The Big FAQ: Chaos Changes

[The Nephilim]

I can’t seem to find the new rules regarding chosen war gear. Could someone link the new rules or let me know where to find them? Much appreciated.

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/warhammer_40000_chaos_space_marines_en-2.pdf

[Scourged]

I can’t seem to find the new rules regarding chosen war gear. Could someone link the new rules or let me know where to find them? Much appreciated.

It's in the CSM specific faq. Should be first page, right hand column if I remember correctly.

 

...nevermid. I was beaten to it.

[McElMcNinja]

So you start with 20 Poxwalkers and you have reserve points to buy more. You play DWA and gain 5 (paying from reserve points). Now those 5 have been paid for, so do they count as the unit and you only have to pay for anymore above 25 at that point or do you pay every time you go back above 20?

[Panzer]

Pretty sure the size of the unit on your list is what counts. So 20 it is.

[Mekhitar]

I was wondering what The point of taking reserve points for poxwalkers was, given the above, but I guess it at least gives you flexibility as to “which” unit of poxwalkers is getting the additional bodies.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Dunno if anyone noticed this in the context of the new FAQ, but Dreadclaws don't have to be deepstruck. They can set up on Turn 1 if you want, and they have a 15 inch move. They can also carry Terminators, Helbrutes, Contemptors, and Decimators, and can be Warptimed if absolutely necessary.

 

This sets up a really nice first turn move that can either be used to send an empty Claw forward to tie up enemy units while giving its former passengers a 3 in boost to their movement from disembark, or to get something really nasty closer to the enemy, protecting it with T7 and 10W and setting up an almost guaranteed charge on Turn 2.

 

I think there may be some strategies here, especially for anyone who can either Advance and Charge (Renegades, sometimes Slaanesh) or reroll Charge (Khorne). Might be a nice way to set up Plasma Terminators or Chosen in the absence of Warptime after DS. Throw them forward in the Claw Turn 1, disembark Turn 2, unleash hell, charge.

 

That's just a rough first idea. However, it's certainly cheaper and faster than a Land Raider, as well as being faster than a Rhino.

[Dragonlover]

How many guys in a dreadclaw, 10?

 

Dragonlover

[Scourged]

Yeah, I believe ten, or five terminators. One walker only, for sure. Kharybidis is up to twenty, but is only infantry now.

[Deadman Wade]

After the last FAQ I really struggle against Eldar. Can't find a way to put a decent fight against them, I got crushed by 3 different eldar list without doing any real damage.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

How many guys in a dreadclaw, 10?

 

Dragonlover

10 models, Termies count as two. Alternately, you can put in one Helbrute (not "HELBRUTE"), one Contemptor, or one Decimator. It can drop like a drop pod or set up. Moves 15 in with FLY.

 

As a note, they're far nastier in combat than people give them credit for, with 4 attacks at WS 3+, Str 7, AP-2, D2. Granted, they decay quickly, but they get wounds back fast too. The one time I used one in 8th, it was a serious pain for my opponent and lasted WAY longer than expected.

After the last FAQ I really struggle against Eldar. Can't find a way to put a decent fight against them, I got crushed by 3 different eldar list without doing any real damage.

What type of list do you run? It might help to see where the new FAQ hit you hardest.

[Khornestar]

Dreadclaw or a Kharybdis Warp Time-d with a heldrake friend flying up with it and charging turn 1 could be very fun.

[Deadman Wade]

 

How many guys in a dreadclaw, 10?

 

Dragonlover

10 models, Termies count as two. Alternately, you can put in one Helbrute (not "HELBRUTE"), one Contemptor, or one Decimator. It can drop like a drop pod or set up. Moves 15 in with FLY.

 

As a note, they're far nastier in combat than people give them credit for, with 4 attacks at WS 3+, Str 7, AP-2, D2. Granted, they decay quickly, but they get wounds back fast too. The one time I used one in 8th, it was a serious pain for my opponent and lasted WAY longer than expected.

After the last FAQ I really struggle against Eldar. Can't find a way to put a decent fight against them, I got crushed by 3 different eldar list without doing any real damage.

What type of list do you run? It might help to see where the new FAQ hit you hardest.

 

My usual list is 1-2 squads of CSM in rhinos, two squads of cultists, obliterators, 10 warp talons, plasma raptors, Daemon Prince with wings, jum pack sorcerer, chaos lord, lascannon havocs, heavy bolter havocs, dakka dreadnought and bikers. I wanted to use fast moving and deep strike units for target saturation, but even bikers and obliterators are dying like flies against bladestorm from the weakest eldar units like guardrians. Not being able to tie their units with raptors and warptimed Warp Talons really hurts, cause any eldar unit is a threat and/or hard counter to any of my units. Also, their hard-hitting units have 3+ save, whitch means that they can ignore raptors and bikers. Daemon prince eventually makes his charge, but gets detroyed by smite spam next turn.

Against IG, Necrons or marines the loss of T1 warptime charge isn't that bad, and I usually do well against any other army, but those pointy-ears are wrecking my Night Lords.

It looks like full gunline with 3 big cultists mobs is the way to go

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

 

 

 

How many guys in a dreadclaw, 10?

 

Dragonlover

10 models, Termies count as two. Alternately, you can put in one Helbrute (not "HELBRUTE"), one Contemptor, or one Decimator. It can drop like a drop pod or set up. Moves 15 in with FLY.

 

As a note, they're far nastier in combat than people give them credit for, with 4 attacks at WS 3+, Str 7, AP-2, D2. Granted, they decay quickly, but they get wounds back fast too. The one time I used one in 8th, it was a serious pain for my opponent and lasted WAY longer than expected.

After the last FAQ I really struggle against Eldar. Can't find a way to put a decent fight against them, I got crushed by 3 different eldar list without doing any real damage.

What type of list do you run? It might help to see where the new FAQ hit you hardest.

My usual list is 1-2 squads of CSM in rhinos, two squads of cultists, obliterators, 10 warp talons, plasma raptors, Daemon Prince with wings, jum pack sorcerer, chaos lord, lascannon havocs, heavy bolter havocs, dakka dreadnought and bikers. I wanted to use fast moving and deep strike units for target saturation, but even bikers and obliterators are dying like flies against bladestorm from the weakest eldar units like guardrians. Not being able to tie their units with raptors and warptimed Warp Talons really hurts, cause any eldar unit is a threat and/or hard counter to any of my units. Also, their hard-hitting units have 3+ save, whitch means that they can ignore raptors and bikers. Daemon prince eventually makes his charge, but gets detroyed by smite spam next turn.

Against IG, Necrons or marines the loss of T1 warptime charge isn't that bad, and I usually do well against any other army, but those pointy-ears are wrecking my Night Lords.

It looks like full gunline with 3 big cultists mobs is the way to go

Suggestions:

Heldrakes for Turn 1 tie up and screen destruction. DS Khorne Raptors with Icons, Contemptor or Decimator with Warptime and/or Butcher Cannon. Dreadclaws.Fill Rhinos with harder hitting stuff and have normal CSM's just camp objectives. More Psykers.

 

For bikers, focus on shot output at 12 in rather than HTH. 9 man with Twin Bolters plus 2 Plasma. Give champ a Combi Bolter. Mark with Slaanesh if that can fit your theme and shoot twice.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Dreadclaw or a Kharybdis Warp Time-d with a heldrake friend flying up with it and charging turn 1 could be very fun.

Actually building a triple Claw Warp Ghost army with 2 Claws of CSM and characters and one of Termies. Backed up by a Sicaran, bikers, Raptors, and a Jump Sorcerer. Everything except the Claws is armed so that it can put out at least some fire while Advancing and being Renegades, they can charge too. Bikers and one Claw (via warptime after unloading one unit to give them 3in bonus move) should get charges turn 1. Possible others too.

 

Hilariously, the Termies could actually crash in on Turn 1. 3 in disembark plus average 8 in move + advance, plus 8 in Warptime (keeping Advance), plus 2d6 charge. Depends on opponent setup.

 

Bikes might make it too with just advance.

[Khornestar]

Warp Ghost?

[Lord Abaia]

Warp Ghost?

They're the Flying Dutchmen of the Eye of Terror. They're pretty cool. ADB wrote about them in Black Legion, and I read that they were a favorite of Alan Bligh.

[Khornestar]

Ah, I've read the book but totally forgot what they were called. I thought it was a reference to something game-related that I'd never heard before.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Ah, I've read the book but totally forgot what they were called. I thought it was a reference to something game-related that I'd never heard before.

Yeah....Renegades that were created as just a paint scheme in 3.5, then got some more info in 5th edition. Forge World started adding fluff to them and similar chapters and it fed back to the studio and now ADB.

 

Fluff from the IA books says they're exceptionally aggressive raiders even for CSM and tend to favor heavy vehicles. So, fleet-based,aggressive, with armor? That became my list. Dreadclaws, Raptors, Bikes, and tanks.

 

It's also stuffed with Flamers and Meltas to synergize with the ability to advance and charge, and lots of mauls, axes, and fists because they don't get Vets of the Long War.

[Iron_Within]

I had great success with the Hell drake shutting things down in my game, is recommend getting one.

[Akrim]

I had great success with the Hell drake shutting things down in my game, is recommend getting one.

Since the Fire Raptor pts jack Im strongly considering. Can you elaborate on the performance?

[Iron_Within]

Yah sure. So what help likes are not are a strong unit to kill things, they are good at shutting down shooty units and picking off characters that surprisingly good assassin's if your opponent is not careful.

 

I play the 1500 point game against Imperial Guard. He had deployed 2 basilisks together with infantry. Because of the ridiculously fast Move of 30 inches I was able to bypass the Infantry for the most part using a multi charge to get within an inch of his basilisks shutting them down for a turn. In the same turn its shop the bale flamer into a heavy weapons emplacement killing a rapier. It is an annoyance the someone's lovely shooting line the sheer speed of it as always meant to have been able to pull off a turn on charge that has shut something down and annoyed the opponent. He naturally pull back from it and he bracketed it, which is then healed out of with its daemon engine ability and jumps to the other side of his deployment so on and roasted his Warlord because I'd thinned out his line.

 

In short it is a monkey Wrench to your opponent's plans rather than something you can build a plan around

[Redtoof]

Just wanted to take a moment to admire a distraction Heldrake that didn't immediately die after doing it's distracting work. He must have had one massive daemonic grin on his face. "Didn't kill me? You'll regret it!"

[Iron_Within]

It was because I focused my fire on his units that could hurt it initially. I mean he could have fired his other basilisk but he was trying to stop the two Rhinos with berserkers in and I'd bracketted it

[Sception]

that said, it isn't too hard to screen against heldrake alpha charges.  in fact, it's easier than screening against deep strike was, since you know what direction it's coming from, and you only have to keep it from getting within an inch of your vulnerable targets, rather than having to block out to [effective gun range - 8 inches].  I'm not saying the heldrake is bad or anything, just that your opponents will probably catch on and start screening their shooting line.  They'll have to invest in that screen, and constrain their deployment with it, so it's not a complete waste even then, but most of the time a heldrake won't get to charge two bassilisks, rather they'll be charging one or two throw away 10 man screens, or a huge bubble wrap blob when facing factions that have access to fearless blobs.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

There are work arounds, though. The Drake is a legal Turn One Warptime target if you have a jump pack or TDA sorcerer to drop next to it, so if your opponent has a linear screen instead of a screen in depth, you can handily leap over it.