Stray Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Let's talk about being creative, let's all do it creatively... So boys, girls and toasters, a thought. The shrine thingy vs hordes or low model count close combat armies using a Dominus. Opt to go second (or not have the choice either or) and park the Dominus in it. 18 inches is long enough when the horde or cc wants to eat You, take the relic conflagration cannon for added joy and wait. 18 reroll to wound shots on whoever dares gets to you first Hmm. That might be one of the few occasions when using the Shrine might not be a complete detriment. If you were to use it because you were planning to wait and overwatch anyway (maybe especially if using that whole 'overwatch on behalf of' ability.) I still think the shrine is essentially terrible, and even in the case you're pointing out, it's very niche, and may rely on an opponent being less than wise. For it to be at all viable, the shrine needs to not cause you to miss out on a firing phase. You just aren't going to recoup that damage because of one weapon getting max shots the next turn. The D3 repair is pitiful. You can get the same or better from various HQ units. I don't even need to break down how moving to a specific point in your lines, and losing shooting and combat phases isn't worth an extra 6" movement... I'm still hoping we heard wrong regarding the Shrine mechanics really as right now, it's one of the worst point dumps I've seen in 40K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Strike Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 A really good breakdown: Currently without audio. Does it offer clarity on these Lance formation CP issues? He says that if you take a household tradition then all your SHDs become lances. So if you want the 3 CP for bringing anything but three of the big guys, you have to lose the household traditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banis Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Ok i found a clear picture of the lance rules"issue". I am not sure i can post it there though.. but anyways..the only way for 3 armigers to net you any CP is if you take them as a non imperial knight heavy detachment.. they wont get any house traits or buffs. But it will give you 3 CP. From a soup point of view. You can take a knight and 2 armigers and make the knight warlord with a relic. It just wont give you any CP. But that is what soup is for right::/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stray Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 A really good breakdown: Currently without audio. Does it offer clarity on these Lance formation CP issues? Yep, it just did. Ok, so you CAN indeed get CP from taking 3x Armigers in a SHD. BUT, if you do that, you get no Knightly traditions and all the other stuff for them. At all. It's an either or deal. If you take one Questorus Knight and say 2 armigers, you get the Knight traditions and rules, but no CP. If you take 3x Questorus or Dominus you get the Knight traditions AND CP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stray Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 The rotate ion shield wording allows it to work on anything for 1CP, unless that target is a Dominus class. 3CP for those. Cerastus and Acastus Knights pay 1CP same as everyone. That's horrible for the Dominus :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Strike Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 So, I'm not buying any armigers. Should I pick up Renegade or a Castellan? I have a Crusader and a Warden, do I need more than one more questoris or dominus? I figured renegade cause it is limited and I can always grab a castellan later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aothaine Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 So, I'm not buying any armigers. Should I pick up Renegade or a Castellan? I have a Crusader and a Warden, do I need more than one more questoris or dominus? I figured renegade cause it is limited and I can always grab a castellan later. Ehhh I would say buy what you think is cool. You've already decided not to buy any armigers so you most likely won't be fielding an IK army as Armigers and Helverins are both amazing units in different ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Strike Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Not worth losing CP or household traditions to field them. I really liked Duncans army in the batrep, but...lances hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainMarsh Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 A Castellan and two other Knights are around 1400-1500 points depending on what you take. That leaves 500-600 points, which is enough for 3 Armigers, either in a separate detachment for CP generation (giving you 9 CP but no traditions and whatnot for the Armigers) or keep them in the same detachment in a single slot and have the traditions, but stay at 6. It is certainly less than ideal but I don't think it is a death sentence for Armigers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiñaColada Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 I'd rather starve myself of CP than lose household traits. There are quite a few good stratagems but I also feel like knights can do pretty okay by being cheap with the stratagems and skipping a lot of them. Both warglaives and helverins look to be solid units now, so they still have a place in the army. Extra relics and warlord traits are both cheap and they're also too fun to miss out on IMO. I still feel like the lance should give CP if you have at least one questoris/dominus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mushkilla Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 I still think the shrine is essentially terrible, and even in the case you're pointing out, it's very niche, and may rely on an opponent being less than wise. For it to be at all viable, the shrine needs to not cause you to miss out on a firing phase. You just aren't going to recoup that damage because of one weapon getting max shots the next turn. The D3 repair is pitiful. You can get the same or better from various HQ units. I don't even need to break down how moving to a specific point in your lines, and losing shooting and combat phases isn't worth an extra 6" movement... I'm still hoping we heard wrong regarding the Shrine mechanics really as right now, it's one of the worst point dumps I've seen in 40K. Well I see one use for the shrine. Gallant Torpedo. Deploy your galant next to the shrine. If your opponent moves towards you in his turn you just move and charge. If they stay back, refuel and move 18+d6+2d6 next turn (combined with full tilt). Basically you punish them for hanging back. EDIT: If you use the +2 to advance and charge warlord trait you could get a 18+1d6+2+2d6+2 charge. Make it even more reliable with Terryn. Then fight twice. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Strike Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Gallant fastball special? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiñaColada Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Initiate roadrunner protocols Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mushkilla Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 I'm also liking the idea of a Griffith gallant, with the +1 attack warlord trait (from the exalted court so he doesn't give up slay the warlord). 21 titanic feet attacks that hit on 2s... Interesting thought though just combining a gallant with a shrine and full tilt gives you an average 28" treat range (32" with the warlord trait). Makes for an interesting deterant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clingy Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 The rotate ion shield wording allows it to work on anything for 1CP, unless that target is a Dominus class. 3CP for those. Cerastus and Acastus Knights pay 1CP same as everyone. That's horrible for the Dominus :/ So I use that on a Porphyrion and it’s 1 CP, use it on a dominus and its 3? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stray Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 The rotate ion shield wording allows it to work on anything for 1CP, unless that target is a Dominus class. 3CP for those. Cerastus and Acastus Knights pay 1CP same as everyone. That's horrible for the Dominus :/ So I use that on a Porphyrion and it’s 1 CP, use it on a dominus and its 3? Yup! Makes complete sense dunnit? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Reinhard Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Well it makes sense why it ends up as such, because its clearly the result of the rules makers for the codices not bothering to acknowledging if FW exists or not. FW has to adjust to GW, never the other way around. So people with FW knights: make use of it while you can? Chances are you're screwed somehow so that you can't even target your knights with the stratagems etc... until FW updates and simultaneously makes it cost 5 for a porphyron :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clingy Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Well it makes sense why it ends up as such, because its clearly the result of the rules makers for the codices not bothering to acknowledging if FW exists or not. FW has to adjust to GW, never the other way around. So people with FW knights: make use of it while you can? Chances are you're screwed somehow so that you can't even target your knights with the stratagems etc... until FW updates and simultaneously makes it cost 5 for a porphyron :P As someone looking to purchase a Porphyrion I reckon Sod’s law means I will buy one and find it’s instantly disallowed in some horrific way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aothaine Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 I'm super happy with this codex. It looks like we can build Melee or Ranged or a bit of both and still be awesome. So far, it looks like we should be able to rock three knights in a 1750 list which is terrifying because if you go up to 2000 you're either adding 1-3 Armigers/Helverins or one more knight. The fact that we still have 3/4 of our power at 1750 is damned scary. We got dice! I'll be picking these up for sure. Not sure if there will ever be a need to have more than 20 of the dice though. So I want more than one set I just don't know how useful it will be to have 40-60 dice lol. In order to get the extra 3 CP at 1750 we need to run three big knights. Something I still need to look into is if at 1750 we can run Two big knights, two Armigers or Helverins then the 200 point IG battalion for the extra 5 cps giving the army 8 CPs. As GMG stated going Imperial or Mechanicus is going to be debatable. Both sides have really awesome rules. While Hawkshroud is my favorite house so far, Taranis is absolutely terrifying since they can have a knight come back up at the end of the phase then spend 1 CP and have that knight act at it's best profile for the turn. Amazing stuff! There is even a good case to take some of the other houses as well. The +2" to charge and advance within 6" is amazing for a force with let's say one big knight and four Armigers. At least I think you can do that because you still have to choose a warlord right and it doesn't have to be a character I think. Not to sure on this. But then you can just spend 1cp and give him the character profile from the stratagems right? Regardless this might be one of the most balanced codexes to be released. Sure there will be rules questions and such as always. But the fact that armies from this codex are going to be viable with multiple different builds is just outstanding. I hope everyone else sees this and rejoices at the fact of how good this codex actually is. GW has really knocked it out of the park with this codex imho. Edit: I know there are questions about Forge World and how they are going to be updating their knights. Give it time. I'm sure by the FAQ some of those questions will be answered as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mushkilla Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 I hope everyone else sees this and rejoices at the fact of how good this codex actually is. GW has really knocked it out of the park with this codex imho. Yup it looks like its going to be a really fun book. I mean melee knights are actually a thing! That in itself is awesome. I'm actually glad they didn't fix CP in the codex, as the issue with CP in 8th is a much wider thing and should be addressed in the core rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heliomanes Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2018/06/02/codex-review-imperial-knights-part-1-army-special-rules-stratagems-relics-and-warlord-traits/Reece's review is up. Clarifies quite a bit! Some really interesting combinations in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Since others have clarified the lance rules I'll mention the handful of things I found interesting. Helverins have an anti-air strat, Armigers can get a heroic intervention to aid big knights with a strat, Hawkshroud stratagem allows overwatch and a 2d6 heroic intervention that moves you closer regardless, Deathgrip allows you to crush lower strength characters and potentially get some more mortal wounds on tougher ones. The big two are the Warlord trait and relic strats. Both of them make the knight selected a character so you don't even need to use them on the same models depending on what you want to take. Heck for 2cp you can make a lone household knight a character and have a warlord trait. Shrine still seems meh but could allow for them interesting first turn set ups. Probably not worth it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneakybamsen Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Hmmm. I was set upon not getting that castellan. Now I'm back to considering it, after watching the GMG review. That plasma relic really makes it worth considering. Problem is getting enough knights to make a lance, while somehow getting CP to make it work. Not as a competitive list, but at least a list that can do something. Making it harder is the fact that my Castigator is my most expensive (and precious) model, and I want to bring it with my knight list. But that fixed 500 points tag makes that a tad harder, when you also want armiger helverins, and it seems you can't bring the FW ones as household knights and all that. Maybe later on, but at least not now. Hopefully the FAQ will hit soon, before I go make a decision to either get Renegade or Castellan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stray Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Hmmm. I was set upon not getting that castellan. Now I'm back to considering it, after watching the GMG review. That plasma relic really makes it worth considering. Problem is getting enough knights to make a lance, while somehow getting CP to make it work. Not as a competitive list, but at least a list that can do something. Making it harder is the fact that my Castigator is my most expensive (and precious) model, and I want to bring it with my knight list. But that fixed 500 points tag makes that a tad harder, when you also want armiger helverins, and it seems you can't bring the FW ones as household knights and all that. Maybe later on, but at least not now. Hopefully the FAQ will hit soon, before I go make a decision to either get Renegade or Castellan. The way I see it, with so much impetus toward games moving to a 1750 point limit now, you have to ask the following question: Is it worth spending roughly a third of your entire points total, and burning a relic, to get access to that particular weapon? I realise I'm oversimplifying things to quite an extent, and that there's more involved in that points commitment, but still... I'm not so sure you couldn't get a lot more for the points, which is quite a depressing state of affairs as far as the Dominus class is concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucidNinja Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Alright I have a question that is going to be very noob.. If I'm bringing a LoW aux detachment of a Castellan for my SM army can I pay 1cp to make it a character and then another to give it cawls super awesome plasma? And if so does it get a WL trait? I really want to add one to my army but it seems like they are significantly less effective as an ally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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