Codex: DW next week

[LucidNinja]

I'm quite annoyed that I may as well run my pure primaris army as deathwatch now. I'd be like 20 points "worse" off to be able to use SIA and from what I can tell more flexible worth while stratagems...

[Deathwalker]

I'm quite annoyed that I may as well run my pure primaris army as deathwatch now. I'd be like 20 points "worse" off to be able to use SIA and from what I can tell more flexible worth while stratagems...

Hence the term prima watch I guess :P

[Delta.Skies]

 

http://pro.bols.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/special-issue-ammo-rules-1.jpg

 

Full Bolger List posted on BOLS

Standouts are storm bolter and combi-grav. Combi-grav could mean we get access to more options.

 

EDIT: CHAPLAIN IN TERMINATOR ARMOUR? YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES, THE FIRST THING I'M HAPPY ABOUT. He is literally the only additional datasheet we got, and it's the one I wanted the most. So outside of him, no new units, brothers.

 

Edit 2: So bolter weapons are all +1 pts. Intercessors are only 2 points more than Veterans.

Slick regret canceling my order of the special edition chaplain in terminator armor for the low. And storm bolted now have sia now ... yay (also slick regret throwing sanguinary bolter arms on my cqc vets)

[Gunner00110]

Im loving everything so far, only issue is i would have liked DW to have got SIA on heavy bolters/infernus heavy bolters and got the mortal wound strat to go with it. Would have encouraged other builds over the old frag cannons.

 

Other than that pretty keen to work out what im going to spend my spare points on!! Might drop some tanks for dreads.

 

Also just for something different, Prometheus land raider with a captain as a warlord inside, all strats become 1cp cheaper..... could be worth a look into!

[Deathwalker]

I thought that was the hellfire extremis bolter? what carries that weapon?

[GrinNfool]

 

http://pro.bols.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/special-issue-ammo-rules-1.jpg

 

Full Bolger List posted on BOLS

Standouts are storm bolter and combi-grav. Combi-grav could mean we get access to more options.

 

EDIT: CHAPLAIN IN TERMINATOR ARMOUR? YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES, THE FIRST THING I'M HAPPY ABOUT. He is literally the only additional datasheet we got, and it's the one I wanted the most. So outside of him, no new units, brothers.

 

Edit 2: So bolter weapons are all +1 pts. Intercessors are only 2 points more than Veterans.

 

Bolt pistols are a point and a non optional for Intercessors, so that will make them 3 points more, assuming boltguns for both.

 

Opinions so far

The Good

Few things that stuck out to me on the positive side were stormbolters are going to be a solid choice for terms and vets, though slightly silly they are 4 points instead of 3.  Its just 2 bolt guns, which is 2 points, the 2 point "convenience" tax is mildly irritating.  Still a term can run a SB missiles and melta-fist, while hiding in a group of vets.

 

SIA cost being on the weapons themselves indirectly makes non SIA weapons more affordable.  Essentially subtracts 1 from the cost of a given non SIA weapon due to losing the boltgun.

 

I think winters said the corvus was 10 points cheaper?  Don't think I misheard so, cool I guess offsets the cost increases of its weapon loadouts..

 

Chaplains can get a jump pack again

 

Bikers 5 points cheaper

 

The bad

The ap cap on kraken and vengeance is silly, its only affecting the primaris stalker, which is just 1 shot, and you are wounding on 3s or 4s assuming you are using kraken or vengeance.  This seems like a silly targeted rule, when 99% of the time you would use the hellfire with that gun anyways, just severely limits any interest in any other round for that gun.

 

No primaris in corvus.  Expected this.... but it is still stupid.

 

Relics are laughably bad for the SM faction that supposedly gets all the best toys.

 

Warlord traits are... at best meh, and most are useless.

 

The questionable.....

Nothing said on either preview video about cost of shotguns, (no 1 uses them because they aren't worth 4 points)

Nothing about IHB, want this gun to be usable so badly....

Nothing on inferno pistol price... hot garbage currently

Nothing on vanguard vets

 

 

Overall I am ok with vets being close to the price of primaris, long as they are cheaper... still think they should be about 4-5 points cheaper than primaris because of that wound, but I can accept paying a premium for their weapon access, coupled with generally better rules for kill team combinations, and transport access to corvus, razorbacks, and for the hell of its land raiders.  The Primaris should give use an ok firebase and/or distraction while the normal vets get in there with the heavy weapons.  Can see it working certainly, but with the high cost of all of these units its going to require some very intelligent list constructions, and smart play to pull off.  All in all not to dissimilar from current deathwatch, just a bit more flexible, in that we can now play the long distance shooting game.

[Deathwalker]

Perhaps the stalker will be like the current KT stalker and be Heavy 2?

[Moostick]

They won't change a weapon profile that already exists for SM (THE SHAAACKLE!!!)

 

But bikers are only 5 points cheaper? That's still 4 points more expensive than standard ones, right? Relentless Assault is more definitely not worth the 4 points; they better be able to take special weapons (haha, I know, I know)

 

I'd accept Terminators being 1 or 2 points higher for Fearless, but the fact they lose their teleport homer without bikers should bring it back to par.

[Deathwalker]

They won't change a weapon profile that already exists for SM (THE SHAAACKLE!!!)

 

But bikers are only 5 points cheaper? That's still 4 points more expensive than standard ones, right? Relentless Assault is more definitely not worth the 4 points; they better be able to take special weapons (haha, I know, I know)

 

I'd accept Terminators being 1 or 2 points higher for Fearless, but the fact they lose their teleport homer without bikers should bring it back to par.

The DW change is already existing...........

[Moostick]

Stalker pattern boltgun and stalker bolt rifle are two different weapons, like the boltgun and bolt rifle.

[Gunner00110]

They won't change a weapon profile that already exists for SM (THE SHAAACKLE!!!)

 

But bikers are only 5 points cheaper? That's still 4 points more expensive than standard ones, right? Relentless Assault is more definitely not worth the 4 points; they better be able to take special weapons (haha, I know, I know)

 

I'd accept Terminators being 1 or 2 points higher for Fearless, but the fact they lose their teleport homer without bikers should bring it back to par.

The extra cost is SIA tax on the weapons isnt it?

[Deathwalker]

Stalker pattern boltgun and stalker bolt rifle are two different weapons, like the boltgun and bolt rifle.

Ahh yes, indeed.

 

They won't change a weapon profile that already exists for SM (THE SHAAACKLE!!!)

 

But bikers are only 5 points cheaper? That's still 4 points more expensive than standard ones, right? Relentless Assault is more definitely not worth the 4 points; they better be able to take special weapons (haha, I know, I know)

 

I'd accept Terminators being 1 or 2 points higher for Fearless, but the fact they lose their teleport homer without bikers should bring it back to par.

The extra cost is SIA tax on the weapons isnt it?

 

 

Yes.

[GrinNfool]

Huh very interesting find in a picture of the new datasheet for vets.  Kill teams havew combat squads rule.  This could potentially let you make say a 5 man unit of vets with stalkers, and 2 vanguard vets and 3 bikers, combat squad would let you break that into a group of 5 vets and a group of 3 bikers 2 vanguard vets (which would be T5 thanks to mixed unit rules).  Might be some interesting shenanigans to be had there.  Other oddity, unlike normal Primaris, who the whole squad must use the same gun, the primaris in kill teams can mix it up.  Meaning you could run a couple stalkers an auto and 2 normal bolt rifles if you wanted to.  Same for any hellblasters, reivers (combat knives and non combat knives) inceptors (plasma and bolt) and aggressors (flamers and bolt gauntlets/launchers).  They also have combat squads so again you could put a flamer agressor and an inceptor with a few reivers and you have a pretty solid little primaris close combat squad while the intercessors can stay back and shoot. 

 

Could do some fun things with that.

[Gunner00110]

I thought that was the hellfire extremis bolter? what carries that weapon?

The hellfire extremis is Artemis’ combi weapon, the infernus heavy bolter is an option in killteams

[Moostick]

 

They won't change a weapon profile that already exists for SM (THE SHAAACKLE!!!)

 

But bikers are only 5 points cheaper? That's still 4 points more expensive than standard ones, right? Relentless Assault is more definitely not worth the 4 points; they better be able to take special weapons (haha, I know, I know)

 

I'd accept Terminators being 1 or 2 points higher for Fearless, but the fact they lose their teleport homer without bikers should bring it back to par.

The extra cost is SIA tax on the weapons isnt it?

No, they currently cost 9 more points just for the model. If we take SIA into account, a 5 reduction brings it to 6 pts over a SM biker.

 

Edit: wow, amazing catch on the combat squads. Bikers + SS Vanguards breaking off? Ooooooooh. Ooooh, I may have to forgive GW if they don't FAQ it out.

[Deathwalker]

 

I thought that was the hellfire extremis bolter? what carries that weapon?

The hellfire extremis is Artemis’ combi weapon, the infernus heavy bolter is an option in killteams

 

Wow, that's refreshingly well addressed in that case.

[Gunner00110]

 

 

They won't change a weapon profile that already exists for SM (THE SHAAACKLE!!!)

 

But bikers are only 5 points cheaper? That's still 4 points more expensive than standard ones, right? Relentless Assault is more definitely not worth the 4 points; they better be able to take special weapons (haha, I know, I know)

 

I'd accept Terminators being 1 or 2 points higher for Fearless, but the fact they lose their teleport homer without bikers should bring it back to par.

The extra cost is SIA tax on the weapons isnt it?

No, they currently cost 9 more points just for the model. If we take SIA into account, a 5 reduction brings it to 6 pts over a SM biker.

 

Edit: wow, amazing catch on the combat squads. Bikers + SS Vanguards breaking off? Ooooooooh. Ooooh, I may have to forgive GW if they don't FAQ it out.

DW Bikers have an extra attack over standard bikers also, but yeah your right were paying for the attack and the extra rule with SIA......hmm

[Silverson]

Just a quick note, Primaris apothecary are in the book, I saw a pic on winters review video. I think I saw someone mentioning them

[Noctus Cornix]

Why the hell can't the Corvus carry Primaris? That literally makes no sense whatsoever! 

 

It can carry bikes! BIKES!

[LucidNinja]

Interceptor squad also has combat squad rule which is cool. Looks like vanguard don't have a jump pack in the equipment list also

[spacewatch]

 

 

http://pro.bols.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/special-issue-ammo-rules-1.jpg

 

Full Bolger List posted on BOLS

Standouts are storm bolter and combi-grav. Combi-grav could mean we get access to more options.

 

EDIT: CHAPLAIN IN TERMINATOR ARMOUR? YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES, THE FIRST THING I'M HAPPY ABOUT. He is literally the only additional datasheet we got, and it's the one I wanted the most. So outside of him, no new units, brothers.

 

Edit 2: So bolter weapons are all +1 pts. Intercessors are only 2 points more than Veterans.

 

Bolt pistols are a point and a non optional for Intercessors, so that will make them 3 points more, assuming boltguns for both.

 

Opinions so far

The Good

Few things that stuck out to me on the positive side were stormbolters are going to be a solid choice for terms and vets, though slightly silly they are 4 points instead of 3.  Its just 2 bolt guns, which is 2 points, the 2 point "convenience" tax is mildly irritating.  Still a term can run a SB missiles and melta-fist, while hiding in a group of vets.

 

....

 

SB solid choice? Well, I've been doing 'some' calculations all morning  how these buffs affect our effectiveness. With just x5 rumoured 4pts cost you get 20 SB SIA shots wounding 2+, add Furor tactics and all this means you slaughter 10 Orc Boyz, add WM re-rolls and becomes 14. Compare that to single FC costing rumoured 25 pts and you are able to kill (double six hits) at most 9 Boyz with the same buffs. So x2 5 SB-Vet teams with WM hopping from Corvus/DP practically murders entire Orc Mob in one turn.  Imagine beaconing 10 more SB-Vets before shooting ...whatever infantry 

 

When thinking all these buffs we got and AM battalion I'm now able to make as allies next game in our local club may cause some ...reactions  

[GrinNfool]

Eh I mea

 

 

 

 

http://pro.bols.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/special-issue-ammo-rules-1.jpg

Full Bolger List posted on BOLS

Standouts are storm bolter and combi-grav. Combi-grav could mean we get access to more options.

 

EDIT: CHAPLAIN IN TERMINATOR ARMOUR? YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES, THE FIRST THING I'M HAPPY ABOUT. He is literally the only additional datasheet we got, and it's the one I wanted the most. So outside of him, no new units, brothers.

 

Edit 2: So bolter weapons are all +1 pts. Intercessors are only 2 points more than Veterans.

 

Bolt pistols are a point and a non optional for Intercessors, so that will make them 3 points more, assuming boltguns for both.

 

Opinions so far

The Good

Few things that stuck out to me on the positive side were stormbolters are going to be a solid choice for terms and vets, though slightly silly they are 4 points instead of 3.  Its just 2 bolt guns, which is 2 points, the 2 point "convenience" tax is mildly irritating.  Still a term can run a SB missiles and melta-fist, while hiding in a group of vets.

 

....

 

SB solid choice? Well, I've been doing 'some' calculations all morning  how these buffs affect our effectiveness. With just x5 rumoured 4pts cost you get 20 SB SIA shots wounding 2+, add Furor tactics and all this means you slaughter 10 Orc Boyz, add WM re-rolls and becomes 14. Compare that to single FC costing rumoured 25 pts and you are able to kill (double six hits) at most 9 Boyz with the same buffs. So x2 5 SB-Vet teams with WM hopping from Corvus/DP practically murders entire Orc Mob in one turn.  Imagine beaconing 10 more SB-Vets before shooting ...whatever infantry 

 

When thinking all these buffs we got and AM battalion I'm now able to make as allies next game in our local club may cause some ...reactions  

 

5 vets dropping with 2 frag cannons would do the same w/o using any buffs, 30 points more and need a transport, sure but not much of an efficiency loss for the first 3 casualties, unlike the SB.  Not to mention the massive overwatch deterrent.  Certainly not saying anything against SB, just defending that I think they are solid, not OMGgolly geeBBQ lol.  Where they honestly shine is either that DS strategem, or dare I say it... drop pods, because you can get yourself in rapid fire range pretty easily.  If you are gonna throw the Corvus into the mix I think the frag cannons are going to be a better choice than throwing more SB in there.  At least in the case of orks where they are likely looking to charge you. 

 

The biggest concern with the SB spam to me at least, is every casualty is a big in terms of fire power.  Frag cannon squad loses 3 marines and doesn't care.  SB squad loses 3 guys and now they are only putting out 8 shots.  You always want to be careful with DW to balance out your damage output with your ability to withstand casualties.  Its important to make smart lists with DW, more so than almost any other army because of how we are set up.  We are expensive, and can bring a lot of firepower, but we are fragile too.  DW are still just normal marines, when it comes to survival, and you want to hold on to your fire power as long as possible, to get your points back.  That ork player wouldn't bat an eye at losing 10 boys, he will just turn around and destroy your squad on his turn.

[TheUbikator]

I am happy! And that cover art for CE... even though it has silly marines on it, I think it looks great - it definitely has that DW spec ops feel. Already preordered Watch Masters edition  Its seems it is time to add 2 or 3 vets with stormshields and storm bolters to my army :D

[Irbis]

Storm Bolters getting SIA is pretty damn sexy, and it actually gives Veterans something over the Intercessors (ie, weight of fire). Assuming one is inclined to slap Storm Bolters on all/most of them.

 

Why would you not? It literally doubles shooting per point value.

 

Hopefully with that all the weeping over Primaris will be over

 

On a side note, I hope addition of combi-grav means idiotic restrictions on wargear are lifted. I have Karlaen that I have no use for, but now just might add him to my DW...

 

 

Prices for GW stuff is nuts for NZ and Aus

From what I've heard, that's the case for pretty much everything

 

Aussies also happen to have one of the highest wages in the world, which is somehow always conveniently left out of the picture when they complain

 

Their minimum wage is nearly twice that of USA or Japan, or five times that of most Central European countries and you don't see Poles or Czechs constantly crying despite the fact for them GW products are vastly more expensive proportionally than for AU...

[SinnerBeta]

I find it very disappointing that we're not getting regular Apothecaries, Techmarines, Lts and Ancients. I hope that while they didn't give SIA to heavy bolters they will make an exception for the infernus and it simply received a separate entry on how the SIA works with it.