Codex: DW next week

[Deathwalker]

 

Storm Bolters getting SIA is pretty damn sexy, and it actually gives Veterans something over the Intercessors (ie, weight of fire). Assuming one is inclined to slap Storm Bolters on all/most of them.

 

Why would you not? It literally doubles shooting per point value.

 

Hopefully with that all the weeping over Primaris will be over

 

On a side note, I hope addition of combi-grav means idiotic restrictions on wargear are lifted. I have Karlaen that I have no use for, but now just might add him to my DW...

 

 

Prices for GW stuff is nuts for NZ and Aus

From what I've heard, that's the case for pretty much everything

 

Aussies also happen to have one of the highest wages in the world, which is somehow always conveniently left out of the picture when they complain

 

Their minimum wage is nearly twice that of USA or Japan, or five times that of most Central European countries and you don't see Poles or Czechs constantly crying despite the fact for them GW products are vastly more expensive proportionally than for AU...

 

Sigh.

 This is not the thread for an economics debate, but simply addressed, yes we get paid more, but our base cost of living is more.

It's a cost Vs effect argument, and if anywhere, better suited to a cost issue thread.

If you (Irbis) want to debate that with me, let's go to PM and do it, cause while you and I might enjoy discussing that kind of stuff, others may not. Not shutting you down bro, just saying "not here"

[Captain Boyle]

 

 

A doubt...so Intercessors are costing 18pts + we pay 1pt for the bolt rifle....but do we have to pay 1pt for the bolt pistol, since the Intercessors are equipped with by default?

 

Yes you do, because you are forced to take them.

So the basic intercessor costs 20pts

Got a 5 man squad that is suddenly a lot more useful and I don't mind leaving them on an objective for 100 points.

 

I think I'll use them and an intercessor squad with bolt rifles on the backfield. They have the same range but can do different things. The stalkers will get two shots off all the time but my primaris should be able to displace and react to closing threats better.

[Drizzt79]

 

 

 

A doubt...so Intercessors are costing 18pts + we pay 1pt for the bolt rifle....but do we have to pay 1pt for the bolt pistol, since the Intercessors are equipped with by default?

Yes you do, because you are forced to take them.

So the basic intercessor costs 20pts

Got a 5 man squad that is suddenly a lot more useful and I don't mind leaving them on an objective for 100 points.

I think I'll use them and an intercessor squad with bolt rifles on the backfield. They have the same range but can do different things. The stalkers will get two shots off all the time but my primaris should be able to displace and react to closing threats better.

101pts with the grenade launcher....I agree same thougths, just ordered 10intercessors with the codex and the datacards

[Moostick]

 

About the +1 to wound strategem, how do you guys interpret it? It says "for that attack", which implies one weapon only.

Guess we're waiting another 2 weeks because that cannot be the intention for 2 CP.

 

I interpret it as language meant to avoid the split fire issue they had with the T'au focused fire strat.

 

 

For clarification, I didn't mean one model since it does say "unit", and I don't think we have any multiple model units that can carry two guns. It applies more to something like a vehicle or dreadnought that fire multiple weapons. They're different "attacks" and can target different enemy units.

 

Edit: Actually, Inceptors carry two guns. Going to need some clarification.

[Captain Boyle]

 

 

 

 

A doubt...so Intercessors are costing 18pts + we pay 1pt for the bolt rifle....but do we have to pay 1pt for the bolt pistol, since the Intercessors are equipped with by default?

Yes you do, because you are forced to take them.

So the basic intercessor costs 20pts

Got a 5 man squad that is suddenly a lot more useful and I don't mind leaving them on an objective for 100 points.

I think I'll use them and an intercessor squad with bolt rifles on the backfield. They have the same range but can do different things. The stalkers will get two shots off all the time but my primaris should be able to displace and react to closing threats better.

101pts with the grenade launcher....I agree same thougths, just ordered 10intercessors with the codex and the datacards

I accidentally replied to the wrong comment but my point still stands. Either a basic Intercessor Squad with Bolt Rifles or a Veteran Squad with Stalker Boltguns will cost 100 points. Thats not that much for a decent backfield unit that can camp on your backfield objectives and reach out and harass enemy units.

[Prot]

Guys I'm a little confused about the points values. 

 

Am I crazy or are the bikes looking especially tempting now? 

 

Did I hear that Termies dropped as well?

[Charlo]

It's a really cool codex by the looks of it. They really feel like the elite of marines.

 

Certainly want some, maybe to go along with my Custodes or Ad Mech as an aggressive and shooty drop force.

 

I really love the mixed units, it's very RPG!

 

Shame FW is getting rid of the cool Chapter Pads ;)

[Lemondish]

 

 

 

About the +1 to wound strategem, how do you guys interpret it? It says "for that attack", which implies one weapon only.

Guess we're waiting another 2 weeks because that cannot be the intention for 2 CP.

 

I interpret it as language meant to avoid the split fire issue they had with the T'au focused fire strat.

For clarification, I didn't mean one model since it does say "unit", and I don't think we have any multiple model units that can carry two guns. It applies more to something like a vehicle or dreadnought that fire multiple weapons. They're different "attacks" and can target different enemy units.

 

Edit: Actually, Inceptors carry two guns. Going to need some clarification.

Well, since the rules for resolving attacks assume you are making them one at a time. If you're interpreting it to mean one weapon = one attack, then you're interpreting it as only one weapon gets the bonus, right?

[mjrwaud]

Guys I'm a little confused about the points values. 

 

Am I crazy or are the bikes looking especially tempting now? 

 

Did I hear that Termies dropped as well?

 

Yup, the bikes are looking really good... and when a squad is chosen for a fast attack slot the Sgt. can take special weapons (combi weapons, storm bolters etc.)! 

 

Terminators seem to have dropped as well, although cannot be chosen in squads of 1 as some others have suggested.

 

... still sad that shotguns are still bad (maybe even worse) so trying to decide what to put on my 8 shotgun vets after I do a little amputation... :|

[Charlo]

So shotguns that bad huh?

 

Worse than a bolter in all regards AND more expensive?

[PiñaColada]

Isn't the point of the shotguns that they're assualt? So that you can get your fragcannons up the field quickly and still retain some extra firepower. Sure they're expensive, but less so than a corvus. I mean, I get the complaints about them but I still think they have some worth

[Prot]

I have heard the bikes are 9 points cheaper (then add the SIA tax... making them 8 points cheaper?)

 

I assume I can take CC weapons on them? I want to do a 6 man bike squad up.

 

If termies did drop it's an interesting combo to drop in 5 termies with SIA Stormbolters, and -up to- 3 heavies. That's a lot of points but a lot of clearing potential if it's backed up with enough basic troops.

 

I am trying to make lists but it's nearly impossible with all the holes in the final tally. I see a lot of swapping... 20 point Intercessor is good, but the 16 point vet with Frag cannon is still a real option. 

 

There's a lot of potential now it just running large Intercessor squads now which I am pretty fine with. 

[Melete]

Guys I'm a little confused about the points values. 

 

Am I crazy or are the bikes looking especially tempting now? 

 

Did I hear that Termies dropped as well?

 

Bikes seem good. Take them like Scout bikers - 3 man squads with a storm bolter on the sergeant. That's 16 SIA shots in rapid fire range for a very reasonable number of points.

[Mr4Minutes]

I’m thinking the combat squad option will be really interesting, if it stays as what appears to be written now.

 

5 vets, 4 bikes and 1 VV. Combat squad the bikes and vets and you get a fast harass squad that can fall back and shoot or charge.

 

This may not work, but, if you could do something like 3 termies and 2 VV with jump packs, and then DS them from reserves. Could be an intersection CC unit?

 

I’m thinking combat squad may give us some really interesting options.

[autek mor]

this codex definitely has some cool tricks that make up for having no traits/chapter tactics. personally i would say it is just as good as the marine codex. even if you would like the other marine flyers you could still add them to your list without paying any HQ tax with the flyer detachment. it would be nice if overall the units were a little more cheaper but overall this seems like a decent and fun codex.

[shandwen]

I’m thinking the combat squad option will be really interesting, if it stays as what appears to be written now.

 

5 vets, 4 bikes and 1 VV. Combat squad the bikes and vets and you get a fast harass squad that can fall back and shoot or charge.

 

This may not work, but, if you could do something like 3 termies and 2 VV with jump packs, and then DS them from reserves. Could be an intersection CC unit?

 

I’m thinking combat squad may give us some really interesting options.

3 termies, 1 blackshield, 1 vanguard. Deep strike, heroic intervention if the enemy charges nearby, disengage, shoot, and charge back.

[LordCommanderSamirus]

unless you're using the deep strike stratagem for that it doesn't work because the black shield doesn't have the rules to do it.

[shandwen]

unless you're using the deep strike stratagem for that it doesn't work because the black shield doesn't have the rules to do it.

Well, the stratigum or a tele-homer.

[Charlo]

Terminators with Cyclone missiles still keep their SIA Stormbolter right?

 

That's a lotta DAKKA!

[Rikev]

Also a lot of points. But it is effectively two missile launchers.

 

I'm sticking with classic marines to start with as I have more Veterans than I have available points. Will see them as ETL progresses. Primaris are definitely an option though as I clear the backlog. Transport I think people make a bigger deal about it than it is. Primaris units are good at long range and have limited close combat ability so I wouldn't race then towards the enemy anyway. Use Veterans in a transport instead or drop some Reivers in after clearing their entry point from range.

[Irbis]

Isn't the point of the shotguns that they're assualt? So that you can get your fragcannons up the field quickly and still retain some extra firepower. Sure they're expensive, but less so than a corvus. I mean, I get the complaints about them but I still think they have some worth

 

That's the problem - they pay assault tax GW slaps on everything despite most assault weapons being pretty bad. Up the field quickly? That will A) never happen, C) if you really need to do that you can take Razorback to ensure they won't die en route and get there turn sooner, D) Primaris KT do assault weapons far better...

 

5 vets, 4 bikes and 1 VV. Combat squad the bikes and vets and you get a fast harass squad that can fall back and shoot or charge.

 

Why you guys assume it's not worded like 'if the unit has 10 veterans...'? I'd really like your interpretation to be correct but I just can't see GW rule team doing that...

[ashc]

I think the primaris are going to be deathwatch firebase teams - whether mobile or not. As others have said, they have limited close combat capability and their transportation options are lacking.

 

They haven't replaced the standard kill teams in my eyes - those guys are the kings of customisation and can put together some lethal combat and close ranged options. Purists who don't want primaris can still take stalker teams to hold back objectives too.

 

Anyone else considered how much this codex is affected by whether or not the beta deep strike rules go through as they are?

[Irbis]

Anyone else considered how much this codex is affected by whether or not the beta deep strike rules go through as they are?

 

I don't think it is, really. Have Redemptors and primaris KTs clear screens with bolt rifles on turn one, drop terminators/veterans/vv turn two. For DW, it works much better than for SM or GK, because DW actually can efficiently clear infantry at quite good distances...

[Lemondish]

I think the primaris are going to be deathwatch firebase teams - whether mobile or not. As others have said, they have limited close combat capability and their transportation options are lacking.

 

They haven't replaced the standard kill teams in my eyes - those guys are the kings of customisation and can put together some lethal combat and close ranged options. Purists who don't want primaris can still take stalker teams to hold back objectives too.

 

Anyone else considered how much this codex is affected by whether or not the beta deep strike rules go through as they are?

I think DW is exactly the type of army that can weather the storm until turn 2 deep strike thanks to Primaris.

[Prot]

 

I think the primaris are going to be deathwatch firebase teams - whether mobile or not. As others have said, they have limited close combat capability and their transportation options are lacking.

 

They haven't replaced the standard kill teams in my eyes - those guys are the kings of customisation and can put together some lethal combat and close ranged options. Purists who don't want primaris can still take stalker teams to hold back objectives too.

 

Anyone else considered how much this codex is affected by whether or not the beta deep strike rules go through as they are?

I think DW is exactly the type of army that can weather the storm until turn 2 deep strike thanks to Primaris.

 

 

Well it's my experience that for a short range, elite, shooty army to exist in T3 of competitive 8th edition, you need speed. That can come in the form of flyers, lots of transports, but most likely reserves (cheap).

 

I personally don't like the hit that alpha strike has taken in the FAQ. But that's another subject entirely. 

 

But is the Deathwatch codex capable of roughing out the T1-T2 destruction of Xenos? I really don't know. I haven't seen it on display yet. (the only 8th edition new codex reviews with actual games have been done by people I can tell who largely don't play them, or even mildly competitive.)