The Big FAQ: Chaos Changes

[Stross]

I am thinking about bringing The bastion now like in 6'th edition. Hide units behind and put some havocs or chosen inside, so it will make enemy busy. It is not need to be feared enemy alpha strike no more (forward operatives and tallarn stratagem excluded, but a little screen will do the thing).

Put the bastion near with some terrain and hide some vital melee units. 

Don't know, worth a try

[Ketzer]

Sorry, but I don't feel like we got nerfed too hard.

No Deepstrike into the heart of the enemy in T1? yes, this one stings - but  it hurts everyone and the plasma-terminator-bomb still brings the pain in T2.

You used Warptime to get off T1 charges? Move some Bikes and a Warptime caster on Bike / with Jumppack, cast warptime on the bikes and watch them go... T1 charge, like you wanted. Okay no T1 against carefully placed "far away" units but I can live with that since my enemy can't pull of the same trick. (no Flyrant in my Deployment Zone, before i even touched one of my mins)

The reason why I think that this is fair is this: Some armys were able to screen themselfs agains T1 Deepstrike/Warptime/Charges better (Looking at you, Guardsmen) then others (small Elite Armys) - and against armys that weren't able to screen their core units, this tactic was utterly devastating and no fun after the first time. Now they have at least one turn to get up with a plan before they get nuked.

 

 

The nerf of "Tide of Traitors" is only fair, considering you get more CPs from the detachments. It would be too cheap otherwise and maybe people think twice, before spamming 10 Cultist units because respawning them isn't so dirt cheap any more.

 

I guess every Alpha Legion player can't stop smiling about how powerful "Forward Operatives" just got - but we all know, that there isn't such a thing like an Alpha Legion. ;)

[masterstrider]

Okay, so I worked out a way to make Tide of Traitors work for a T1 charge.

 

Tactic is not valid - posted removed by author.

 

 

[Trevak Dal]

As per the faq for Index: Chaos, and further clarified in the main rules faq - Warptime no longer works on units brought in as reinforcements.

I wonder if you could drop a sorcerer down next to a unit that was already on the table and move them though (said unit would not have been in reserves, only the sorcerer)?

[masterstrider]

 

As per the faq for Index: Chaos, and further clarified in the main rules faq - Warptime no longer works on units brought in as reinforcements.

I wonder if you could drop a sorcerer down next to a unit that was already on the table and move them though (said unit would not have been in reserves, only the sorcerer)?

 

 

Yeah you can do that. You can cast spells when you arrive from Reserves.

[Stross]

The reason why I think that this is fair is this: Some armys were able to screen themselfs agains T1 Deepstrike/Warptime/Charges better (Looking at you, Guardsmen) then others (small Elite Armys) - and against armys that weren't able to screen their core units, this tactic was utterly devastating and no fun after the first time. Now they have at least one turn to get up with a plan before they get nuked.

 

 

The only problem that you need to have a lot of power points on the table. And against shooting army it will obliterated turn 1 or not going to even clean some screen. Who can do it? Bikers? Hellbrutes? I don't thinks so. 

 

I guess every Alpha Legion player can't stop smiling about how powerful "Forward Operatives" just got - but we all know, that there isn't such a thing like an Alpha Legion. 

 

It is still remain the problem of the first turn. If enemy have a shooting army and goes first, all alpha drop will be dead or too far away to actually take action. Or chosen with combi-bolters and power axes would kill enough screen. Or just berzerkes. But if not their turn, they dead or useless.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I played a 100% infiltrating army in the 3.5 codex, and the trick now is the same as the trick then: you need to present enough credible threat to overwhelm the enemy's response. If all you infiltrate is one squad of Zerks, then yeah, they'll get crumped for no return. But a big squad of Zerks, some Raptors, some Chosen, maybe a CSM squad if you're feeling cheeky? Hell, we can't teleport Termies but you can Infiltrate them so the Plasmanator-double tap is still alive AND it's easier for them to charge, too since they get a move first. Saturate the enemy response, and you guarantee that *something* will get through.

[Trevak Dal]

So can chosen be completely (as in all 5-10 guys) get upgrades now? So combiFlamers, bolt pistols and power swords all around?

[Blackheart1223]

They can all take a Melee option, but have the same restriction on special/combi-weapons.

[OnboardG1]

So can chosen be completely (as in all 5-10 guys) get upgrades now? So combiFlamers, bolt pistols and power swords all around?

Im going to read into this way too closely and predict that it shows us what the rumoured chosen box will look like.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

 

So can chosen be completely (as in all 5-10 guys) get upgrades now? So combiFlamers, bolt pistols and power swords all around?

Im going to read into this way too closely and predict that it shows us what the rumoured chosen box will look like.

 

Stop getting me excited.

[Trevak Dal]

They can all take a Melee option, but have the same restriction on special/combi-weapons.

Dang it, so close and so far away, but one step closer. Might consider collecting some more. I kept my zerkers (couldn't give them away, like my crisis suits).

[Akrim]

I still not very convinced about Chosen, theyre still 1W MEQs, so im wary of loading them up with a ton of combi-gear. Assault oriented might be okay, but again cant Berzerkers do this better still?

[Gederas]

I still not very convinced about Chosen, theyre still 1W MEQs, so im wary of loading them up with a ton of combi-gear. Assault oriented might be okay, but again cant Berzerkers do this better still?

Not if you're running a cult Legion like Emperor's Children. That being said, Chosen can ALL take power weapons with this new change. That means you can have, for example, 6 chosen all of them with power axes. You can then have one (or more) chosen swap out his boltgun for a flamer. If you don't mind the loss of a bolt pistol you can also swap the Champion's pistol for a combi-flamer giving the squad a bit more close range dakka.

 

That's actually a pretty nasty assault squad.

[Panzer]

 

I still not very convinced about Chosen, theyre still 1W MEQs, so im wary of loading them up with a ton of combi-gear. Assault oriented might be okay, but again cant Berzerkers do this better still?

Not if you're running a cult Legion like Emperor's Children. That being said, Chosen can ALL take power weapons with this new change. That means you can have, for example, 6 chosen all of them with power axes. You can then have one (or more) chosen swap out his boltgun for a flamer. If you don't mind the loss of a bolt pistol you can also swap the Champion's pistol for a combi-flamer giving the squad a bit more close range dakka.

 

That's actually a pretty nasty assault squad.

 

 

They could all take power weapons before as well. They just had to give away their Bolter for that so they couldn't trade it for combi dakka anymore. Now they can have both, power weapons AND combi dakka. That's all that changed.

 

Imo if you're going to use melee Chosen it's a no-brainer to give them at least a Combi-Bolter each for 2-4 S4 shots per guy. At 12" that's more dakka than Noise Marines with their Sonic Blaster for 3p more (Power sword included, otherwise it's 1p less) and far better in melee than Noise Marines with their puny S4 AP0 melee attacks.

The only advantage Noise Marines have over Chosen is the Doom Siren/Blastmaster and the Music of the Apocalypse special rule and the superior range of course (they're a ranged unit rather than a hybrid unit after all)

On the other hand Chosen can, if you want to pay more, take all the other combi-weapons instead of combi-bolter instead and up their ranged game by a lot (I wouldn't advice that tho ... maybe combi-flamer).

[Dr_Ruminahui]

 

They could all take power weapons before as well. They just had to give away their Bolter for that so they couldn't trade it for combi dakka anymore. Now they can have both, power weapons AND combi dakka. That's all that changed.

 

 

That's not quite true - before, the chosen you could give melee weapons came from the same pool of 4 that you could give combi-weapons to.  So, you could only have 4 chosen with power weapons plus the champ.

 

So, no change for small squads, but now you aren't restricted to 5 power weapons per squad, in addition to not having to chose between power weapons and combi-weapons.

[Akrim]

 

 

I still not very convinced about Chosen, theyre still 1W MEQs, so im wary of loading them up with a ton of combi-gear. Assault oriented might be okay, but again cant Berzerkers do this better still?

Not if you're running a cult Legion like Emperor's Children. That being said, Chosen can ALL take power weapons with this new change. That means you can have, for example, 6 chosen all of them with power axes. You can then have one (or more) chosen swap out his boltgun for a flamer. If you don't mind the loss of a bolt pistol you can also swap the Champion's pistol for a combi-flamer giving the squad a bit more close range dakka.

 

That's actually a pretty nasty assault squad.

Power Axe Chosen would still be outclassed by Possessed; 2Ws, ++5, +1”M. They dont have the combi options but...

 

Basic combi-bolter spam Chosen might not be bad though.

[Panzer]

 

 

They could all take power weapons before as well. They just had to give away their Bolter for that so they couldn't trade it for combi dakka anymore. Now they can have both, power weapons AND combi dakka. That's all that changed.

 

 

That's not quite true - before, the chosen you could give melee weapons came from the same pool of 4 that you could give combi-weapons to.  So, you could only have 4 chosen with power weapons plus the champ.

 

So, no change for small squads, but now you aren't restricted to 5 power weapons per squad, in addition to not having to chose between power weapons and combi-weapons.

 

 

True, tho I'd never consider big Chosen units anyway lol. 2x5 > 1x10. Better use stratagems and psychic buffs on other units than Chosen. ;)

[Scourged]

I keep trying to make them work in my head, because I want to like new Chosen, but... meh. Every comparison with other units I do in my head always ends the same way: they have potential to do more total damage than other units, but they will die faster making it irrelevant. And then you remember that Berzerkers are a thing, negating them further. Despite this upgrade for melee potential, they're still outclassed by the rest of the Elite slot. 

 

Other than now having free chainswords on a combi squad... I now feel that this upgrade really hasn't done much at all, realistically.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

=][= Enough with the trolling and flame-baiting. Emotions are high, we all understand this, but remember the rules of the forum and keep it civil. =][=

[Panzer]

I keep trying to make them work in my head, because I want to like new Chosen, but... meh. Every comparison with other units I do in my head always ends the same way: they have potential to do more total damage than other units, but they will die faster making it irrelevant. And then you remember that Berzerkers are a thing, negating them further. Despite this upgrade for melee potential, they're still outclassed by the rest of the Elite slot. 

 

Other than now having free chainswords on a combi squad... I now feel that this upgrade really hasn't done much at all, realistically.

 

The problem is that they're a hybrid unit now. They want to do melee and ranged so to not become overpowered they end up weaker than specialised units like havocs and berzerker. Specialication > Jack of all trades as long as you have enough units to cover the other tasks (which you usually have).

 

I think if it turns out that GW doesn't release anything for EC (please don't betray my hopes GW!) then I'll definitely take one or two Chosen squads with combi-bolter and power weapon with this change. That way I can benefit from the double shooting stratagem and the EC legion trait of always striking first on the same unit. It's not the best unit for those Stratagems and the EC Legion trait is pretty weak, but I like having a unit that can do both. :D

[Maschinenpriester]

Hey guys

 

I have a question on the Music of the Apocalypse Part of the FAQ regarding close combat.

 

Q: If a Noise Marine is slain whilst its unit is within 1" of an

enemy unit, can he use his Music of the Apocalypse ability to

shoot the unit that is within 1"?

A: Yes, but only with a Pistol.

 

Does this mean if Noise marine sqad engaged in CC with Unit A and a unit B standling like 12" away is it...

 

A: Still allowed to attack unit B with normal shooting?

B: Has to attack Unit A with pistol?

 

Thats not 100% clarified especially because of this:

 

Q: If a Noise Marine is slain in the Fight phase, and he uses

his Music of the Apocalypse ability to shoot an

Imperium

unit

and subsequently rolls a hit roll of 6+, does the Death to the False

Emperor ability then grant him an extra attack with that weapon,

even though it’s a ranged weapon?

A: Yes. In this situation, make an extra hit roll against the

target on a hit roll of 6+.

 

Whats your thoughts on this?

[Scourged]

Huh... I missed this before: a Decimator can now ride in a Dreadclaw. I mean, I don't really know if that's useful or anything now, but it's a nice change. 

[Panzer]

 

Hey guys

 

I have a question on the Music of the Apocalypse Part of the FAQ regarding close combat.

 

Q: If a Noise Marine is slain whilst its unit is within 1" of an

enemy unit, can he use his Music of the Apocalypse ability to

shoot the unit that is within 1"?

A: Yes, but only with a Pistol.

 

Does this mean if Noise marine sqad engaged in CC with Unit A and a unit B standling like 12" away is it...

 

A: Still allowed to attack unit B with normal shooting?

B: Has to attack Unit A with pistol?

 

Thats not 100% clarified especially because of this:

 

Q: If a Noise Marine is slain in the Fight phase, and he uses

his Music of the Apocalypse ability to shoot an

Imperium

unit

and subsequently rolls a hit roll of 6+, does the Death to the False

Emperor ability then grant him an extra attack with that weapon,

even though it’s a ranged weapon?

A: Yes. In this situation, make an extra hit roll against the

target on a hit roll of 6+.

 

Whats your thoughts on this?

 

 

To your first question:

Nothing about Music of the Apocalypse allows you to shoot non-pistol weapons while you're within 1" of an enemy unit. So definitely not A. It's B.

 

About the second entry. You can still use DttFE with your Bolt Pistol so there's nothing contradicting there.

[Akrim]

Working Warptime into a Rhino-borne setup seems a bit more attractive now - boost up 12" (advance or smoke) T1 then disembark out front 3" - Warptime 6" - puts you only a couple inches outside the enemy deployment zone for a T2 charge (unless theyre castled really deep, Hammer & Anvil, etc).