Getting started with Night Lords, looking for advice

[RipOffProductions]

I'm looking to start a Night Lords army for 30K.

 

I currently have a Betrayal at Calth box, from which I plan to assemble 20 of the 30 marines as basic bolter wielding legionaries(bar 1 being a Sargent with pistol and melee, though I don't know what would be best for either of those), but am not yet sure what the final 10 should be build as, either using the bits from the kit itself, or using additional options from elsewhere.

 

I plan to buy the Sevatar Strike Force bundle down the road.

 

and I would like to ask, how fitting for Heresy-era Night Lords would their Chaos Marine upgrade kit be(especially the heads)? and what about the Night Lord Chaos Lord(or parts within that kit)?

[SchultzChaos]

Greetings brother to the VIII! :)

Hmmm. What is your vision with your army? Infantry heavy? Foot slogging? Any tanks? Is there any rite you wanna play with?

 

When it comes to parts you can never really go wrong with the mongrel sons of Curze. Anything goes! They inflict terror, and part of your apperance will help you with that!

If you go with the CSM NL upgrade kit, just remember that the heads can be a bit small because of the wings. But then again with paint you can hide any scale differences. 

 

If you're wondering about any fluff in relation the CSM NL upgrade kit, then you should know that the Winged Helmet was usually looked as a cermonial helmet worn either for parade or maybe as an officer's mark. Many saw the winged helmet as a nostramon symbol of pride for the legion. 

[RipOffProductions]

well, I'm thinking that I might bring Imperial Knights as allies(or would maybe work better the other way around?) to fill in the heavy armor needs, so having the Night Lords themselves be more infantry focused might be a good idea.

 

EDIT: also my local GW shop still has another BaC box, if I buy that I'll have enough speacil weapons to biuld a 5 man squad for any of the 6 options included in the plactic MK. IV box, so which if any of those would be a good idea(especially among the 3 sub options for the combi-bolter)?

[carlisimo]

The Radio Free Isstvan podcast has a link to their list library in the About section of their Facebook page. Definitely look there for inspiration.

www.dropbox.com/sh/jocuvd7k2tqia3o/AACWerapnTQNVkmv0k4hQigqa?dl=0

 

The units in Sevatar's Strike force are all on the underpowered side. Sevatar's rules are surprisingly terrible - use the model as a normal Praetor until they fix that. Recon Marines aren't bad, but not good, either. I usually see them when people want to take the Recon Company Rite of War for the 1st turn shrouding (Curze does really well with that) and that requires taking at least one Recon squad. Night Raptors are overcosted because all jump pack marines used to be (but only generic Assault Marines got fixed), and because they can't all take melta bombs. Night Lords armies tend to have good anti-infantry capabilities but not enough anti-tank, so that's a problem.

 

Some people like the Terror Assault Rite of War but it suffers from that anti-tank problem. Terror squads are basically veterans that are specialized against infantry. That's great, but having to take three squads of them is not - especially because they need transports (ideally assault vehicles) and they should be full sized to take advantage of your legion rules. On the plus side, it works well with the Calth box.

Drop Assault Vanguard is great for the legion too, but not so good with the Calth box.

 

In a list that isn't based around drop pods, Bikes and Attack Bikes with meltabombs are good choices. Jetbikes less so because their specialty is anti-infantry shooting which you'll probably have a lot of, and they're poorly armed in assault (Attack Bikes at least get 2A).

[RipOffProductions]

The Radio Free Isstvan podcast has a link to their list library in the About section of their Facebook page. Definitely look there for inspiration.

www.dropbox.com/sh/jocuvd7k2tqia3o/AACWerapnTQNVkmv0k4hQigqa?dl=0

 

The units in Sevatar's Strike force are all on the underpowered side. Sevatar's rules are surprisingly terrible - use the model as a normal Praetor until they fix that. Recon Marines aren't bad, but not good, either. I usually see them when people want to take the Recon Company Rite of War for the 1st turn shrouding (Curze does really well with that) and that requires taking at least one Recon squad. Night Raptors are overcosted because all jump pack marines used to be (but only generic Assault Marines got fixed), and because they can't all take melta bombs. Night Lords armies tend to have good anti-infantry capabilities but not enough anti-tank, so that's a problem.

 

Some people like the Terror Assault Rite of War but it suffers from that anti-tank problem. Terror squads are basically veterans that are specialized against infantry. That's great, but having to take three squads of them is not - especially because they need transports (ideally assault vehicles) and they should be full sized to take advantage of your legion rules. On the plus side, it works well with the Calth box.

Drop Assault Vanguard is great for the legion too, but not so good with the Calth box.

 

In a list that isn't based around drop pods, Bikes and Attack Bikes with meltabombs are good choices. Jetbikes less so because their specialty is anti-infantry shooting which you'll probably have a lot of, and they're poorly armed in assault (Attack Bikes at least get 2A).

okay, so how does this "not enough anti-tank" problem fit with my idea of bringing Imperial Knights as allies?

 

my reasoning behind wanting the Sevatar bundle is because it's actually a discount compared to buying separately, unlike most bundles from GW/FW.

 

as for transports, I have been thinking about the Anvilis Dreadclaw drop pod or Storm Eagle, unless those are also in the "underpowered for their cost(both in points and real world money)" category that so many FW vehicles seem to be in.

[carlisimo]

Anvillus Dreadclaws are fantastic. Storm Eagles not so much, because it can take so many turns for flyers to come in and slow down enough for the squad inside to be able to charge out. Fire Raptors, the non-transport version of the Storm Eagle, are great (but both are difficult to assemble).

 

I usually think of Night Lords as sneaking in under the cover of night, which doesn’t fit with knights at all. Nor do I see knights trusting the Night Lords if they say, “You go first, we’ll drop pod in right behind you.” The bigger concern there isn’t fluff but the chance that you won’t go first. If you have a drop pod-heavy army and just start with the knights on the board, they’ll draw a lot of fire at the start of the game.

[Slips]

 

*snip*

okay, so how does this "not enough anti-tank" problem fit with my idea of bringing Imperial Knights as allies?

 

my reasoning behind wanting the Sevatar bundle is because it's actually a discount compared to buying separately, unlike most bundles from GW/FW.

 

as for transports, I have been thinking about the Anvilis Dreadclaw drop pod or Storm Eagle, unless those are also in the "underpowered for their cost(both in points and real world money)" category that so many FW vehicles seem to be in.

 

For Storm Eagles thats very much the case and if this is one of your first times working with Resin, I HIGHLY discourage buying a Storm Eagle unless they somehow redesign the thing or if you know exactly what youre getting into. Additionally, with Storm Eagles, its a 3rd turn charge at best and if they get shot down prior while carrying 20 bodies, well, that just hurts; which, with the amount of readily available interceptor we have access to, is likely to be a rather frequent sight.

 

The Dreadclaw, on the other hand, is excellent for its cost(s). Not too expensive, near-guarantees turn 2 charges, counts for Drop Pod Assault and if its the first wave, is not subject to the vagaries of reserve rolls.

 

Problem with taking a singular knight is that quite  few armies are well tailored to being able to nuke Spartans off the board on T1 and if they can do that to a 14/14/14 5 HP brick that has -1S to shooting in the front arc (-2 vs blasts/templates), then a knight is hardly going to be that much of an issue to deal with. If you want to bring knights, 2 is a good amount. 3 can rustle some jimmies but can still be dealt with rather fairly so long as you prewarn your opponent.

 

Definitely poke around the Night Lords tactica thread but, at the end of the day, purchase what'll make you happy.

[RipOffProductions]

 

For Storm Eagles thats very much the case and if this is one of your first times working with Resin, I HIGHLY discourage buying a Storm Eagle unless they somehow redesign the thing or if you know exactly what youre getting into. Additionally, with Storm Eagles, its a 3rd turn charge at best and if they get shot down prior while carrying 20 bodies, well, that just hurts; which, with the amount of readily available interceptor we have access to, is likely to be a rather frequent sight.

 

 

The Dreadclaw, on the other hand, is excellent for its cost(s). Not too expensive, near-guarantees turn 2 charges, counts for Drop Pod Assault and if its the first wave, is not subject to the vagaries of reserve rolls.

 

Thanks for the heads up, I'll keep that in mind.

 

 

Problem with taking a singular knight is that quite  few armies are well tailored to being able to nuke Spartans off the board on T1 and if they can do that to a 14/14/14 5 HP brick that has -1S to shooting in the front arc (-2 vs blasts/templates), then a knight is hardly going to be that much of an issue to deal with. If you want to bring knights, 2 is a good amount. 3 can rustle some jimmies but can still be dealt with rather fairly so long as you prewarn your opponent.

 

 

Well once Armigers get rules in 30K(and any reworking of other Knight classes that might accompany them), the balance of their firepower, survivability, and the dickishness of using them will likely change, hopefully in the direction of being less dickish.

 

 

Anvillus Dreadclaws are fantastic. Storm Eagles not so much, because it can take so many turns for flyers to come in and slow down enough for the squad inside to be able to charge out. Fire Raptors, the non-transport version of the Storm Eagle, are great (but both are difficult to assemble).

 

I usually think of Night Lords as sneaking in under the cover of night, which doesn’t fit with knights at all. Nor do I see knights trusting the Night Lords if they say, “You go first, we’ll drop pod in right behind you.” The bigger concern there isn’t fluff but the chance that you won’t go first. If you have a drop pod-heavy army and just start with the knights on the board, they’ll draw a lot of fire at the start of the game.

 

well I was considering the Knights mostly because I already have them, so it saves me money if I reuse stuff I already got.

 

and "drop pod heavy" wasn't exactly what I was thinking, more just having one pod in reserve for a surgical strike behind the enemy/on an objective/whatever else latter on, with most of the army starting on the field(with some deep striking?).

 

maybe I should just get some Rhinos or Landraiders instead?

[carlisimo]

Small numbers of drop pods are fine, whether with assault-oriented infantry, special weapons, or dreadnoughts. If you take an odd number you get more on turn 1, so one or three would be ideal. Night Lords are also one of the two legions that can give their Terminators teleport transponders (not standard in 30k!). That means you have to spend a turn receiving fire before you can charge, so you really want to use Cataphractii over Tartaros and consider giving them some combi-weapons for the turn they arrive.

 

Put the rest of your army in Rhinos or Land Raider Phoboses (if they need to charge). The more vehicles on the board, the less fire your knights will take.

[SkimaskMohawk]

It's probably best to plan what rite of war youre going to initially want to run. Terror assault favours the various pods, pride would do well with rhinos; terminators can deepstrike and vets want the box, raptor one only really needs curze to protect the dudes. Those are the two legion specific rites, with the most common generic.

 

Personally between the heavy night fighting and first turn bonus, higher manoeuvrability (deepstrike termis, lots of outflank and infiltrate, easy access to pods) and a decent board with good los blocking terrain they don't need a lot of vehicles for transporting