The Big FAQ: Chaos Changes

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Heldrakes may be a thing again for first turn "tie up" charges to let the rest of our units close (like they were when the Index first hit). Dreadclaws and Storm Eagles should also get a second look, especially since Dreadclaws can now soak "interceptor" shots for the units inside (Forewarned, Auspex Scan, EWO, etc.).

 

Possessed in various conveyances might be worth looking at because of their high Move, which can help after disembark.

 

Bikers, especially Renegade Bikers can be nasty with Warptime if buffed/supported properly.

 

Finally, their high Move and a greater ability to spam Daemonforge with more CP makes me wonder about Maulerfiends and assault Decimators again.

 

Interesting times.

[Scourged]

Yeah, Bikers were something I was thinking about today... for maybe the first time in 8th. They're have the speed to move them up the board, and can pack a couple specials and a combi, on top of the bike's bolters. If left alone, they'll be a nuisance. If focused on, that's one less of your 'better' units being targeted. Either scenario offers benefits, and can prepare things for a turn two deep strike. Not sold on it yet, but it seems alright. 

[Khornestar]

Heldrakes may be a thing again for first turn "tie up" charges to let the rest of our units close (like they were when the Index first hit). Dreadclaws and Storm Eagles should also get a second look, especially since Dreadclaws can now soak "interceptor" shots for the units inside (Forewarned, Auspex Scan, EWO, etc.).Possessed in various conveyances might be worth looking at because of their high Move, which can help after disembark.Bikers, especially Renegade Bikers can be nasty with Warptime if buffed/supported properly.Finally, their high Move and a greater ability to spam Daemonforge with more CP makes me wonder about Maulerfiends and assault Decimators again.Interesting times.

I think the wording on the auspex scam will determine the thing with Dreadclaws, because passengers must disembark immediately if using them as drop pods (deep striking) and not starting them on the table.

[Panzer]

Yeah I think high movement units could be the key to secure a drop space for your reinforcements if you go first.

 

 

 

Heldrakes may be a thing again for first turn "tie up" charges to let the rest of our units close (like they were when the Index first hit). Dreadclaws and Storm Eagles should also get a second look, especially since Dreadclaws can now soak "interceptor" shots for the units inside (Forewarned, Auspex Scan, EWO, etc.).Possessed in various conveyances might be worth looking at because of their high Move, which can help after disembark.Bikers, especially Renegade Bikers can be nasty with Warptime if buffed/supported properly.Finally, their high Move and a greater ability to spam Daemonforge with more CP makes me wonder about Maulerfiends and assault Decimators again.Interesting times.

I think the wording on the auspex scam will determine the thing with Dreadclaws, because passengers must disembark immediately if using them as drop pods (deep striking) and not starting them on the table.

The FAQ rules that you can't shoot at passengers of drop pods with auspex scan.

[Khornestar]

Ooooh :cuss that’s awesome!

[Bloody Legionnaire]

How does a Dreadclaw use auspex scan? 

[Panzer]

How does a Dreadclaw use auspex scan?

 

... what?

[Khornestar]

In the interest of clarity, auspex scan is the stratagem loyalists would use to shoot at the Dreadclaw as soon as it arrives by deep strike, and not the passengers who are forced to jump out right away.

[Stross]

Still, no warptime for disembarked unit, so what are we going to carry in Dreadclaw or Haribda? Berzerkers with reroll of charge? I think bloodletters are more valuable here. 

So it must be some dakka guys, because we can put heavy support into Bastion or into ruins. Or just drop some obly. 

I thought about plague marines, but with warptime nerf grenade assault is not a thing anymore. 

Maybe new chosen can be handy, but it is needed at least 500 pts for this combo. 

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Berzerkers in Claws do fine, especially 2x5 with 3 Plasma Pistols and Icon each. You have 4 Charge rolls for at least someone to make it.

 

Bloodletters will get murdered by Dark Reapers with Forewarned or Tau with EWO. Against this strategy I mentioned, all they'll kill is the pod and maybe a couple Berzerkers on Overwatch. Then they die.

 

If the Claw survives the intercept, it can possibly charge too so that it can soak Overwatch. It's actually pretty good in combat and can gain wounds back. mine have done well in Assault.

 

And no, you don't need 500 points. 10 Chosen is 160. Claw is 130 now. 10 Combi-Bolters (2x5 guys) is 20. Drop in 2 Khorne Icons for charge rerolls and you're at 330 for 40 bolter shots to shred one unit, followed by around 30 Chainsword attacks against another, depending on who makes it. Add max of another 10 for World Eaters.

 

I play Iron Warriors, so for me all those bolt shots ignore cover, making them even better against chaff.

 

Alternately, you can use 1 big Slaanesh squad with 5 Combi-Bolters, and a Heavy Bolter and just fire twice.

 

And you don't always have to spend CP to help with critical Charge rolls. Use a Daemon with Gaze of Fate to reroll one die and then use a CP on the other if that doesn't work.

 

As a bonus, use a Heldrake to lock down important shooters first.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Also something else....20 man brick of Black Legion CSM with Mark of Slaanesh and Plas/Plas/Combi-Plas. Hit it with Prescience, Warp Time, and Delightful Agonies. It can Advance upfield an average of 9 inches, then go another 9 with WT because of the FAQ's statement about keeping Advance bonuses on additional moves (WT says the unit moves as if in the Movement Phase). Then it can open fire using the Legion Trait and maybe Let the Galaxy Burn. No double tap but still nice. Next round, survivors move up, double-tap twice (Endless Cacophony plus LtGB) and then Charge. That's a lot of dead chaff and a big chunk of tough ObSec bodies that your opponent has to deal with (thanks to Delightful Agonies). Meanwhile your other units can go do the real heavy lifting.

[ChazSexington]

Also something else....20 man brick of Black Legion CSM with Mark of Slaanesh and Plas/Plas/Combi-Plas. Hit it with Prescience, Warp Time, and Delightful Agonies. It can Advance upfield an average of 9 inches, then go another 9 with WT because of the FAQ's statement about keeping Advance bonuses on additional moves (WT says the unit moves as if in the Movement Phase). Then it can open fire using the Legion Trait and maybe Let the Galaxy Burn. No double tap but still nice. Next round, survivors move up, double-tap twice (Endless Cacophony plus LtGB) and then Charge. That's a lot of dead chaff and a big chunk of tough ObSec bodies that your opponent has to deal with (thanks to Delightful Agonies). Meanwhile your other units can go do the real heavy lifting.

 

I've thought about that for a while, but you don't have enough firepower point efficiency. Cultist bombs are simply better point for point. 

[Excessus]

But cultists also die insanely fast...

[Replicant]

Anyone put any thoughts into the Hellforged Termite for smaller units, possibly? Melta pistol type shot with a couple of combi bolters, 12 man capacity, 90ish points. Not bad.

[Panzer]

Actually now even less than before. With the beta rule the unit you'd embark in a Termite would see action turn 3 the earliest (turn 2 deep strike if possible, turn 3 disembark).

[Replicant]

Damn, you're right. Nevermind, was looking for a reason to buy one. Lol

[ChazSexington]

But cultists also die insanely fast...

 

You can take 3.33x as many Cultists per CSM. With plasma guns becoming the most commonly available weapon in the galaxy in 8th edition, you're picking them all up anyway. There's a reason nobody in the competitive scene takes CSMs - for pure points efficiency, Cultists do everything the CSMs can do, but more efficiently. 

 

While running 20 CSMs is feasible in a casual game, maybe even a semi-competitive game depending on the meta, but you'd get stomped against any form of competitive list. Russes firing twice, Cultists shooting them down (especially how accessible CPs suddenly became), Dark Reapers, Guardians, Gaunt bombs etc. 

 

I personally run 2x10 CSMs in my Red Corsairs list, but it's not competitive, even with a Chaos Lord and Sorcerer supporting them. However, I play Chaos Space Marines, not Cultists, so I'm stubbornly refusing to use Cultists exclusively in narrative lists.

[Deadman Wade]

I use one 10-man CSM squad in Rhino, just because I put a lot of effort in building and painting them. So far they are ok-ish unit with nice amount of plasma shots, but CSM are too expensive, squishy and slow (compare CSM to DE biker with 2W T5 18M, 6+ FNP for 17 points lol).

[Excessus]

I also run CSM but I run cultists too. Points aside the job they are there for (objective secured), the CSM handle so much better than cultists. If I bring them too far up the board they just vanishes in a cloud of blood and mist...CSMs, not so much...

 

 

Anyway, so it seems I was right in deciding to rebuild my old berzerkers then...time to dust off the old Dreadclaw as well though! :)

 

Hmm, 2x plasma havocs in a dreadclaw...

[Mekhitar]

Don’t take heldrakes. I have played all 8th as advance-up-the-field and they just aren’t worth it. They have a large base and your opponent knows how to screen; all you will hit is chaff, you won’t kill it, it will fall back, and you will get shot to bits (if lucky) or ignored (if the enemy is smart). The best you get is a distraction and not a great one.

 

Spend the points in extra rhinos instead for similar effect :p

[Panzer]

Don’t take heldrakes. I have played all 8th as advance-up-the-field and they just aren’t worth it. They have a large base and your opponent knows how to screen; all you will hit is chaff, you won’t kill it, it will fall back, and you will get shot to bits (if lucky) or ignored (if the enemy is smart). The best you get is a distraction and not a great one.

 

Spend the points in extra rhinos instead for similar effect

 

We weren't talking about using Heldrakes as heavy hitter. We were talking about using them to stop the opponent in his tracks for a turn or two so you can deep strike your heavy hitters more easily with the beta rules. That's an entirely different situation. ;)

[Mekhitar]

 

 

Don’t take heldrakes. I have played all 8th as advance-up-the-field and they just aren’t worth it. They have a large base and your opponent knows how to screen; all you will hit is chaff, you won’t kill it, it will fall back, and you will get shot to bits (if lucky) or ignored (if the enemy is smart). The best you get is a distraction and not a great one.

 

Spend the points in extra rhinos instead for similar effect

We weren't talking about using Heldrakes as heavy hitter. We were talking about using them to stop the opponent in his tracks for a turn or two so you can deep strike your heavy hitters more easily with the beta rules. That's an entirely different situation. ;)

Truth in distinction.

 

They won’t (stop the enemy), though, I don’t think - you can always fall back forward. :/

[Panzer]

They'd still have to get around that big base and stay more than 1" away. ^^

[Mekhitar]

Fair enough!

I was going to edit to add - it WOULD be suuuuper fluffy, too, since heldrakes often act as forerunners to such a strike from chaos ships. :D

[Excessus]

If the screening units fall back forward, your heldrake is free to pounce on it's intended target ;)