellan) always perform at maximum effectiveness" EDIT: Oh, I understand where you got the idea from. I just think that's a little GW hyperbole. I don't have anything to back that up but I just doubt it will automatically max our random number of shots, along with the rumoured effects of reloading missiles and make you function like you're in the top bracket. Expect less from it, way less I'd say Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/27/#findComment-5094260 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stray Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Also, I don't think the terrain piece is going to max out random number of shots. I'd wager it's roll another d6 and dicard the lowest result. Well I was going after this wording specifically from the first WC article: "Used offensively, you can ensure that your weapons with a random number of shots (like the volcano lance wielded by the new Knight Castellan) always perform at maximum effectiveness" EDIT: Oh, I understand where you got the idea from. I just think that's a little GW hyperbole. I don't have anything to back that up but I just doubt it will automatically max our random number of shots, along with the rumoured effects of reloading missiles and make you function like you're in the top bracket. Expect less from it, way less I'd say You could be right. Hell we had 'the most damaging weapon ever seen in 40K' yesterday after all :P The wording carries an implication, but it's not clear as to how anything works at all. It's still the element I think i'm most interested in seeing the rules for at present... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/27/#findComment-5094273 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiñaColada Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 You could be right. Hell we had 'the most damaging weapon ever seen in 40K' yesterday after all The wording carries an implication, but it's not clear as to how anything works at all. It's still the element I think i'm most interested in seeing the rules for at present... Exactly, might as well be a bit cautious with our optimism. I'm personally really interested in our relics, sure some of them will be close combat weapons but surely not all. There might be a better shield, and please please please, a relic plasma decimator that's not catastrophically mediocre. I know, I just told people to temper their optimism and won't heed my own advice :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/27/#findComment-5094277 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Reinhard Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 What was the wording we got from the rumors about the terrain? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345475-new-knight-castellan-revealed/page/27/#findComment-5094279 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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