Primaris Units/ vehicles, wishtheory list

[Trevak Dal]

 

I'd like to see sergeant upgrades for Reivers, a powerfist would help that unit alot (still think they should be troops).

 

I'd also like a Primaris flyer with some anti tank weapons, not worried about it being a transport. Or a super up landspeeder just feel like I need a way to get some heavy weapons that aren't plasma

I'd probably support making Reivers stronger as an elite choice rather than making them troops personally, but I can see the value in that approach. Good points.

 

Yeah, more heavy weapons would be preferable. Perhaps they'll lean more on the Las talon?

Their close combat weapons being ap-2 maybe?

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

Yeah that would help the close combat build but the carbines would still be underwhelming

[Lemondish]

I wouldn't mind them being stronger either it's just hard for me to find a buff that makes sense to get them to that point.

I think their abilities are really where it's at. They should be a real disruptive, annoying threat that does not than just kills things. There are already a ton of units whose main purpose is to screw with the opponent by killing their good units. That's too one dimensional for these skull masked tacti-cool operators.

 

What I'd like to see is a longer lasting effect on that shock grenade and perhaps a Stratagem for Reivers that allows greater range or multiple grenades thrown. The effect should apply until the start of your next shooting phase. Then consider tweaking the terror troops effect as a way to lock a unit in combat so it can't fallback. Combined this would make them pretty effective at causing havoc in the opponent's backfield in ways that aren't "kills more".

[Panzer]

 

I wouldn't mind them being stronger either it's just hard for me to find a buff that makes sense to get them to that point.

I think their abilities are really where it's at. They should be a real disruptive, annoying threat that does not than just kills things. There are already a ton of units whose main purpose is to screw with the opponent by killing their good units. That's too one dimensional for these skull masked tacti-cool operators.

 

What I'd like to see is a longer lasting effect on that shock grenade and perhaps a Stratagem for Reivers that allows greater range or multiple grenades thrown. The effect should apply until the start of your next shooting phase. Then consider tweaking the terror troops effect as a way to lock a unit in combat so it can't fallback. Combined this would make them pretty effective at causing havoc in the opponent's backfield in ways that aren't "kills more".

 

 

I said it before, making it harder to fall back from Reivers would be awesome to make them relevant as disrupting unit without increasing their killyness. An LD test to be allowed to fall back would be great for example and works well together with their LD debuff ability which is otherwise pretty useless. I'd love such a thing as core rule but since it's unlikely for GW to give it to us a special rule version for them will have to do.

 

Also the grapple and the grav-chute should get rolled into one 1ppm upgrade because neither is really all that great compared to Jump Packs anyway.

 

Their shockgrenades would be great if they'd either give other units shooting at an infantry unit hit by those a +1 to-hit modifier or ignoring cover due the targets being too disoriented to properly take cover in time.

 

 

This would turn Reiver into a really disruptive unit that's a nightmare for gunlines with a clear and distinct role compared to say Inceptors who can just drop in and shoot something to hell way more reliably anyway.

[Ishagu]

100 points for 10 wounds with a 3+ save arriving anywhere on the battlefield. Nothing else in the book does this for such a cost.

 

Reivers arrive turn 3, mop up depleted infantry units and score a few points/objectives.

 

I think they are fine.

[Panzer]

Lets agree to disagree then.

Currently I'd much rather pay 100p for 10 wounds with a 3+ save in form of Intercessors who have ObSec, fill troop slots and can start making their points back from turn 1 on (now even better than before thanks to Bolter Disciplin) or pay 135p for 6 T5 wounds with a 3+ save that come in turn 2 and can actually obliterate units perfectly fine on their own instead of having to resort to mopping up depleted units because they suck at everything else.

[Lemondish]

100 points for 10 wounds with a 3+ save arriving anywhere on the battlefield. Nothing else in the book does this for such a cost.

 

Reivers arrive turn 3, mop up depleted infantry units and score a few points/objectives.

 

I think they are fine.

I don't play in an environment where any amount of killing power can be held off the table past turn 2. They're always arriving too late to affect the game and my Intercessors will be able to reach anything they want by turn 3 anyway. My experience is that Reivers are 100 points wasted. Those points would be better spent on literally any other elite unit or more troops to help unlock CP.

 

Should they remain as they are, I think you'll continue to be the only one singing their praises.

[Trevak Dal]

Honestly, and I know it's a impossible loooooong shot like peace in the 41st millennium, or hitting a dime sized target while free-falling 10 miles away, but if everybody, all the major tournaments and all the hobby stores just said:

 

"No, this whole 'primaris can't use old vehicles and stuff' is :cussing dumb and anti consumer, so henceforth, Primaris can use everything non Primaris can, and non Primaris can use Primaris vehicles"

 

Like I said, impossible. But that's my wishlist.

[Dracos]

I'd agree but . . . . then they'd have no incentive to make my Whispercutter  ;)

[Ishagu]

 

100 points for 10 wounds with a 3+ save arriving anywhere on the battlefield. Nothing else in the book does this for such a cost.

 

Reivers arrive turn 3, mop up depleted infantry units and score a few points/objectives.

 

I think they are fine.

I don't play in an environment where any amount of killing power can be held off the table past turn 2. They're always arriving too late to affect the game and my Intercessors will be able to reach anything they want by turn 3 anyway. My experience is that Reivers are 100 points wasted. Those points would be better spent on literally any other elite unit or more troops to help unlock CP.

 

Should they remain as they are, I think you'll continue to be the only one singing their praises.

Why can't they affect the game? They can score an objective, line breaker, etc. It's not their offensive power I value.

[Guest Triszin]

I'd agree but . . . . then they'd have no incentive to make my Whispercutter  

sure they would.

 

It would be the real replacement to a drop pod, and would becool if non primaris could use it to

[Lemondish]

 

 

100 points for 10 wounds with a 3+ save arriving anywhere on the battlefield. Nothing else in the book does this for such a cost.

 

Reivers arrive turn 3, mop up depleted infantry units and score a few points/objectives.

 

I think they are fine.

I don't play in an environment where any amount of killing power can be held off the table past turn 2. They're always arriving too late to affect the game and my Intercessors will be able to reach anything they want by turn 3 anyway. My experience is that Reivers are 100 points wasted. Those points would be better spent on literally any other elite unit or more troops to help unlock CP.

 

Should they remain as they are, I think you'll continue to be the only one singing their praises.

Why can't they affect the game? They can score an objective, line breaker, etc. It's not their offensive power I value.

Remember, this was just from my experience in my local meta. They never stood out or provided anything special outside of my Deathwatch mixed squads where mobility and SIA gave me a reason to mix one in for those situational abilities. For codex marines, they've never really done enough for me that wasn't better achieved with units like Inceptors, and that makes me disappointed in their missed potential. They're far too one dimensional.

 

I'll give them another shot in good faith the next chance I get and employ them as you suggest. Always worth swinging back from time to time to units I've written off.

 

But for now I want buffs to them as a wishlist item :D

[Panzer]

I play them every game because I like the slight conversion I did with them but so far I can only confirm your experiences, Lemondish.

[Ishagu]

They've won me games, that's all I'm saying.

 

And not because they've killed units.

 

I don't know your local meta, the terrain, the level of competition etc. In a tournament environment with proper terrain they've done a job for me that other units could not. I can drop them in behind a piece of terrain to capture an objective, line breaker and finish off a few depleted units. I run them with Carbines and have no interest in close combat unless it's vital - I think that's a mistake people make.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

Your basically running them like a harrassment unit, we get that but I think it says more about the rest of your army that it works. I would like them to be more than that.

[Panzer]

Eh in my group we play with almost cities of death density level of terrain. Still can't confirm what you're posting about them.

[Dracos]

I play them every game because . . . I like the slight conversion I did . . . with them but so far I can only confirm your experiences, Lemondish.

Pics, must see pics, or as we say in the Ravenspire, “didn’t happen”. :D seriously though share my man. Really liked your BA successor scheme. :)

[War Angel]

Hey so your getting them to work, what's the table looking like? What's the rest of your list looking like, help us to see how you make them work for you so that we can share in this success.

[Ishagu]

Hey so your getting them to work, what's the table looking like? What's the rest of your list looking like, help us to see how you make them work for you so that we can share in this success.

The rest of my list is high threat:

 

Guilliman

2 Repulsors

2 x 5 Hellblasters

5 Aggressors

Sicaran Venator

Techmarine

[Lemondish]

They've won me games, that's all I'm saying.

 

And not because they've killed units.

 

I don't know your local meta, the terrain, the level of competition etc. In a tournament environment with proper terrain they've done a job for me that other units could not. I can drop them in behind a piece of terrain to capture an objective, line breaker and finish off a few depleted units. I run them with Carbines and have no interest in close combat unless it's vital - I think that's a mistake people make.

 

Yeah, that's mostly what I used Inceptors for since most objectives in games I play need to be contested with firepower unless the match is going swimmingly my direction anyway. In any case, I'm glad they're working well for you - imagine how they'd do if my wishlist items are miraculously adopted?  I just think they can be more to fit their spot on the elite side. It's hard to kind of make a call between spending 100 points on Reivers when I can use those points to units that can contribute to both capturing an objective AND killing the things I point them at.

 

I would love to see a Reiver character, though. And as I said, I trust in your experience here and will give them another fair shake the next chance I get (if only because half a year's worth of matches since using them on the codex marine side might have helped my game). 

[Ishagu]

Inceptors are less durable (point for point), more expensive and call more attention to themselves. Also you're going to shoot with them, so they certainly won't stay hidden to score points.

[Lemondish]

Inceptors are less durable (point for point), more expensive and call more attention to themselves. Also you're going to shoot with them, so they certainly won't stay hidden to score points.

Sure, but the Inceptors are doing exactly what I want them to do because their mobility and lethality is what I need. Their durability comparison is irrelevant here. I've never ever needed a unit to sit still and squat on a contested objective - I need them to contribute more than that because I don't have the bodies. They at least need to be able to punish the opponent for being there too, and Reivers aren't that effective at killing things.

 

Could just be my local meta as I said, but I am rarely in a position thinking back on the past several matches where I needed a unit like Reivers. I always need more mobility, more killing power, or obsec to challenge control. I don't think I've ever needed a 20 ppm unit carrying a boltgun to harass objective holders on the third turn. Glad it works for you, but I'm just sharing what I wish would happen to the unit to make it worth using for me. Should no changes occur, I'll continue to avoid it because my personal experience has found them wanting.

 

But I think we've kind of gotten off the rails here - I wish Reivers were better at the same thing they're already meant to do. I don't quite understand why that's such a problem here.

 

It's a wishlist thread, Ishagu - let me wish!

[Ishagu]

Lol lethality is not what they are about.

 

If I updated their rules I'll give them some fear based auras.

[War Angel]

It sounds like what you want is a close combat dedicated unit, and the problem you have with reapers is they arnt that unit. Scouts are not good in close combat, but they can be given equipment to fight in close combat. From what I've read Primaris Marines are not replacing the same roles as the old marine lines, and that makes sense because GW doesn't want to completely invalidate the old models at the moment. So reapers don't move around better by having jump packs like assault marines did, they move around by navigating the terrain differently.

 

That said, I want a close combat unit.

[Blindhamster]

If rievers swords were -1AP and they had the option for a grenade launcher on one model and a power weapon on sergeant, they'd be just fine.