Codex: DW next week

[LucidNinja]

I'm pretty sure any "<chapter>" can be deathwatch so most of forgeworld stuff. Leviathan is just mentioned because it is a beast but needs to be close to be most effective. For 1cp having 2d3 s9 -5 d5 shots on a vehicle of choice is golden

[Charlo]

Stalker captain firing with Kraken and the relic that adds +1 damage would be str 4, -3 AP, 3 damage. Seems pretty awesome.

 

Nice build for a back-field buff captain to cover any artillery/ tanks/ other snipers.

 

I can hear the shots that bolter fires just from reading this!

 

It's a real deep and meaty; CHOONK. CHOONK. CHOONK.

[olsol]

I'm pretty sure any "<chapter>" can be deathwatch so most of forgeworld stuff. Leviathan is just mentioned because it is a beast but needs to be close to be most effective. For 1cp having 2d3 s9 -5 d5 shots on a vehicle of choice is golden

I prefer the Chaplain Venerable Dreadnaught from FW... Oh lord is it overpowered. a nine wound character that is T7 deepstriking for 1CP seems almost too good to be true

[Finkmilkana]

I prefer the Chaplain Venerable Dreadnaught from FW... Oh lord is it overpowered. a nine wound character that is T7 deepstriking for 1CP seems almost too good to be true

May I ask why? Unless he is there to support a large meele squad, his offensive output seems rather low and being a character doesn’t seem that important if you attack out of the safety of deep strike. But on the other hand, I recall many people also already really liking the chaplain on release. Am I completely missing something in regards to him?

[Kisada]

I'm also curious as to the chaplain ... I have one but haven't painted it yet ... for deepstriking the leviathan seems better in every way ... the chaplain seems like it could be cool to sit mid field protected by his character status and laying down some shots

[autek mor]

I'm pretty sure any "<chapter>" can be deathwatch so most of forgeworld stuff. Leviathan is just mentioned because it is a beast but needs to be close to be most effective. For 1cp having 2d3 s9 -5 d5 shots on a vehicle of choice is golden

thanks a lot man. time to flip open that forgeworld marine index again and cook up some lists.

[Delta.Skies]

 

I prefer the Chaplain Venerable Dreadnaught from FW... Oh lord is it overpowered. a nine wound character that is T7 deepstriking for 1CP seems almost too good to be true

May I ask why? Unless he is there to support a large meele squad, his offensive output seems rather low and being a character doesn’t seem that important if you attack out of the safety of deep strike. But on the other hand, I recall many people also already really liking the chaplain on release. Am I completely missing something in regards to him?

 

 

 

I'm also curious as to the chaplain ... I have one but haven't painted it yet ... for deepstriking the leviathan seems better in every way ... the chaplain seems like it could be cool to sit mid field protected by his character status and laying down some shots

 

This is from the deathwatch tactics page...

 

• Chaplain In A Dreadnought: This is one of the best models space marines can currently use in 8th - arguably the best outside of special characters. A respectable statline of BS/WS 2+, T7, 9 wounds, 4 attacks, and a 3+/5++ is complimented by slew of special rules. It's a character, so can't be shot at unless it's by snipers (which it'll shrug of anyway) or it's the closest model. A dreadnought that CANNOT BE SHOT AT. He rocks a dreadnought-sized Rosarius granting it a 5++ save and also grants +1 S to friendly models in the same combat during the Fight Phase. As a character it also has Heroic Intervention for getting stuck into combat. Unyielding Ancient grants it a 6+ bonus save against unsaved wounds. It's also reasonably priced considering its many advantages at 204 points. He comes stock with double Dreadnought combat weapons and can re-roll 1's to hit with this loadout. His under-slung Storm Bolters can and should be swapped for Heavy Flamers. One fist can be swapped for a Multi-Melta, an Assault Cannon, a Twin Lascannon, or the awesome Inferno Cannon (a heavy flamer with S6 AP-1 D2). Overall a solid HQ choice, capable of dishing out the pain in ranged and melee combat while being surprisingly durable with the targeting restrictions against characters. His buff may not be as good as other HQ choices, but you're not taking him for that.

[Nusquam]

A Chaplain dread may have character shielding but it it's still squishy with minimal actual damage outouton it's own. T7 3+/5++/6+++ will only get so far at 9 wounds.

 

It's best dropping out of a Storm Ravens with a melee squad and charging. If you deepstrike it to take advantage of the character rule it's not charging. And what will you deep strike in front of it? 10 plasma guns or melee unit?

 

Leviathans on the other hand will drop and chunk knights or cull hordes and instantly make many points back before they even get attacked. What's the point of hiding a melee dread when you can deepstrike one of the best shooting units and make immediate gains?

[Moostick]

Chaplain dread would be good if it had the reroll aura. +1S for just the units that charged the same enemy unit is just too little a buff. Maybe if it was a 6" aura.

[Lemondish]

A Chaplain dread may have character shielding but it it's still squishy with minimal actual damage outouton it's own. T7 3+/5++/6+++ will only get so far at 9 wounds.

 

It's best dropping out of a Storm Ravens with a melee squad and charging. If you deepstrike it to take advantage of the character rule it's not charging. And what will you deep strike in front of it? 10 plasma guns or melee unit?

 

Leviathans on the other hand will drop and chunk knights or cull hordes and instantly make many points back before they even get attacked. What's the point of hiding a melee dread when you can deepstrike one of the best shooting units and make immediate gains?

TIL four Str 12, AP -3, 3 damage attacks hitting on 2s, re-rolling 1s to hit, probably re-rolling 1s to wound, isn't a lot of damage.

 

Or that a unit immune to most shooting unless you're losing the game anyway, with a T7, 9W, and 3+/5++/6+++ statline is squishy.

 

I sincerely wonder if you understand what those terms mean ;)

[dicebod]

 

A Chaplain dread may have character shielding but it it's still squishy with minimal actual damage outouton it's own. T7 3+/5++/6+++ will only get so far at 9 wounds.

 

It's best dropping out of a Storm Ravens with a melee squad and charging. If you deepstrike it to take advantage of the character rule it's not charging. And what will you deep strike in front of it? 10 plasma guns or melee unit?

 

Leviathans on the other hand will drop and chunk knights or cull hordes and instantly make many points back before they even get attacked. What's the point of hiding a melee dread when you can deepstrike one of the best shooting units and make immediate gains?

TIL four Str 12, AP -3, 3 damage attacks hitting on 2s, re-rolling 1s to hit, probably re-rolling 1s to wound, isn't a lot of damage.

 

Or that a unit immune to most shooting unless you're losing the game anyway, with a T7, 9W, and 3+/5++/6+++ statline is squishy.

 

I sincerely wonder if you understand what those terms mean

 

 

By no means would I say the Chaplain Dread is bad, I just think there are better candidates for the Deepstriking strategem.  Because he's a character, having him advance with the rest of your hammer units (maybe a KT in a landraider/corvus) will give him a lot of survivability - DS'ing him on his own removes that advantage because he'll just be the closest enemy unit anyway (probably).

 

If you do DS him, I'd say make sure to spend the 3 CP and bring him in with something else...Hellblasters, a Leviathan (can you imagine a Leviathan and a Chaplain dread rampaging through someone's back lines?) or even a unit of Reivers.

[Lemondish]

 

 

 

A Chaplain dread may have character shielding but it it's still squishy with minimal actual damage outouton it's own. T7 3+/5++/6+++ will only get so far at 9 wounds.

 

It's best dropping out of a Storm Ravens with a melee squad and charging. If you deepstrike it to take advantage of the character rule it's not charging. And what will you deep strike in front of it? 10 plasma guns or melee unit?

 

Leviathans on the other hand will drop and chunk knights or cull hordes and instantly make many points back before they even get attacked. What's the point of hiding a melee dread when you can deepstrike one of the best shooting units and make immediate gains?

TIL four Str 12, AP -3, 3 damage attacks hitting on 2s, re-rolling 1s to hit, probably re-rolling 1s to wound, isn't a lot of damage.

 

Or that a unit immune to most shooting unless you're losing the game anyway, with a T7, 9W, and 3+/5++/6+++ statline is squishy.

 

I sincerely wonder if you understand what those terms mean

By no means would I say the Chaplain Dread is bad, I just think there are better candidates for the Deepstriking strategem. Because he's a character, having him advance with the rest of your hammer units (maybe a KT in a landraider/corvus) will give him a lot of survivability - DS'ing him on his own removes that advantage because he'll just be the closest enemy unit anyway (probably).

 

If you do DS him, I'd say make sure to spend the 3 CP and bring him in with something else...Hellblasters, a Leviathan (can you imagine a Leviathan and a Chaplain dread rampaging through someone's back lines?) or even a unit of Reivers.

Ah, I misunderstood - sorry. I missed that the topic was regarding the deep strike stratagem. I apologise. You're absolutely right - his strengths actually work best if he's on the table to begin with.

[dicebod]

 

 

 

A Chaplain dread may have character shielding but it it's still squishy with minimal actual damage outouton it's own. T7 3+/5++/6+++ will only get so far at 9 wounds.

 

It's best dropping out of a Storm Ravens with a melee squad and charging. If you deepstrike it to take advantage of the character rule it's not charging. And what will you deep strike in front of it? 10 plasma guns or melee unit?

 

Leviathans on the other hand will drop and chunk knights or cull hordes and instantly make many points back before they even get attacked. What's the point of hiding a melee dread when you can deepstrike one of the best shooting units and make immediate gains?

TIL four Str 12, AP -3, 3 damage attacks hitting on 2s, re-rolling 1s to hit, probably re-rolling 1s to wound, isn't a lot of damage.

 

Or that a unit immune to most shooting unless you're losing the game anyway, with a T7, 9W, and 3+/5++/6+++ statline is squishy.

 

I sincerely wonder if you understand what those terms mean

By no means would I say the Chaplain Dread is bad, I just think there are better candidates for the Deepstriking strategem. Because he's a character, having him advance with the rest of your hammer units (maybe a KT in a landraider/corvus) will give him a lot of survivability - DS'ing him on his own removes that advantage because he'll just be the closest enemy unit anyway (probably).

 

If you do DS him, I'd say make sure to spend the 3 CP and bring him in with something else...Hellblasters, a Leviathan (can you imagine a Leviathan and a Chaplain dread rampaging through someone's back lines?) or even a unit of Reivers.

Ah, I misunderstood - sorry. I missed that the topic was regarding the deep strike stratagem. I apologise. You're absolutely right - his strengths actually work best if he's on the table to begin with.

 

 

No problem!  I'm actually kinda in love with the idea of Dropping in a Chaplain Dread and either a Redemptor or a Leviathan - have them both charge into the same unit, get +1 Strength, tons of attacks, and be crazy survivable.

[Kisada]

If I recall correctly in one of the reviews they said you can only DS one dread.

[LucidNinja]

I was thinking maybe deep strike a chaplain dreadnought with the beacon then bring in a bunch of veterans?

[zero88]

 

 

Looks like the combi-melta + melta-fist combo is good to go for the Watch captain in terminator armour! Daaaamn that's hot... but pricey!

 

Hope it's alright to put a few point values here... I'll remove them if it's not...

 

Watch Capt. in Term armour = 105

Combi-Melta = 20 

Melta + Fist = 17 + 12

 

 

Heavy thunder hammer is a disappointment overall.

 

 

YES! If that indeed is true I am absolutely making one of those. That guy is cooler than the dual inferno pistol jump pack Captain (Did inferno pistols get a points reduction btw?)

[Stiff Crayons]

Question: does a Watch Master count as an ‘infantry unit’ as defined by the telepotarium strategem? My idea is dropping in my WM along side a veteran team of 4 frag cannons, 3 vets w/SS and bolters, terminator w/SB and VV w/ bolter and SS.

[Delta.Skies]

Question: does a Watch Master count as an ‘infantry unit’ as defined by the telepotarium strategem? My idea is dropping in my WM along side a veteran team of 4 frag cannons, 3 vets w/SS and bolters, terminator w/SB and VV w/ bolter and SS.

He has infantry in his keywords so I would assume you could

[GrinNfool]

Question: does a Watch Master count as an ‘infantry unit’ as defined by the telepotarium strategem? My idea is dropping in my WM along side a veteran team of 4 frag cannons, 3 vets w/SS and bolters, terminator w/SB and VV w/ bolter and SS.

The Watchmaster is infantry yes, but you would be better off putting all of those in a Corvus I think.  With the DS you would be out of range for the auto hit profile of the frags.  Corvus gets that squad where they want to go at the range they want to be in, and with the no DS turn 1, probably arriving at the same time, the DS would allow.  The DS stuff is IMO best used on things you want to either rapid fire, or as others have said, dreads. 

 

An example of a good DS infantry squad would be something like 7 vets w/ 3 boltgun/SSs 3 SBs 1 combi melta 2 term with SB and aux melta, 1 VV vet plasma pistol.  Could always swap an SB for an infernus or frag as well depending on how big melee armies are in your meta.  Only coming in slightly higher cost wise than your squad example, and able to take advantage of the DS. 6 bolt gun shots, 20 SB shots 3 melta shots and a plasma shot.

 

As for cheaper DS stuff, I'm actually a fan of the Reivers, with SIA ammo they actually fill a role for DW instead of being worthless, no CP needed either, though you can if you want to save 10-20 points depending on squad size.  Dropping them straight into cover (hopefully on an obj), makes an annoying unit your opponent has to deal with but doesn't want to bother with, think scouts for normal SM, w/o the DS protection.

[Stiff Crayons]

 

 

Question: does a Watch Master count as an ‘infantry unit’ as defined by the telepotarium strategem? My idea is dropping in my WM along side a veteran team of 4 frag cannons, 3 vets w/SS and bolters, terminator w/SB and VV w/ bolter and SS.

The Watchmaster is infantry yes, but you would be better off putting all of those in a Corvus I think. With the DS you would be out of range for the auto hit profile of the frags. Corvus gets that squad where they want to go at the range they want to be in, and with the no DS turn 1, probably arriving at the same time, the DS would allow. The DS stuff is IMO best used on things you want to either rapid fire, or as others have said, dreads.

 

An example of a good DS infantry squad would be something like 7 vets w/ 3 boltgun/SSs 3 SBs 1 combi melta 2 term with SB and aux melta, 1 VV vet plasma pistol. Could always swap an SB for an infernus or frag as well depending on how big melee armies are in your meta. Only coming in slightly higher cost wise than your squad example, and able to take advantage of the DS. 6 bolt gun shots, 20 SB shots 3 melta shots and a plasma shot.

 

As for cheaper DS stuff, I'm actually a fan of the Reivers, with SIA ammo they actually fill a role for DW instead of being worthless, no CP needed either, though you can if you want to save 10-20 points depending on squad size. Dropping them straight into cover (hopefully on an obj), makes an annoying unit your opponent has to deal with but doesn't want to bother with, think scouts for normal SM, w/o the DS protection.

I tend to play in a Primarch-heavy meta (Magnus and Morty are my two typical matchups) and while I run Guilliman in my imperial lists (we only play 2,000 points) I like the solid shell mechanic of the frag cannons to either soften up a primarch another armored target hiding in back (I tend to wait for turn 2 DS without worry). I do bring an AM Battalion for CP battery and heavy weapon support to hold me over until the reserves arrive, but dropping in a vet squad with Storm shields and full reroll hits from a WM would be fun to try. I’d drop in terminators simultaneously to maximize the reroll aura utility.

 

And none of us use any FW and my only unpainted Dreadnought has plans to become an ultramarine dread, unless I can really convince myself to paint it black with a silver left arm.....

[Deathwalker]

DS  multiple VenDreads has a certain appeal................

[Chris521]

Has anyone heard if the librarian in terminator armor has gone down in points? Before the codex it was over 20 points more than one from the space marine codex.  I've just finished building up my new kill teams but I'm still trying to decide on a second HQ to fill a battalion.

[Moostick]

They're 120 points now, as they should've been since CA if they knew how to copy and paste.

 

Now that Combat Team has been "confirmed" (for now) and strategems revealed, let's discuss some potentially effective units. I actually feel we can step away from transports now, and focus on use of DS and backlines. This frees up points to bring some armour to support the infantry.

 

1) 3 bikers + 2 VVs.

VVs can be outfitted either as the DD with TH+SS, or as a support with SS+pistol/chainsword for a cheaper option. Gets limited T5 and 3++; recommended you alternate who dies to lengthen effect. With their mobility, there's no need for a transport. Can mix with backline Veterans so it doesn't "waste" points. Downside is that it lacks any real hard hitting shooting options

 

2) 9x Veterans + 1 VV. (+Terminator, if preferred)

6 stormshields, 4 FCs. If we really want to get cheeky, throw in 5 SBs with those SS Veterans. VV is there for the fall back and fly if we somehow whiff 8D6 flamers and all the bolter shots. Deepstrike strategem.

 

3) Mix of (5 min) Veterans and (5 max) Terminators.

Similar to 2, with SBs, special/heavy weapons, some SS and fearless, they will be a solid front line unit. Deepstrike strategem. Edit 2: I realize this is essentially 2) with different loadouts.

 

4) Good ol' Terminators.

Mix of SBs, and TH/SS will be a great support for squads 2 or 3 that is just as hard to move. They get innate DS, so it saves on the need of it.

 

5) Backlines similar to what we have now.

Stalker units, Las/ML/Autocan Dreads. These don't need to move much, so they don't need transports or DS

 

Take some armour along and they'll have no clear option to fire at. I would fill out all DS strategem units to 10 models, and include at least one Terminator for fearless; he won't be there for tanking, but more for fearless. I feel these units should be heavily invested in, which would amount to around 300ish points, but they'd essentially be a walking tank with 3++ and a loooooot of firepower. I would shoot for at least 2 terminators for that 2+ on AP 0 shots.

 

Edit: Yes, mix in a VV with any strategem DS unit if they're an assault risk. Downside about VV is that it's essentially not an ablative wound and its options are kind of crappy compared to others. I honestly can't see a use for VVs on their own anymore.

 

I'm looking forward the most to trying unit #2. Yes, we could've done the same before, but not only is it cheaper now, it saves us 250ish points on a Corvus, which was the only transport that could've made it effective before. DS in and you're under 12", making it a threat to horde, heavy infantry, and tanks all the same.

[Captain Boyle]

They're 120 points now, as they should've been since CA if they knew how to copy and paste.

 

Now that Combat Team has been "confirmed" (for now) and strategems revealed, let's discuss some potentially effective units. I actually feel we can step away from transports now, and focus on use of DS and backlines. This frees up points to bring some armour to support the infantry.

 

1) 3 bikers + 2 VVs.

VVs can be outfitted either as the DD with TH+SS, or as a support with SS+pistol/chainsword for a cheaper option. Gets limited T5 and 3++; recommended you alternate who dies to lengthen effect. With their mobility, there's no need for a transport. Can mix with backline Veterans so it doesn't "waste" points. Downside is that it lacks any real hard hitting shooting options

 

2) 9x Veterans + 1 VV. (+Terminator, if preferred)

6 stormshields, 4 FCs. If we really want to get cheeky, throw in 5 SBs with those SS Veterans. VV is there for the fall back and fly if we somehow whiff 8D6 flamers and all the bolter shots. Deepstrike strategem.

 

3) Mix of (5 min) Veterans and (5 max) Terminators.

Similar to 2, with SBs, special/heavy weapons, some SS and fearless, they will be a solid front line unit. Deepstrike strategem. Edit 2: I realize this is essentially 2) with different loadouts.

 

4) Good ol' Terminators.

Mix of SBs, and TH/SS will be a great support for squads 2 or 3 that is just as hard to move. They get innate DS, so it saves on the need of it.

 

5) Backlines similar to what we have now.

Stalker units, Las/ML/Autocan Dreads. These don't need to move much, so they don't need transports or DS

 

Take some armour along and they'll have no clear option to fire at. I would fill out all DS strategem units to 10 models, and include at least one Terminator for fearless; he won't be there for tanking, but more for fearless. I feel these units should be heavily invested in, which would amount to around 300ish points, but they'd essentially be a walking tank with 3++ and a loooooot of firepower. I would shoot for at least 2 terminators for that 2+ on AP 0 shots.

 

Edit: Yes, mix in a VV with any strategem DS unit if they're an assault risk. Downside about VV is that it's essentially not an ablative wound and its options are kind of crappy compared to others. I honestly can't see a use for VVs on their own anymore.

 

I'm looking forward the most to trying unit #2. Yes, we could've done the same before, but not only is it cheaper now, it saves us 250ish points on a Corvus, which was the only transport that could've made it effective before. DS in and you're under 12", making it a threat to horde, heavy infantry, and tanks all the same.

 

1)  The Biker and Vanguard Veteran Combo - I feel that we need to see with experience whether two vanguard or one vanguard and an extra biker will be better. An extra biker will give more damage output with SIA, but an extra Vanguard Vet does give you a change to tank a hit and keep the Vanguard Strike rule. 

 

I literally snapped the stormshields of my vanguard vets a few months ago. Now its looking like I'll have to snap off wither a pistol or a sword and glue a shield back on.

 

Not sure what the best combo of weapons would be. I'm thinking stormshield and cheap power weapon so that if my bikers do get charged, it can at least get a few good whacks in before everyone takes a step back into firing range

 

2) Only issue is that you can't deepstrike into frag cannon template range, so you will be needing those stormshields to weather a lot of incoming fire and I doubt that anyone who has faced Deathwatch before is going to allow you to use them next turn. Plus very few situations need four frag cannons or will really benefit from them.

 

Best situation would be dropping into a perfectly spaced Guard army, unloading the storm bolters into a squad of Guardsmen and doing statistically 7.47 wounds, with either Hellfire or Kraken Rounds, and then unloading the frag cannon's shell profile into the side of a Leman Russ and doing about 5.93 Wounds....maybe use the new tempest shell strategem to do some extra wounds to the tank? 

 

I agree about the Vanguard Vets. They don't really do much on their own. Best use it to give them a melee weapon and a pistol and use them to crack a few skulls if you get charged and then lift the squad to safety so you can fire again. 

[GrinNfool]

1) 3 bikers + 2 VVs.

 

 

2) 9x Veterans + 1 VV. (+Terminator, if preferred)

 

 

3) Mix of (5 min) Veterans and (5 max) Terminators.

 

 

4) Good ol' Terminators.

5) Backlines similar to what we have now.

Stalker units, Las/ML/Autocan Dreads. These don't need to move much, so they don't need transports or DS

 

I'm looking forward the most to trying unit #2. Yes, we could've done the same before, but not only is it cheaper now, it saves us 250ish points on a Corvus, which was the only transport that could've made it effective before. DS in and you're under 12", making it a threat to horde, heavy infantry, and tanks all the same.

1) Assuming here you are talking about combat squadding,  Generally agree this should be effective, I was leaning 4 bikes 1 Vv w/ 2 plasma pistol or power something or other, maybe fist?  Also was toying with the idea of this being the one place a heavy thunder hammer might actually get used.  8 ablative wounds and T5 to get the hvy thunder hammer some hits in on some hapless vehicle/monster, also nicely covers his lack of shooting.  Other interesting interaction here, the DW +1 to wound strategem means the hvy thunder hammer does 6 damage on 5s or 6s to wound instead of just 6s.  Figure this squad is paired with a 5 vet stalker team sitting in cover somewhere, almost every time.

 

2) I just can't get behind DS'ing frag cannons, just doesn't sit well with me, I'd throw that squad in a corvus with a watch master or artemis.  I would rather DS something I'll put below.

 

3) this has some value just because of being able to utilize teleport homer, though I think 5 terms is pricey and overkill.

 

4) SBs and aux meltas, and if you want to spend big tack on a cyclone on one of em.  Thinking 2 SSs, 3 aux meltas 1 cyclone. 

 

5) stalkers have always been underrated, a 5 man squad sitting in cover has always done well by me, even better now with the ap-1.  Normal and ven dreads I just haven't been able to find success with in deathwatch, could just be the meta I am in though, good amount of AV. 

 

I also think Reivers are actually going to be a solid choice in the codex, 110 points to deepstrike into cover (10 wounds with 2+ save and 10 shots SIA isn't bad)  Possibly fill a similar role to scouts in normal SM, sans the DS protection, unless you are going first.  No cp needed to do that either.

 

I think some intercessor, hellblaster combos will find some uses too far as traditional DW have a few kill teams I like

 

First, my DS alternative to your 4 frag squad.  7 vets 3 boltgun/SS 3 SBs 1 combi melta,  2 terms with SBs and melta-fists, and a Vv with a plasma pistol.  Puts out 3 melta shots, and 26 SIA bolt shots and a plasma shot when it lands.  If in an assault heavy meta can chance a SB on a vet to a frag or infernus, if points are tight.  Also not beholden to the 8" range of frags to be truly effective.  Shells are fine but lets be honest you brought the frag for the auto hit.  Otherwise its just a sidegrade plasma gun.

 

Second, isn't so much a build but just to note that when looking at DS don't underestimate the shotgun, especially if you fight a lot of horde assault armies, or T3 armies.  Vs t3 the shotgun will outperform a bolt gun, with SIA at DS ranges, well as long as you are shooting 4+ or worse.  Not to mention the flexibility of the hand flamer profile, when being charged.  I don't think shotguns are amazing... but I do think they have a few uses depending on your meta, and can create some decent units on the cheap (for deathwatch at least).

 

Third for small squads still can't go wrong with the good ol' 5 man 3 boltgun 2-3 SS 2 frag squad.  Throw in a term for good measure if you want the fearless Vv for fall back, if that is important to you.  W/o the term or Vv can shove 2 of these in a rhino, cheap and effective by DW standards at least.

 

Fourth I've been toying with a 6 vet 4 term squads with an eye to combat squad into two 3/2 squads, been trying to fit the infernus in here too, for that d3 mortal wound strategem that requires a heavy bolter, not sure how I feel on that atm.  Far as the 6/4 can use it several ways, can run 2 TH/SS terms to be ablative wounds for 2-3 frags, or use the vets as wounds for the terms, possibly for cyclones.  Also thought about them being dedicated AV with combi-meltas, or close range fire support with a couple heavy flamer/power weapon terms, maybe a frag cannon and 2 shotgun/stormshields.  Can move/advance and fire w/o much issue.  Scary to charge that too with 2d6 hvy flamer 2d6 hand flamer and 2d6 frag cannon auto hits.  Think it offers a range of possibilities, though a bit more pricey than other kill team options, still get what you pay for I think.  Will be frank though that is a lot of points.  Can drop it 26 points by losing 2 of the hvy flamers of course.

 

Finally I think just bike squads are winners since the sgt sounds like he can take things from DW gear list.  Combi melta for some AV or SB for more dakka sound fun.  3 man bike squad with the sgt w/ an SB will put out 16 ap -1 shots at 15" range, not bad for 3 models.  Out performing intercessors for cheaper cost, and higher toughness (4 less wounds though)