Sisters speculation topic

[Servant of Dante]

Yeah what I’m dreading more than anything else is the fluff in the full release of the codex. Since obviously GW and I have different views on the Sisters, the more they write about them the more stuff I have to explain why I ignore in my headcanon :P

 

Still, I do have a sort of morbid curiosity of what it’ll be, and maybe it’ll all be just copy-pasta from other books and I won’t have anything new to complain about :D

 

I’m still excited for the codex, everything else aside it’s the first time we’ll have Sisters in a true codex since ‘03, the first time in their own codex since ‘98, and their first codex in hard cover!

[Aqui]

We aren't being lumped back in with Inquisition. This book, according to Robin Cruddace (who I spoke to personally at Warhammer Fest in England), will be a Sisters Codex. Whether or not Jacobus, Priests, Crusaders and the Penitent Engine will be in it (seeing as they're actually Ministorum, not Sororitas), even he doesn't know, or won't tell. Any units that doesn't have an entry in a Codex, will be in a book that catches them. So Assassains etc.

[Mekhitar]

I hope ministorum gets a guard auxiliaries style rule, where we can include them without breaking the Sororitas faction. It would be fitting.

 

I have a dream of a tank with a melta missile turret (like the custodes missile, or the warglaive thermal lance), and sponson choices of heavy bolters, heavy flamers, or multi meltas... not a CA thing, surely, but still a dream.

[Drider]

Would it be fitting though? 

 

No men under arms.

[Montford]

Overall I have faith in the current crew at GW as far as the Sisters are concerned. The Index filled me with joy with all units present, how Acts of Faith  were written, and that Inquisition and Sisters were not even close to being related aside from both being Imperium. From what I'm seeing in the other Codices I've read I am very eager to see what will be in ours.

[Atrus]

Want December nao!

[ERJAK]

Our rules in the index were actually, genuinely incredible(minus some poor wording). We're STILL able to win games against codex armies, even after being rather massively nerfed by the rule of 3.

 

Acts of Faith is exactly how GW WISHES they had written the Ynnari rules. It's incredibly powerful but also has very specific uses that give your opponent meaningful counter-play. In my opinion, AoF is one of the best written rules in the game. The only issues come from how you go about getting more AoFs, which is far too limited and results in poor scaling. As it's own rule though, AoF is awesome.

[Atrus]

Thatd be my main concern about what to come. Faith is in a good spot right now. Its powerful without being broken. Being limited to a max of 5 is balancing. Could you imagine the crying there would be if we could reliably pull off 7+ faith every turn?

 

Id like faith to stay as it is (cuz i dont wanna relearn all over again) but benefit pure sisters better. There has been mention of faith being available through stratagems which i think could work nicely - if the cp between detachments is fixed, ie. Cp only used on the detachment that made it.

I wouldnt want people crying sisters faith is OP because we could spam faith courtesy of guard cp battery.

But thats a different topic altogether.

 

Short version: i dont want people to have an excuse to cry about our awesomeness because soup and gw nerf faith instead of fixing the actual problem.

I want sisters to gly off the shelves and gw to to surprise spitake and wonder why they didnt bother with sisters before and sisters become the new poster girls of 40k dream dream dream

[ERJAK]

Thatd be my main concern about what to come. Faith is in a good spot right now. Its powerful without being broken. Being limited to a max of 5 is balancing. Could you imagine the crying there would be if we could reliably pull off 7+ faith every turn?

 

Id like faith to stay as it is (cuz i dont wanna relearn all over again) but benefit pure sisters better. There has been mention of faith being available through stratagems which i think could work nicely - if the cp between detachments is fixed, ie. Cp only used on the detachment that made it.

I wouldnt want people crying sisters faith is OP because we could spam faith courtesy of guard cp battery.

But thats a different topic altogether.

 

Short version: i dont want people to have an excuse to cry about our awesomeness because soup and gw nerf faith instead of fixing the actual problem.

I want sisters to gly off the shelves and gw to to surprise spitake and wonder why they didnt bother with sisters before and sisters become the new poster girls of 40k dream dream dream

My first thought is that anything after 5 would be pretty pointless. With them only being usable on infantry, I have difficulty finding a good use for the 2+ roll sometimes. If you're AoFing 7 times per turn at least a couple of those are just taking potshots with regular bolters or giving a squad of basic battle sisters an extra move for  and giggles. I suppose you could argue for a situation where you had 3 retributor squads, 3 squads of seraphim, and celestine; but even that I don't really think would be a big deal. As long as you still need to invest resources, the max number of AoFs you have access to per turn isn't super important.

 

The issue with gaining more AoFs currently is that imagifiers are clunky, unreliable, expensive, and totally useless outside of their AoF. Giving imagifiers a 12" move(or range, same effect) and upping their AoF roll to a 3+ would make them actually worth 40pts(maybe even 50 if we get better infantry options). As it stands now, imagifiers being really bad is why AoFs don't scale as well as they should, if imagifiers were more functional, they might not even need to add anything else.

 

(sidebar:being OP as balls is the easiest way to get them flying off the shelves. Look at Eldar.)

[Beams]

 

 

Thatd be my main concern about what to come. Faith is in a good spot right now. Its powerful without being broken. Being limited to a max of 5 is balancing. Could you imagine the crying there would be if we could reliably pull off 7+ faith every turn?

 

Id like faith to stay as it is (cuz i dont wanna relearn all over again) but benefit pure sisters better. There has been mention of faith being available through stratagems which i think could work nicely - if the cp between detachments is fixed, ie. Cp only used on the detachment that made it.

I wouldnt want people crying sisters faith is OP because we could spam faith courtesy of guard cp battery.

But thats a different topic altogether.

 

Short version: i dont want people to have an excuse to cry about our awesomeness because soup and gw nerf faith instead of fixing the actual problem.

I want sisters to gly off the shelves and gw to to surprise spitake and wonder why they didnt bother with sisters before and sisters become the new poster girls of 40k dream dream dream

My first thought is that anything after 5 would be pretty pointless. With them only being usable on infantry, I have difficulty finding a good use for the 2+ roll sometimes. If you're AoFing 7 times per turn at least a couple of those are just taking potshots with regular bolters or giving a squad of basic battle sisters an extra move for and giggles. I suppose you could argue for a situation where you had 3 retributor squads, 3 squads of seraphim, and celestine; but even that I don't really think would be a big deal. As long as you still need to invest resources, the max number of AoFs you have access to per turn isn't super important.

 

The issue with gaining more AoFs currently is that imagifiers are clunky, unreliable, expensive, and totally useless outside of their AoF. Giving imagifiers a 12" move(or range, same effect) and upping their AoF roll to a 3+ would make them actually worth 40pts(maybe even 50 if we get better infantry options). As it stands now, imagifiers being really bad is why AoFs don't scale as well as they should, if imagifiers were more functional, they might not even need to add anything else.

 

(sidebar:being OP as balls is the easiest way to get them flying off the shelves. Look at Eldar.)

If your not using regular Bolters, youre playing sisters wrong. A squad of 15 sisters with Bolters or a squad of 10 dominions with 5 stormbolters, puts out 60 Bolter shots a turn, AoF'd. Put that near a Cannoness and watch as two full units of Guardsmen (supposedly the best unit ever) die each turn to your 110 or 135 pt squad earns it's point back.

 

Are power armored enemies, like Khorne Bersekers scaring you? Are Custodes? All of them die easily enough, and it Bolter squads are cheap, provide board control and if needed can move 12+2d6" to get wherever we need them to be.

 

 

Also, imagifiers are amazing. The flexibility the add is worth the 40pts. That's less than 5 sisters, and they allow you to either double shoot, double move or bring a model back from the dead?

They't always add their pts value in shooting, but the game isn't won by shooting, it's one by holding objectives.

[Lord Grimskull]

Just looking at some of the other faction "chapter tactics" I think we can safely assume some general traits:

 

*Firing assault and heavy weapons without penalty

 

*Fall back and still shoot, -1 to hit

 

*Reroll 1s in shooting phase

 

Etc, there's a bunch of them out there.

 

Where things get interesting, even for bread and butter "Order tactics" is the interplay between tactics, relics, stratagems, and models.

 

An army wide 5+ fnp trait and some source of ld could make sister blobs way more viable and suddenly In turn that makes the current double shot faith more useful (as an example)

[Montford]

 

Also, imagifiers are amazing. The flexibility the add is worth the 40pts. That's less than 5 sisters, and they allow you to either double shoot, double move or bring a model back from the dead?

They't always add their pts value in shooting, but the game isn't won by shooting, it's one by holding objectives.

 

 

I wholeheartedly agree!

Just looking at some of the other faction "chapter tactics" I think we can safely assume some general traits:

 

*Firing assault and heavy weapons without penalty

 

*Fall back and still shoot, -1 to hit

 

*Reroll 1s in shooting phase

 

Etc, there's a bunch of them out there.

 

Where things get interesting, even for bread and butter "Order tactics" is the interplay between tactics, relics, stratagems, and models.

 

An army wide 5+ fnp trait and some source of ld could make sister blobs way more viable and suddenly In turn that makes the current double shot faith more useful (as an example)

 

Getting a Stratagem akin to Bolter Drill would be excellent!

[Drider]

I think it's reasonable to assume that well get:

 

The bolter order.

The melta order.

The flamer order.

The melee order.

[Atrus]

Gosh i hope not. Thats lazy space marine stuff right there.

[Slasher956]

hope its more along the lines of a relic or two + a stragegem geared towards the orders base rule....

 

flames order (a stratagem that gives bolters a 'flame' style result ie ignore cover bonuses)

martyrs order (ever character that dies get an act of faith on a 3+ as a order rule)

stubborn order (never lose more than 1 model on a failed moral check)

even more faithful than normal order (easier acts of faith)

 

etc etc etc

[Beams]

We'll definitely get a salamanders equivalent, OML is definitely going to be never lose more than one model to morale, and then we'll definitely have one that rerolls charges/heroic intervenes/+1 attack on the charge, which should help Repentia

[WAR]

Since this is a speculation only topic:

 

One of my friends and Long time Opponent feels that the Adepta Sororitas Kit should be broken down like this:

 

Kit 1- Battle Sisters/ Celestian/ Dominions/ Retributors

Kit 2- Seraphim/ Melee unit/ Character

Kit 3- Repentia/ Mistress with variant loadouts

Kit 4- Rhino/ Immolator/ Exorcist

 

He also feels they need a tank not just transports/ exorcists

[Slasher956]

like the idea but I think it'll be

 

Battle sisters / Noviettes

Dominons /Retributors upgrade box

Celestians (blinged up base models)

Repentia 

Seraphim

HQ character blister

Mistress blister

STC chassis 

non STC vehicle /Tank

[WAR]

like the idea but I think it'll be

 

Battle sisters / Noviettes

Dominons /Retributors upgrade box

Celestians (blinged up base models)

Repentia 

Seraphim

HQ character blister

Mistress blister

STC chassis 

non STC vehicle /Tank

 

I think we may get a Repentia Splash Release where it is 9 Repentia and the mistress and later we will get the Blister mistress and a box of 5 Repentia.

 

The Celestian upgrade could be a blister pack ala Primaris chapter upgrade packs which would leave the Dominions/ Retributors/ BSS/ and Noviettes as 1 box or they give us a Weapon blister pack too. 

 

Which is not a bad idea: box of 5 sisters  3 specials (1 of each) and 3 Heavies (1 of each) then a blister of the other ones. 

[Slasher956]

Dont think they'll do a splash release of 9+1 repentia as thats the old metal box size... 

 

 

For the Celestians, depends how different they are to the base battle sister

[ERJAK]

 

 

Thatd be my main concern about what to come. Faith is in a good spot right now. Its powerful without being broken. Being limited to a max of 5 is balancing. Could you imagine the crying there would be if we could reliably pull off 7+ faith every turn?

 

Id like faith to stay as it is (cuz i dont wanna relearn all over again) but benefit pure sisters better. There has been mention of faith being available through stratagems which i think could work nicely - if the cp between detachments is fixed, ie. Cp only used on the detachment that made it.

I wouldnt want people crying sisters faith is OP because we could spam faith courtesy of guard cp battery.

But thats a different topic altogether.

 

Short version: i dont want people to have an excuse to cry about our awesomeness because soup and gw nerf faith instead of fixing the actual problem.

I want sisters to gly off the shelves and gw to to surprise spitake and wonder why they didnt bother with sisters before and sisters become the new poster girls of 40k dream dream dream

My first thought is that anything after 5 would be pretty pointless. With them only being usable on infantry, I have difficulty finding a good use for the 2+ roll sometimes. If you're AoFing 7 times per turn at least a couple of those are just taking potshots with regular bolters or giving a squad of basic battle sisters an extra move for and giggles. I suppose you could argue for a situation where you had 3 retributor squads, 3 squads of seraphim, and celestine; but even that I don't really think would be a big deal. As long as you still need to invest resources, the max number of AoFs you have access to per turn isn't super important.

 

The issue with gaining more AoFs currently is that imagifiers are clunky, unreliable, expensive, and totally useless outside of their AoF. Giving imagifiers a 12" move(or range, same effect) and upping their AoF roll to a 3+ would make them actually worth 40pts(maybe even 50 if we get better infantry options). As it stands now, imagifiers being really bad is why AoFs don't scale as well as they should, if imagifiers were more functional, they might not even need to add anything else.

 

(sidebar:being OP as balls is the easiest way to get them flying off the shelves. Look at Eldar.)

If your not using regular Bolters, youre playing sisters wrong. A squad of 15 sisters with Bolters or a squad of 10 dominions with 5 stormbolters, puts out 60 Bolter shots a turn, AoF'd. Put that near a Cannoness and watch as two full units of Guardsmen (supposedly the best unit ever) die each turn to your 110 or 135 pt squad earns it's point back.

 

Are power armored enemies, like Khorne Bersekers scaring you? Are Custodes? All of them die easily enough, and it Bolter squads are cheap, provide board control and if needed can move 12+2d6" to get wherever we need them to be.

 

 

Also, imagifiers are amazing. The flexibility the add is worth the 40pts. That's less than 5 sisters, and they allow you to either double shoot, double move or bring a model back from the dead?

They't always add their pts value in shooting, but the game isn't won by shooting, it's one by holding objectives.

 

Even a best case scenario(double tap range, everyone still alive, actually succeeded AoF, somehow managed to dodge being charged even though you had to START your turn within 12" of the enemy) still doesn't make either of those units sound appealing. 60 bolter shots is okay, but considering that you had to be inside of 12" of something with all 15 girls at the start of your turn(or during martyrdom) this isn't particularly likely anyway. In reality you're getting more like 22.5 shots per turn. That's still useful, but not particularly impressive. 

 

None of the armies scare me, and I do use bolter sisters plenty. AoFing them is sad times because they don't do that much offensively. I want them on the field capping objectives and shaving away chaff units, but there are a lot stronger things to use AoF on.

 

Imagifiers aren't amazing even if you are running max size units of bolter sisters. The imagifier is only 5 points less than 5 sisters and ALSO allow you to double shoot, double move, but instead of resurrection, they let you capture TWO different objectives. And they do those things 100% of the time. The imagifier has a 50/50 shot and the moment you use a CP on it it becomes far, far too expensive to be worth. In a game won by holding objectives, having another unit of Obsec is far more useful than failing a 4+ the turn you needed it and failing to do anything meaningful. If imagifiers had a 12" range and a 3+ they'd be worth 40pts, as it stands even bolter infantry heavy lists like the one that took 44th at Nova only run 1. He ran two units of naked celestians rather than try to make 3 imagifiers work.

[Montford]

Since this is a speculation only topic:

 

One of my friends and Long time Opponent feels that the Adepta Sororitas Kit should be broken down like this:

 

Kit 1- Battle Sisters/ Celestian/ Dominions/ Retributors

Kit 2- Seraphim/ Melee unit/ Character

Kit 3- Repentia/ Mistress with variant loadouts

Kit 4- Rhino/ Immolator/ Exorcist

 

He also feels they need a tank not just transports/ exorcists

 

Heheh how about allowing Repentia to take Melta Bombs? I mean they have the kamikaze attitude anyway.

[Mekhitar]

I run imagifiers less because I feel like they are compatible and more because (frankly) they give me more chances to use the sister-specific aspect of my army, so if I’m playing Sisters, may as well dig into it.

 

I’ll admit that the AoF from the second one is mostly wasted. But it’s fun to roll for.

 

I’m curious if (and nervous that) faith may get a complete rework. I have fun with t as it is now.

[Beams]

 

 

 

 

Thatd be my main concern about what to come. Faith is in a good spot right now. Its powerful without being broken. Being limited to a max of 5 is balancing. Could you imagine the crying there would be if we could reliably pull off 7+ faith every turn?

 

Id like faith to stay as it is (cuz i dont wanna relearn all over again) but benefit pure sisters better. There has been mention of faith being available through stratagems which i think could work nicely - if the cp between detachments is fixed, ie. Cp only used on the detachment that made it.

I wouldnt want people crying sisters faith is OP because we could spam faith courtesy of guard cp battery.

But thats a different topic altogether.

 

Short version: i dont want people to have an excuse to cry about our awesomeness because soup and gw nerf faith instead of fixing the actual problem.

I want sisters to gly off the shelves and gw to to surprise spitake and wonder why they didnt bother with sisters before and sisters become the new poster girls of 40k dream dream dream

My first thought is that anything after 5 would be pretty pointless. With them only being usable on infantry, I have difficulty finding a good use for the 2+ roll sometimes. If you're AoFing 7 times per turn at least a couple of those are just taking potshots with regular bolters or giving a squad of basic battle sisters an extra move for and giggles. I suppose you could argue for a situation where you had 3 retributor squads, 3 squads of seraphim, and celestine; but even that I don't really think would be a big deal. As long as you still need to invest resources, the max number of AoFs you have access to per turn isn't super important.

 

The issue with gaining more AoFs currently is that imagifiers are clunky, unreliable, expensive, and totally useless outside of their AoF. Giving imagifiers a 12" move(or range, same effect) and upping their AoF roll to a 3+ would make them actually worth 40pts(maybe even 50 if we get better infantry options). As it stands now, imagifiers being really bad is why AoFs don't scale as well as they should, if imagifiers were more functional, they might not even need to add anything else.

 

(sidebar:being OP as balls is the easiest way to get them flying off the shelves. Look at Eldar.)

If your not using regular Bolters, youre playing sisters wrong. A squad of 15 sisters with Bolters or a squad of 10 dominions with 5 stormbolters, puts out 60 Bolter shots a turn, AoF'd. Put that near a Cannoness and watch as two full units of Guardsmen (supposedly the best unit ever) die each turn to your 110 or 135 pt squad earns it's point back.

 

Are power armored enemies, like Khorne Bersekers scaring you? Are Custodes? All of them die easily enough, and it Bolter squads are cheap, provide board control and if needed can move 12+2d6" to get wherever we need them to be.

 

 

Also, imagifiers are amazing. The flexibility the add is worth the 40pts. That's less than 5 sisters, and they allow you to either double shoot, double move or bring a model back from the dead?

They't always add their pts value in shooting, but the game isn't won by shooting, it's one by holding objectives.

Even a best case scenario(double tap range, everyone still alive, actually succeeded AoF, somehow managed to dodge being charged even though you had to START your turn within 12" of the enemy) still doesn't make either of those units sound appealing. 60 bolter shots is okay, but considering that you had to be inside of 12" of something with all 15 girls at the start of your turn(or during martyrdom) this isn't particularly likely anyway. In reality you're getting more like 22.5 shots per turn. That's still useful, but not particularly impressive.

 

None of the armies scare me, and I do use bolter sisters plenty. AoFing them is sad times because they don't do that much offensively. I want them on the field capping objectives and shaving away chaff units, but there are a lot stronger things to use AoF on.

 

Imagifiers aren't amazing even if you are running max size units of bolter sisters. The imagifier is only 5 points less than 5 sisters and ALSO allow you to double shoot, double move, but instead of resurrection, they let you capture TWO different objectives. And they do those things 100% of the time. The imagifier has a 50/50 shot and the moment you use a CP on it it becomes far, far too expensive to be worth. In a game won by holding objectives, having another unit of Obsec is far more useful than failing a 4+ the turn you needed it and failing to do anything meaningful. If imagifiers had a 12" range and a 3+ they'd be worth 40pts, as it stands even bolter infantry heavy lists like the one that took 44th at Nova only run 1. He ran two units of naked celestians rather than try to make 3 imagifiers work.

We'll just have to disagree. I routinely take those squads and do really well with them. They are basically MVPs, and a guy placing 44th with an obscure army doesn't make me rethink that.

[bluntpencil]

Making Acts of Faith cool Stratagems would probably be the simplest way of doing it. Give all Sisters units (even vehicles) an invulnerable save, and have nicely flavoured Stratagems for other Faith powers. Simple, effective.