Finkmilkana Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 Why would you not? It literally doubles shooting per point value. Well, I would probably still keep 1 or 2 guys that I expect to die first without stormbolter (and invest those safed points in some cheap Guard bodies). It’s still 3 more points to make a model that is already very lopsided on offense vs defense even more offensive. Only exception maybe being a DS squad that can guarantee at least get one rapid fire round at full strength. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/16/#findComment-5073219 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjrwaud Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 Sad that normal apothecaries aren't included, I just converted up this fella who I hope can pass for primaris? Also very curious whether heavy thunder hammers have improved and the corvus got machine spirit. Getting excited! ... now where can I get some cheap storm bolters?! ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/16/#findComment-5073223 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rikev Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2018/05/a-look-at-deathwatch-codex.html?m=1 Interesting lore update on here. The Ultimaris Decree placed some of the Primaris recruits directly in service of the Watch Fortresses. Opens up some modelling options how to represent this given they aren't Blackshields. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/16/#findComment-5073225 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irbis Posted May 5, 2018 Author Share Posted May 5, 2018 http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2018/05/a-look-at-deathwatch-codex.html?m=1 Interesting lore update on here. The Ultimaris Decree placed some of the Primaris recruits directly in service of the Watch Fortresses. Opens up some modelling options how to represent this given they aren't Blackshields. So, sarges can take both kinds of swords? Neat, but pity no xenophase option though. Grapnels are most pointless option ever, why would you take them on mixed squad? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/16/#findComment-5073236 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegir_Einarsson Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 I would take reivers only for shock granades only. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/16/#findComment-5073238 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irbis Posted May 5, 2018 Author Share Posted May 5, 2018 Also, more DW info, and thankfully it's not any of usual clickbait peddling sites: https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/2919 Barebone units (assuming 5 for Term, 3 for Bike; I saw the rumour of single Termies, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was a typo left over from the Index. Not even joking) You might be right, link above has TDA entry and it states 5 in squad... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/16/#findComment-5073240 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacewatch Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 Eh I mea ... 5 vets dropping with 2 frag cannons would do the same w/o using any buffs, 30 points more and need a transport, sure but not much of an efficiency loss for the first 3 casualties, unlike the SB. Not to mention the massive overwatch deterrent. Certainly not saying anything against SB, just defending that I think they are solid, not OMG:cussBBQ lol. Where they honestly shine is either that DS strategem, or dare I say it... drop pods, because you can get yourself in rapid fire range pretty easily. If you are gonna throw the Corvus into the mix I think the frag cannons are going to be a better choice than throwing more SB in there. At least in the case of orks where they are likely looking to charge you. The biggest concern with the SB spam to me at least, is every casualty is a big in terms of fire power. Frag cannon squad loses 3 marines and doesn't care. SB squad loses 3 guys and now they are only putting out 8 shots. You always want to be careful with DW to balance out your damage output with your ability to withstand casualties. Its important to make smart lists with DW, more so than almost any other army because of how we are set up. We are expensive, and can bring a lot of firepower, but we are fragile too. DW are still just normal marines, when it comes to survival, and you want to hold on to your fire power as long as possible, to get your points back. That ork player wouldn't bat an eye at losing 10 boys, he will just turn around and destroy your squad on his turn. This is not DW vs. Orcs thread so not going to go details but I totally agree what you say about FC's being best weapons against horde. What I was exited about was how SB+SIA gives new effectiviness and flexibility to our light melee capable Vet squads. It is now (imo) possible to do some of the FC-Vet squad's jobs with SB-Maul Vets without the fear losing expensive FC'-Vets from certain death. Overall SB is just one of the many good possibilities our new dex makes possible. I'm very thrilled to test it and of course all other possibilities too. EDIT. Text changed. Was too exited about the new possibilities SB+SIA opens so text went out of the scope of this thread, my regrets. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/16/#findComment-5073246 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris521 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 So, it looks like he confirmed that veterans are 16 +1. The one really important thing I haven't seen anywhere in the weapons list for veterans. We all seem rather pleased about 20 point storm bolter veterans, but wouldn't it be something if we all got our hopes up for that, only to find that storm bolters where removed from that list? (I just got 10 of them from ebay myself) Assuming that isn't the case, the only thing I don't like about the storm bolter load out is that there really isn't much of a reason to use the normal bolters. 3 points for double firepower is a no brainer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/16/#findComment-5073261 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUbikator Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 So, it looks like he confirmed that veterans are 16 +1. The one really important thing I haven't seen anywhere in the weapons list for veterans. We all seem rather pleased about 20 point storm bolter veterans, but wouldn't it be something if we all got our hopes up for that, only to find that storm bolters where removed from that list? (I just got 10 of them from ebay myself) Assuming that isn't the case, the only thing I don't like about the storm bolter load out is that there really isn't much of a reason to use the normal bolters. 3 points for double firepower is a no brainer. You can still use them because in the index you could. So no worries there. Yea, storm bolters look really god rule-wise, but I will still field vets with normal bolters simply for a rule of cool. I think an anti horde kill team with 4 storm bolters, 2 chainswords, 2 stormshields, two frag cannon, sarge with combi flamer+chainsword, termie and vanguard vet both with lightning claws will make great horde remover. On the other hand kill team with combi weapons, some frag cannon etc would be excellent all-rounder unit against some hordes, vehicles and monsters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/16/#findComment-5073287 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Boyle Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 If Terminators still require 5 in a unit then it's likely that Vanguard Vets and Bikers will still have the same minimum unit size of 5 and 3 respectively. This is slighly annoying as you'll still have to pick between bringing a 5 man squad of Terminators or Vanguard, or putting one in your kill team and leaving the others in your case. I hoped they'd fixed this so that we could use minimum units of 3, avoiding abusing Brigade Detachments but still letting us use all our models and fill a Brigade Detachment Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/16/#findComment-5073310 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris521 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 So, it looks like he confirmed that veterans are 16 +1. The one really important thing I haven't seen anywhere in the weapons list for veterans. We all seem rather pleased about 20 point storm bolter veterans, but wouldn't it be something if we all got our hopes up for that, only to find that storm bolters where removed from that list? (I just got 10 of them from ebay myself) Assuming that isn't the case, the only thing I don't like about the storm bolter load out is that there really isn't much of a reason to use the normal bolters. 3 points for double firepower is a no brainer. You can still use them because in the index you could. So no worries there. Yea, storm bolters look really god rule-wise, but I will still field vets with normal bolters simply for a rule of cool. I think an anti horde kill team with 4 storm bolters, 2 chainswords, 2 stormshields, two frag cannon, sarge with combi flamer+chainsword, termie and vanguard vet both with lightning claws will make great horde remover. On the other hand kill team with combi weapons, some frag cannon etc would be excellent all-rounder unit against some hordes, vehicles and monsters. Risking what could turn into a completely pointless rules debate, would index storm bolters have SIA? Though since someone could post the weapons list at any time now I think it best to just forget about it unless GW gave us a reason. I can see 2 basics squads that I'd like to try as a template. The first would be just vets with storm bolters. They would deepstrike in and use their Hellfire or Kraken rounds. I'm currently assuming there is only one, once per turn, deepstrike stratagem. So only a couple of these squads will get good value. that way. The other would be in a razerback or rhino. This squad would bring the Frag cannons and Storm bolter Vengence rounds, Neither of these will work for deepstrike so they go in the metal boxes. A couple storm shields could work well with these, since there shouldn't be anything stopping a Vet from taking a storm bolter and storm shield. Which if nothing else sounds like a cool combination. I believe it was said that shotguns are now 4 point and the IHB is now 20. Anyone think they will have a place? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/16/#findComment-5073316 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moostick Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 SB seems like it will be a good option, but I'm on the fence. I'm not saying it won't work yet, but there has to be a reason GK strike squads didn't work with SB, force weapon and built in DS for just 1 more point. I haven't played them in 8th, so I don't know, but would SIA fix whatever issue they had? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/16/#findComment-5073344 Share on other sites More sharing options...
seriade Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2018/05/a-look-at-deathwatch-codex.html?m=1 Interesting lore update on here. The Ultimaris Decree placed some of the Primaris recruits directly in service of the Watch Fortresses. Opens up some modelling options how to represent this given they aren't Blackshields. So, sarges can take both kinds of swords? Neat, but pity no xenophase option though. Grapnels are most pointless option ever, why would you take them on mixed squad? Grapnels allow you to abuse charge distance more so technically the revers will get there while the rest of the squad would fail the charge by an inch or two and then just pile into the combat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/16/#findComment-5073346 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irbis Posted May 5, 2018 Author Share Posted May 5, 2018 I believe it was said that shotguns are now 4 point and the IHB is now 20. Anyone think they will have a place? Shotguns were already bad next to bolters. Next to SB? You might as well forget they exist... SB seems like it will be a good option, but I'm on the fence. I'm not saying it won't work yet, but there has to be a reason GK strike squads didn't work with SB, force weapon and built in DS for just 1 more point. I haven't played them in 8th, so I don't know, but would SIA fix whatever issue they had? The issue with GK is that their offensive output is just plain garbage. AP- S4 gun (with the rest being too short ranged and/or overpriced to do anything, save for a psilencer that shares the same piddling stats) that only threatens weakest of troops, and a single attack making their force weapon barely noticeable. DW guns are vastly more dangerous, and A3 at least can tickle much larger range of enemy units... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/16/#findComment-5073353 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rikev Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2018/05/a-look-at-deathwatch-codex.html?m=1 Interesting lore update on here. The Ultimaris Decree placed some of the Primaris recruits directly in service of the Watch Fortresses. Opens up some modelling options how to represent this given they aren't Blackshields. So, sarges can take both kinds of swords? Neat, but pity no xenophase option though. Grapnels are most pointless option ever, why would you take them on mixed squad? Grapnels allow you to abuse charge distance more so technically the revers will get there while the rest of the squad would fail the charge by an inch or two and then just pile into the combat. Wouldn't you need to remain in coherency? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/16/#findComment-5073365 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 Some really cool twists to be seen so far. Unfortunately no one who seems to PLAY Deathwatch is apparently doing a review. I say this because some of the biggest questions I have... we have are still unanswered. I found one game on the tube... not a good one. (could have been a 7th ed game) At the top of my list, I'm still dying to see the Corvus details. (I understand from one review its cost went down 10 points) It does look like the most competitive lists will disregard most of the options... they're just too expensive for what they do. Will we see the IHB now? Will we see Terminators now? (5 models, 3 with Assault cannons? ) Will we see more or less of Frag Cannons now that we can pair Aggressors with Intercessors? Will bikes be worth taking now? I'm not sure that these 'high end' choices are valid because just like 7th I still see Deathwatch as being best against Marines. I still see the number one issue is survival in this elite army. A "new" issue I see is with 8th the wound count has generally gone up. A LOT of this stuff is all D1. Most of the lists I'm formulating look very, very plain. (which I'm quite okay with... I like basic infantry) And there is a slight awkwardness here; as much as I'm happy to use Primaris, a Watchmaster feels very usable, but can't be a Primaris I imagine, meaning that reroll has to be sitting in something that your Primaris cannot ride. (not the end of the world but it does dictate some of your list). I still think if you're a person who likes playing Infantry based lists, this is going to be a fun codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/16/#findComment-5073376 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_149 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 Infantry and dreadnoughts :) looking to get a leviathan with stormcannons I can see the assist with wounds bonus helping make them even more filthy. That with 2 X Mortis autocannon dreads and a watch master for the rerolls makes a solid spearhead detachment. I'll then fill up with librarians, watch captains and kill teams. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/16/#findComment-5073389 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moostick Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 About the +1 to wound strategem, how do you guys interpret it? It says "for that attack", which implies one weapon only. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/16/#findComment-5073394 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 About the +1 to wound strategem, how do you guys interpret it? It says "for that attack", which implies one weapon only.Guess we're waiting another 2 weeks because that cannot be the intention for 2 CP. I interpret it as language meant to avoid the split fire issue they had with the T'au focused fire strat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/16/#findComment-5073407 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUbikator Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBUSOcrN2iI Guys from miniwargaming did and excellent review. Shotguns cost 3 pts now. Stalker Pattern Boltgun costs 4 pts still but has Ap -1 now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/16/#findComment-5073409 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drizzt79 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 A doubt...so Intercessors are costing 18pts + we pay 1pt for the bolt rifle....but do we have to pay 1pt for the bolt pistol, since the Intercessors are equipped with by default? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/16/#findComment-5073410 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUbikator Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 A doubt...so Intercessors are costing 18pts + we pay 1pt for the bolt rifle....but do we have to pay 1pt for the bolt pistol, since the Intercessors are equipped with by default? Yes you do, because you are forced to take them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/16/#findComment-5073413 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Boyle Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 Guys from miniwargaming did and excellent review. Shotguns cost 3 pts now. Stalker Pattern Boltgun costs 4 pts still but has Ap -1 now. Good old MWG. Is the Stalker Boltgun still Heavy 2? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/16/#findComment-5073414 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drizzt79 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 A doubt...so Intercessors are costing 18pts + we pay 1pt for the bolt rifle....but do we have to pay 1pt for the bolt pistol, since the Intercessors are equipped with by default? Yes you do, because you are forced to take them. So the basic intercessor costs 20pts Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/16/#findComment-5073417 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUbikator Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 Good old MWG. Is the Stalker Boltgun still Heavy 2? Yup yes it is. I've got 4 guys with stalker pattern bolters. Now I have a use for them. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346704-codex-dw-next-week/page/16/#findComment-5073420 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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