New Knight Castellan Revealed!

[Charlo]

 

I don't think there is a relic Volcano Lance, I watched a breakdown of everything last night and it wasn't on there.

 

Stands to reason that there was one relic per Dominus Chassis (Conflag Cannon/ Plasma Decimator).

 

I was ALL for the Valiant but that Plasma Relic has got me thinking, not to mention the Harpoon while awesome, is super un-reliable - needs an extra rule.

 

I think saying the Plasma's output against a Landraider is an unfair picture, you'll be shooting the VL at that for a lot more damage while the plasma uses it's S8 -4 2D to ruin any medium infantry/ vehicles it chooses. Hardly any reason to overcharge it either at that point too.

 

That's just it though, number of shots is killing you there. 2 damage is no better than 1 vs an MEQ, and you could simply overcharge the basic version vs 2 wound infantry - 3 wound infantry is quite a rarity still, so that's a seriously narrow application. 'Tis why I picked a bigger target - you can see the wound potential that much more clearly.

 

I'd really rather have had a focused anti-infantry weapon than the RFBC of plasma. Tends to be jack of all trades, master of none you know?

 

Totally, it's certainly a harder sell and a more generalist weapon, but its the combo of 2D + S8 that really makes it shine. Means you wound most infantry on a 2+ and have the wounds to go through any FNP like mechanics quite easily. People overcharge Hellblasters for a reason!

 

Anything T7 or less without an invuln is taking a large chunk of damage due to the AP.

 

The 2D6 shots hurt it, making it real swingy though. I would've preferred heavy 7 and just average it all game or a mechanic for doing more hits to larger units like some other "blast" weapons of yore.

[Stray]

The relic weapon being 3d6, discard the lowest like the relic RFBC may have been better also. But yes, I fully agree Charlo. I have no issue with the profile really, it's that horribly inconsistent number of shots. The RFBC is actually really quite respectable if you can just get past that initial 2D6 roll for something more consistent.

[PiñaColada]

Personally I'n not usually a fan of generalist weapons but Knights are somewhat of an exception. If you're facing a tank heavy army and all of your legit anti-tank is bound up in one knight, it's going to be focus fired on and you're now in trouble. Having all weapons be specialised is probably better in overall output but against certain types of armies some of those guns are just wasted whereas the double duty guns will always have a target. 

 

I'll take the flexibility even if it costs me some damage output.

[Lysere]

There were some specific examples given where you could take 3x Armigers for example and get CP, but not any traits because they weren't in a Lance.

 

'Knight Lances: If your army is Battle-forged, select one model from every Imperial Knights detachment. Those models gain the Character keyword. If you have at least three of Dominus and/or Questoris class knights in the detachment in any combination, you gain the listed Command Benefits'

 

Dunno... everything is being so badly worded and inconsistent in the reviews :/

Honestly those examples might be legal by RAW but they dont feel like they're in the spirit of the rules since it requires taking knights by not using the knight keywords.

[Stray]

 

There were some specific examples given where you could take 3x Armigers for example and get CP, but not any traits because they weren't in a Lance.

 

'Knight Lances: If your army is Battle-forged, select one model from every Imperial Knights detachment. Those models gain the Character keyword. If you have at least three of Dominus and/or Questoris class knights in the detachment in any combination, you gain the listed Command Benefits'

 

Dunno... everything is being so badly worded and inconsistent in the reviews :/

Honestly those examples might be legal by RAW but they dont feel like they're in the spirit of the rules since it requires taking knights by not using the knight keywords.

 

 

I don't disagree buddy :/

 

Honestly, with so much confusion around detachments the one thing that does seem clear is whatever reviewers are reading in the codex, it must be poorly worded to some extent.

 

Fingers crossed it makes more sense to the rest of us and remains usable eh?

[Lysere]

 

 

 

There were some specific examples given where you could take 3x Armigers for example and get CP, but not any traits because they weren't in a Lance.

 

'Knight Lances: If your army is Battle-forged, select one model from every Imperial Knights detachment. Those models gain the Character keyword. If you have at least three of Dominus and/or Questoris class knights in the detachment in any combination, you gain the listed Command Benefits'

 

Dunno... everything is being so badly worded and inconsistent in the reviews :/

Honestly those examples might be legal by RAW but they dont feel like they're in the spirit of the rules since it requires taking knights by not using the knight keywords.

I don't disagree buddy :/

 

Honestly, with so much confusion around detachments the one thing that does seem clear is whatever reviewers are reading in the codex, it must be poorly worded to some extent.

 

Fingers crossed it makes more sense to the rest of us and remains usable eh?

I actually got to read the codex myself a couple days ago and it's not really confusing. Strikes me more as people not wanting to accept the fact that armigers dont grant cp. Which I'd prefer since I wouldn't have to bring allies if that was true but that's not how it works.

 

Going off memory here but the rule was:

 

If battleforged one knight in each imperial knight SHD becomes a character. In addition the SHD command benefit is changed to none unless you have at least three Questor or Dominus chassis. (Paraphrased obviously)

 

I didn't think there was anything in regards to how it was written to allow you the cp with armigers without bending rules a bit.

[sneakybamsen]

I think part of the confusion comes from us being eager to get the reviews, the reviewers going over the rules too quickly/lightly before doing the reviews to rush them out, and thereby not checking if they got them right. I can live with the fact that you only get traits if you have 3+ big guys in a detachment. It's perhaps a bit rough, but we're talking big guys here, and getting traits for just bringing one model, that'd be too easy. As long as you can sacrifice the trait on a few armigers to get a +3 CP SHD, you're OK. No doubt, guard battalion is better and cheaper, but that makes it not a pure knights force, and they don't quite bring the hurt like 3 armigers. Remember custodes? They have the same kind of issue with command points.

 

I first watched the deep dive on BolS. Man, that was a mess. GNG was much better, though he talks rather quickly at times.

 

Right now, I'm trying to hold my breath till we get the actual frikkin' book.

[Stray]

 

 

 

There were some specific examples given where you could take 3x Armigers for example and get CP, but not any traits because they weren't in a Lance.

 

'Knight Lances: If your army is Battle-forged, select one model from every Imperial Knights detachment. Those models gain the Character keyword. If you have at least three of Dominus and/or Questoris class knights in the detachment in any combination, you gain the listed Command Benefits'

 

Dunno... everything is being so badly worded and inconsistent in the reviews :/

Honestly those examples might be legal by RAW but they dont feel like they're in the spirit of the rules since it requires taking knights by not using the knight keywords.

I don't disagree buddy :/

 

Honestly, with so much confusion around detachments the one thing that does seem clear is whatever reviewers are reading in the codex, it must be poorly worded to some extent.

 

Fingers crossed it makes more sense to the rest of us and remains usable eh?

I actually got to read the codex myself a couple days ago and it's not really confusing. Strikes me more as people not wanting to accept the fact that armigers dont grant cp. Which I'd prefer since I wouldn't have to bring allies if that was true but that's not how it works.

 

Going off memory here but the rule was:

 

If battleforged one knight in each imperial knight SHD becomes a character. In addition the SHD command benefit is changed to none unless you have at least three Questor or Dominus chassis. (Paraphrased obviously)

 

I didn't think there was anything in regards to how it was written to allow you the cp with armigers without bending rules a bit.

 

 

Well, I'm going hope your memory is correct :)

 

A lot of the confusion is the writers fault from that initial stream. Some of what he said was just... stupid. I'll replay it and quote him directly and you'll see what I mean. O.o

[Aegir_Einarsson]

So as I understand it correct, you can peek SHD with one crusader two helverins, i don’t have CP bit i can still make one of them character, take relics, have him house tradition And use stratagems?

Also question Every knight in detachment must be from the same household? For example crusader from one And helverins from another?

[Lysere]

So as I understand it correct, you can peek SHD with one crusader two helverins, i don’t have CP bit i can still make one of them character, take relics, have him house tradition And use stratagems?

Also question Every knight in detachment must be from the same household? For example crusader from one And helverins from another?

Unless I missed a line somewhere knights will always choose an allegiance and a household. Like others if you want the full benefits they need to be the same.

 

In your example make them the same household and they get the household rules. The crusader could be made a character and your warlord since he's part of an imperial knight super heavy detachment. Take some allies for cp and you're golden.

 

My question is how the heck can you take imperial knights as anything other than imperial knights for the detachment trick some say you can do. I just dont understand how that's a thing since all knights are part of the same faction. If they're not part of the same household then they'll share an allegiance, or failing that a faction.

[Marshal Reinhard]

I believe this is the exact wording: 

 

Knight Lances 

If your army is Battle-forged, select one model in each IMPERIAL KNIGHTS Super-heavy Detachment in your army. Each model you selected gains the CHARACTER keyword. However, the Command Benefit of each Imperial Knights Super-heavy Detachment is changed to 'None' unless it contains any combination of at least three QUESTORIS CLASS and/or DOMINUS CLASS units.

[Aegir_Einarsson]

Probably I’ll use hawkshroud all day long because i like durability.

[PiñaColada]

Command benefit only refers to CP and not traits, correct?

[General Strike]

 

 

 

 

 

There were some specific examples given where you could take 3x Armigers for example and get CP, but not any traits because they weren't in a Lance.

 

'Knight Lances: If your army is Battle-forged, select one model from every Imperial Knights detachment. Those models gain the Character keyword. If you have at least three of Dominus and/or Questoris class knights in the detachment in any combination, you gain the listed Command Benefits'

 

Dunno... everything is being so badly worded and inconsistent in the reviews :/

Honestly those examples might be legal by RAW but they dont feel like they're in the spirit of the rules since it requires taking knights by not using the knight keywords.

I don't disagree buddy :/

 

Honestly, with so much confusion around detachments the one thing that does seem clear is whatever reviewers are reading in the codex, it must be poorly worded to some extent.

 

Fingers crossed it makes more sense to the rest of us and remains usable eh?

I actually got to read the codex myself a couple days ago and it's not really confusing. Strikes me more as people not wanting to accept the fact that armigers dont grant cp. Which I'd prefer since I wouldn't have to bring allies if that was true but that's not how it works.

 

Going off memory here but the rule was:

 

If battleforged one knight in each imperial knight SHD becomes a character. In addition the SHD command benefit is changed to none unless you have at least three Questor or Dominus chassis. (Paraphrased obviously)

 

I didn't think there was anything in regards to how it was written to allow you the cp with armigers without bending rules a bit.

Well, I'm going hope your memory is correct :)

 

A lot of the confusion is the writers fault from that initial stream. Some of what he said was just... stupid. I'll replay it and quote him directly and you'll see what I mean. O.o

Not to mention that they gave Duncan 9 CP in the streamed match, where he brought a lance of three questoris and a SHD of a castellan and two armigers. So....who knows?

[Aegir_Einarsson]

As I understand it yes.

[Stray]

I believe this is the exact wording: 

 

Knight Lances 

If your army is Battle-forged, select one model in each IMPERIAL KNIGHTS Super-heavy Detachment in your army. Each model you selected gains the CHARACTER keyword. However, the Command Benefit of each Imperial Knights Super-heavy Detachment is changed to 'None' unless it contains any combination of at least three QUESTORIS CLASS and/or DOMINUS CLASS units.

 

Yeah, you can see the Lance wording on the preview image of the codex. Probably what we need to see is the text above and below it where it calls out tradition info. That's not legible :/

 

My feeling is that traditions will just work off of 'Household' as a keyword, same as they do for everything else, and that people have just been sowing confusion unintentionally by not being clear in reviews. But surety will only come with the codex :/

Command benefit only refers to CP and not traits, correct?

 

Probably PC, yes.

 

Examples are a real mess though everywhere, so heads are spinning (mine included tbh).

[Lysere]

Command benefits refers to the ones listed for the detachment, so the cp in this case.

 

As for the stream just chalk it up to them just having fun and making the game interesting.

[Charlo]

Worst comes to the worst, a minimum Battalion of Ad Mech is 152-167pts (Rangers VS Vanguard) and that nets you 5CP and canticles on a Knight for a CP, not bad. Though obviously only on a Knight in it's own detachment (or Canticles doesn't work...)!

 

With the points drop on the Armigers i'll more than likely be bringing an Enginseer and 15 Vanguard in my 1K along with the two Amigers and a Styrix.

[hermanista]

 

 

[PiñaColada]

A minimum admech battalion is more than that. 2x 47 points plus 3x 35 points. It's 199 points

[Aegir_Einarsson]

Hermanista-> it is reality:):):)

 

I would Also take guard batalion.

[LucidNinja]

OK so the only rule I need clarification on now is IF a knight in an aux detachment can use IK strats? As far as I can tell I would get the house trait (not mentioned as being part of a lance detachment)

 

I'm really in 2 minds now, I have 750 points to ally in, I could go 2x warglaves and a warden OR a Castellan and some extras in my Primaris force.

[Charlo]

A minimum admech battalion is more than that. 2x 47 points plus 3x 35 points. It's 199 points

 

AH CRAP you need two priests don't you....

[sneakybamsen]

Just like legion traits, it's the same across detachments. So you could have 3 knights in a lance getting traits and CP and making one a character, and 3 others in another lance getting the same with a different trait.

[The Grim Badger]

I'm going to Warhammer World in three weeks time for the 40k Doubles, its 1000 points per player. If I take Knights it means I get no house trait or other advantages because you simply cannot fit 3 of the required knight types into 1000 points. *Slow clap*