Think Tank: Hypothesizing SW Unit Combo's, Options, Etc.

[Ratherdashing]

On Lone Wolf... I'm starting to wonder if the situation of having exactly one guy left in a pack is kind of long odds, even if it's a TDA pack leader. The best options I can see are a TDA pack leader on Blood Claws or a TDA with Cyclone on Long Fangs. But knowing that Lone Wolf is an option, won't opponents just try to leave one BC alive if they don't have the firepower to finish the guard? I know you can't stop shooting once you've declared, but for me, I'd throw less firepower in and risk leaving two or three BCs up rather than see a Lone Wolf, which probably triples the usefulness of that pack leader. As for the Long Fang leader, if my Long Fangs get targeted at all, it is with extreme prejudice and they all die in one turn.

 

It's still an awesome strat, but I wonder if it's less something to plan on, and more a situation where, if the stars align, we get to cheer and unleash the fury.

 

Has anyone actually gotten a really good use of Lone Wolf in a game yet?

[PeteySödes]

Is it enough only 5 wulfen in a unit with the lord?

 

I always thought they'd be too focused fired to survive and be effective in such low numbers.

 

Also the battle leader is not meant to go with wulfen right? The wulfen stone is lost in them I thought. Wouldn't be be better with the armour of Russ?

 

It’s a hard spot for sure, only 5 can get shot up but more than 5 gets super cost prohibitive.

 

Personally, I’ve been rocking the 5 wulfen, 5 BC, and a wolf priest in a storm wolf gunning at their firebase or heaviest hitter. If they can kill the stormwolf in one go (doable but not gaurenteed, it still takes a ton of shooting to kill those wulfen. Even if they do they’ve spent their T1 to do it and hopefully your other elements are in place and ready to rock since hey we’re probably ignored.

[Guest]

 

So I was thinking of running a outflanking unit like this.

 

OUTFLANKING PACK

Wolf Lord on TW, krakenbone sword, SS or some ranged weapon.

4x Wulfen With SS/TH, and the leader has claws.

 

This gives the Wolf Lord a bit more toughness and wounds plus extra attacks. He can clear away any units that may try to swamp the Wulfen. Wulfen get to reroll 1s to hit, making a charge attack a nearly guaranteed hit. Not sure what saga to do though.

unless your WL is harald i dont know how you are outflanking him

 

cunning of the wolf is restricted to infantry

 

 

hmm I thought i read it was infantry and cavalry but I was wrong. Maybe it was just in the wishlist of things to fix in the other thread. guess he's going on foot.

[Guest Triszin]

I don't think this is worthy of a thread of it's own, but since Frostfury was mentioned, has anyone had any ideas about modeling or painting it? Trying to decide between subtle (like icy blue lines backlighting) or not so subtle (like two helfrost pistol barrels on the stork bolter). Or something totally different.

I'm thinking about using the drum feed storm bolter. Replacing the drum like part with the helfrost dread.

 

I think I want to add something else to it

[Guest]

 

I don't think this is worthy of a thread of it's own, but since Frostfury was mentioned, has anyone had any ideas about modeling or painting it? Trying to decide between subtle (like icy blue lines backlighting) or not so subtle (like two helfrost pistol barrels on the stork bolter). Or something totally different.

I'm thinking about using the drum feed storm bolter. Replacing the drum like part with the helfrost dread.

I think I want to add something else to it

The stormwolf has these tiny rune pieces with 3 pipes attached to it. Maybe put those pieces on the drum?

 

https://www.ozdestro.com/uploads/1/3/0/1/13014732/3488046_orig.jpg?304

 

(Middle far left, looks like number 53 or 58)

[Jackalwolf]

That's a good call. The iron priest has the only frost pistol as far as I know. You can use it as is or extend into a bolter.

[DanPesci]

On Lone Wolf... I'm starting to wonder if the situation of having exactly one guy left in a pack is kind of long odds, even if it's a TDA pack leader. The best options I can see are a TDA pack leader on Blood Claws or a TDA with Cyclone on Long Fangs. But knowing that Lone Wolf is an option, won't opponents just try to leave one BC alive if they don't have the firepower to finish the guard? I know you can't stop shooting once you've declared, but for me, I'd throw less firepower in and risk leaving two or three BCs up rather than see a Lone Wolf, which probably triples the usefulness of that pack leader. As for the Long Fang leader, if my Long Fangs get targeted at all, it is with extreme prejudice and they all die in one turn.

 

It's still an awesome strat, but I wonder if it's less something to plan on, and more a situation where, if the stars align, we get to cheer and unleash the fury.

 

Has anyone actually gotten a really good use of Lone Wolf in a game yet?

 

 

I think the trick is to have anything a th/ss wolfguard is attached to play aggressively, so it has to have the risk run of taking them all out.

 

e.g. grey hunter or skyclaw packs, each with a th/ss WG (and maybe a powerfist in the squad)...you cant really just leave those thunderhammers to run into your lines...as they are going to do damage even without lone wolves.

 

Also if your opponent is also only killing 2-3 from the unit instead of 5 (before leaving the last), its going to make your morale tests way easier to pass too.

 

Saying all that I still think your're right in that its risky, I fully expect to have games where I dont get to use it, but it should be fun nonetheless :)

[Guest Triszin]

 

 

I don't think this is worthy of a thread of it's own, but since Frostfury was mentioned, has anyone had any ideas about modeling or painting it? Trying to decide between subtle (like icy blue lines backlighting) or not so subtle (like two helfrost pistol barrels on the stork bolter). Or something totally different.

I'm thinking about using the drum feed storm bolter. Replacing the drum like part with the helfrost dread.

I think I want to add something else to it

The stormwolf has these tiny rune pieces with 3 pipes attached to it. Maybe put those pieces on the drum?

 

https://www.ozdestro.com/uploads/1/3/0/1/13014732/3488046_orig.jpg?304

 

(Middle far left, looks like number 53 or 58)

 

yep! what I was thinking!

[Lord Ragnarok]

 

On Lone Wolf... I'm starting to wonder if the situation of having exactly one guy left in a pack is kind of long odds, even if it's a TDA pack leader. The best options I can see are a TDA pack leader on Blood Claws or a TDA with Cyclone on Long Fangs. But knowing that Lone Wolf is an option, won't opponents just try to leave one BC alive if they don't have the firepower to finish the guard? I know you can't stop shooting once you've declared, but for me, I'd throw less firepower in and risk leaving two or three BCs up rather than see a Lone Wolf, which probably triples the usefulness of that pack leader. As for the Long Fang leader, if my Long Fangs get targeted at all, it is with extreme prejudice and they all die in one turn.

 

It's still an awesome strat, but I wonder if it's less something to plan on, and more a situation where, if the stars align, we get to cheer and unleash the fury.

 

Has anyone actually gotten a really good use of Lone Wolf in a game yet?

 

 

I think the trick is to have anything a th/ss wolfguard is attached to play aggressively, so it has to have the risk run of taking them all out.

 

e.g. grey hunter or skyclaw packs, each with a th/ss WG (and maybe a powerfist in the squad)...you cant really just leave those thunderhammers to run into your lines...as they are going to do damage even without lone wolves.

 

Also if your opponent is also only killing 2-3 from the unit instead of 5 (before leaving the last), its going to make your morale tests way easier to pass too.

 

Saying all that I still think your're right in that its risky, I fully expect to have games where I dont get to use it, but it should be fun nonetheless

 

Agree. If your opponent ignores three small packs of BC's with thunder hammering termies backed up by a pack of wulfen then tsk tsk tsk on them. They can't ignore all this pushing to their lines (or outlflankers) plus whatever elite stuff you send at them. They will have to make choices. It's our job to make them pay for the choices they make (especially bad ones). 

[PeteySödes]

My problem is I’m always so tempted to take the save on the 3++ to keep them alive. I need to play a game where just take the casualties like you say.

[Ratherdashing]

One unit I have not seen a single mention of since the codex release is Wolf Scout Snipers. It's how my own scouts are modeled and as I achieved a halfway decent snow camo on them I'm always looking for some justification to use them. Are snipers in general considered at all playable (obviously not powerful)? They're not going to deal with Knights or Primarchs or other powerhouses, but the MW generation on them seems ok enough to deal with the odd Company Commander or Reroll HQ.

 

Would any of you squeeze some snipers in a list or does it just highlight how much better SM scouts are?

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Sadly the sniper version on space marines is much better because of their scout deployment which we do no have for some insane reason.

[M.Redbeard]

The thing about Wolf Scout Snioers for me is that they don't work well with the rules that make Wolf Scouts. Ok, we don't get Concealed Positions (silly but fine) and we get On the Hunt. So now I can keep my unit "safe" (not great) and bring them in. But the extended range, the limits of the DS and moving with Heavy weapons means that using them with OBEL is a -1 to hit (you can use Keen Senses but a bit of a waste I'd say, although it woukd be fluffy). So they are worse than their counterparts at sniping because even what makes them special works against them. I'd say you could use them a bit like Aggressors to create a kill box or a point to control your opponents movement, but that is far from great as most opponents will probably rosk a mortal wound or two for good positioning.

 

Concealed positions does that role a far better favour though so it showcases their strength.

[Karack Blackstone]

The thing about Wolf Scout Snioers for me is that they don't work well with the rules that make Wolf Scouts. Ok, we don't get Concealed Positions (silly but fine) and we get On the Hunt. So now I can keep my unit "safe" (not great) and bring them in. But the extended range, the limits of the DS and moving with Heavy weapons means that using them with OBEL is a -1 to hit (you can use Keen Senses but a bit of a waste I'd say, although it woukd be fluffy). So they are worse than their counterparts at sniping because even what makes them special works against them. I'd say you could use them a bit like Aggressors to create a kill box or a point to control your opponents movement, but that is far from great as most opponents will probably rosk a mortal wound or two for good positioning.

 

Concealed positions does that role a far better favour though so it showcases their strength.

 

Five Wolf Scouts, as many Sniper Rifles as able, which might not be enough, toss them in a Land Speeder Storm, and use, if reliable, as a mobile fire support platform.

 

Sadly, the option for large numbers of Sniper Rifles may not be there; still, as a thought, is a five strong WS pack with Boltguns and Bolt Pistols able to work as a harasser unit?

[jerrys]

I see a lot of people talking about putting wulfen, or other melee units, "on the hunt".

 

I don't see how this would work out well.

 

Even with a wulfen re-roll, your chance to make a 9" charge isn't very good. And if you fail on that, they're standing around to get shot. That used to happen to me a lot deepstriking terminators and stuff in 7th edition. If you miss the charge, they would just get wiped out.

 

I guess that (if you're more coordinated than I am) you can mitigate this to some extent by having multiple threats arrive at the same time. Maybe you have the wulfen come in at the same time that the terminators teleport in, and simultaneously you have logan on his sled and some cavalry riding up and just starting to get into range. Now, your opponent can only shoot one or two of them off the board. But most likely, he already shot logan and/or the TWC off the board on turn 1, and now on turn 2 he just has the wulfen to worry about...

 

I don't know. I can never get this to work reliably. How do you guys do it?

[PeteySödes]

I see a lot of people talking about putting wulfen, or other melee units, "on the hunt".

 

I don't see how this would work out well.

 

Even with a wulfen re-roll, your chance to make a 9" charge isn't very good. And if you fail on that, they're standing around to get shot. That used to happen to me a lot deepstriking terminators and stuff in 7th edition. If you miss the charge, they would just get wiped out.

 

I guess that (if you're more coordinated than I am) you can mitigate this to some extent by having multiple threats arrive at the same time. Maybe you have the wulfen come in at the same time that the terminators teleport in, and simultaneously you have logan on his sled and some cavalry riding up and just starting to get into range. Now, your opponent can only shoot one or two of them off the board. But most likely, he already shot logan and/or the TWC off the board on turn 1, and now on turn 2 he just has the wulfen to worry about...

 

I don't know. I can never get this to work reliably. How do you guys do it?

I’m with ya, it’s. It isn’t reliable against odds wise or against a semi competent opponent. Even if you can find a spot to get those huge ass bases in is not likely going to be near a unit you want them to splatter.

 

Outflanking ranged or obj holders are where it’s at.

[Karack Blackstone]

Storm Shields for gear seem sound.

 

The clutch thing needed however is unit synergy and combined arms tactics. To keep Grey Hunters alive, you need to present a much larger threat, a vastly higher priority target, somewhere else, that is far more deadly if they are able to get their mission done.

 

I have yet to run Wulfen, however, the concept seems sound: Wulfen on the enemy's right flank, TWC in front of them, a Skyclaw pack jumping in from orbit on their right...

 

Present a no-win tactical situation. The rub is that On The Hunt is an option; do not rely on it to be the only way you can present a threat. If you only have the major threats of Wulfen and TWC, make sure they start the game on the field. Fewer targets are fewer targets.

[TiguriusX]

I like the idea of a stormwolf delivering wulfen into the heart of the enemy but it is too easy to lose it to enemy fire if you dont get 1st turn

 

Solution to that for me is double down and take 2 but then you have half your points committed and expensive models in real life

 

I'll just have to live vicariously through FPS and his new air strike army

 

As for wulfen odds you are > 50% to make the charge bc you can reroll 1 or both dice (it has been mathed by the servitors)

 

Then again you shouldn't bank a key part of your army on what is basically a coin flip (even if the flip slightly favors you)

[PeteySödes]

I like the idea of a stormwolf delivering wulfen into the heart of the enemy but it is too easy to lose it to enemy fire if you dont get 1st turn

 

Solution to that for me is double down and take 2 but then you have half your points committed and expensive models in real life

 

I'll just have to live vicariously through FPS and his new air strike army

 

As for wulfen odds you are > 50% to make the charge bc you can reroll 1 or both dice (it has been mathed by the servitors)

 

Then again you shouldn't bank a key part of your army on what is basically a coin flip (even if the flip slightly favors you)

With decent terrain on the table the thing is fast enough to hide and still get where it needs to in my experience. I actually really like outflanking a 5 man unit of GH, maybe with a melta. It can really cause opponents to alter their movement to protect the backfield allowing you to be pretty aggressive.

 

I rolled with naked 5 man squads last game and with hunters unleashed and bolters they actually did a ton of work, I’d even say winning the game in the last turn.

[Wolf Guard Dan]

I haven't yet used a Stormwolf. I want to but it is all the eggs in one basket. Cunning of the Wolf is my preferred method to get Wulfen across the board. An intelligent opponent will be be able to interfere with that. The best solution depends on the situation, the opponent, and terrain.

[Kallas]

With decent terrain on the table the thing is fast enough to hide and still get where it needs to in my experience. I actually really like outflanking a 5 man unit of GH, maybe with a melta. It can really cause opponents to alter their movement to protect the backfield allowing you to be pretty aggressive.

I rolled with naked 5 man squads last game and with hunters unleashed and bolters they actually did a ton of work, I’d even say winning the game in the last turn.

Grey Hunters definitely seem like a great workhorse unit. Space Wolves, to me, feel like they'll work well with a solid core of boots on the ground, be that Grey Hunters or Blood Claws.

[Anarnii]

Unless you really need them for filling a battalion, is there a reason so take blood claws over sky claws? I wouldn’t want to use up a stromwolf on bloddclawd when it could have wulfen instead

[Guest Triszin]

Is it bad I'm thinking about making a wolf lord with, stormsheild, frost fury on a thunder wolf?

[PeteySödes]

Unless you really need them for filling a battalion, is there a reason so take blood claws over sky claws? I wouldn’t want to use up a stromwolf on bloddclawd when it could have wulfen instead

I put 5 in the stormwolf with the wulfen for them to land on in case of emergency exit...

 

They do synergize well too.

[M.Redbeard]

For me the Stormwolf is optimal amd although it is not cheap, two might be the way to go. Currently I am thinking of a Stormwolf for Wulfen and a Stormfang with a small squad specially JP characters. That is a bit cheaper and forces to devide the attention and I cam react to the oppomemt. I have still to test it.

 

Meanwhile CotW is a coin flip basically for units with rerolls, so it isn't that bad, but you have to know the risks amd plan accordingly.

 

 

 

 

The thing about Wolf Scout Snioers for me is that they don't work well with the rules that make Wolf Scouts. Ok, we don't get Concealed Positions (silly but fine) and we get On the Hunt. So now I can keep my unit "safe" (not great) and bring them in. But the extended range, the limits of the DS and moving with Heavy weapons means that using them with OBEL is a -1 to hit (you can use Keen Senses but a bit of a waste I'd say, although it woukd be fluffy). So they are worse than their counterparts at sniping because even what makes them special works against them. I'd say you could use them a bit like Aggressors to create a kill box or a point to control your opponents movement, but that is far from great as most opponents will probably rosk a mortal wound or two for good positioning.

 

Concealed positions does that role a far better favour though so it showcases their strength.

Five Wolf Scouts, as many Sniper Rifles as able, which might not be enough, toss them in a Land Speeder Storm, and use, if reliable, as a mobile fire support platform.

 

Sadly, the option for large numbers of Sniper Rifles may not be there; still, as a thought, is a five strong WS pack with Boltguns and Bolt Pistols able to work as a harasser unit?

The LS with snipers is a cool idea, and Inquite like it. Not sure if it will be very effrctive, since you have to spend a CP on it to be really effective but it vould be interesting.

 

As for WS cheap harrasment, Shotguns might be better than Bolters I'd say on the LS. The high mobility means that they can more easily reach the 6" range to be more effective and you wakt to be a constat pressure. You can also advance amd shoot (and due to high volume Keen Senses isn't as important)

 

Is it bad I'm thinking about making a wolf lord with, stormsheild, frost fury on a thunder wolf?

Sounds cool.

 

Unless you really need them for filling a battalion, is there a reason so take blood claws over sky claws? I wouldn’t want to use up a stromwolf on bloddclawd when it could have wulfen instead

I am waiting for the FAQ to see their real unit size.

 

And another reason might simply be because you can shove them.into a Rhino and they are ObSec.