Seige of Terra series news

[b1soul]

"Horus Heresy: Great Crusade" would make a great setting, rather than cohesive narrative arc.

 

200 years of campaigning across the breadth of the galaxy. That's a huge sanbox to play in.

[Kelborn]

Sure but it basically consist of:

 

Mankind vs the rest of the galaxy, which we already have with 40k.

Only differences:

 

- with Primarchs

- against Age of Strife stuff instead of demons

- war on a greater scale which isn't automatically more awesome

 

Furthermore, a GC series would flesh out the Primarchs or certain characters. Not sure if I need to read more and more and more about certain Legions and/ or characters.

 

In the end, the difference between 30 and 40K is the betrayal, the fight between brothers, the galaxy set ablaze,the downfall and ascendancy of some. It's the basement for 40k.

 

The GC stuff delivered by FW is pretty decent and is more than enough for me.

 

Imagine a series of 18 books (one per Legion). Each of them against Xenos or such. :/

 

And I don't think that eras like the Scouring should be released under the HH tag. The HH consists of the HH itself and the siege. The Primarch series is like a supplement to it.

The Scouring is something different. A new beginning. THAT is something with potential and sandboxing. 2nd Founding chapters and their beginning? Xenos' returning? Traitor descending into the Warp? Count me in!!

Way more divergent than the GC, imho.

[b1soul]

Early Great Crusade would be very different from current 40K

 

A lot of Terran legions running around. The conquest of the Sol system. Reclamation of lost Forgeworlds. Diplomacy with strange human off-shoots.

 

This would be an entirely different setting from current 40K, moreso than the Scouring.

[Kelborn]

Early Great Crusade would be very different from current 40K

 

A lot of Terran legions running around. The conquest of the Sol system. Reclamation of lost Forgeworlds. Diplomacy with strange human off-shoots.

 

This would be an entirely different setting from current 40K, moreso than the Scouring.

I agree with you but still, it is not that outstanding, imho.

Terran Legions would be interesting and quite different than their HH incarnations. I'd love to read more about Terran XIX, tbh.

 

But (except some established characters, which are simple Legionnaires back then) they'd have to implement more and new ones, who have to be dealt with prior to the HH. Creating favorite chars would raise the question: Where is he? What happened? Or Man, they'd be cool during the HH but they all died for reason xyz.

And where to draw a line? Solar system only? With a handful of legions at hand?

 

As I said, I don't disagree but I highly doubt that to happen in its own format. As additional stuff like shorts or novellas in the future- hell yeah.

 

But let's be honest: Next series after the Siege has to be Bada*cough* I mean Scouring. ;)

[Taliesin]

I don't see it, Kelborn.

 

To me a Great Crusade series of books would be quite different from the current 40k series.

Just feels completely different with a fledgling Mankind out across the stars, encountering many different opponets of all sorts, there is immense room and diversity here. There could be races involved that no longer exist in 40, we see the early dawn of the Primarchs and their legions before they started tearing each other apart as we see in the Heresy. See the glory days, and whatever obstacles they face in their ascendancy of the stars.

 

I'd buy that for sure.

[Kelborn]

And that is more than legit.

I'd buy them myself, too. But overall, I'd see other crisis or events before the GC. Nearly 10K of history to be dealt with. Lots of cool stuff has happened in 10K years of war. (that sounds weird but you get what I mean)

 

Think that said other events would be more reasonable for now.

 

This was discussed in other threads before so I'll stop here.

[Silent Observant]

BL confirmed that Scouring was next at a Weekender, FW will probably follow suit when they get there in the next century :p, doubtless I’m very much looking forward to JF writing solar war, he seems to have the best knowledge of that because he worked with Alan Bligh in talking about the solar war and his own research, plus big ships and stuff

[DarkChaplain]

I think it's weird that there's such an apparent desire for Crusade-era stories and earlier when one of the main points of critique leveled at the Heresy series is that it has "filler" content that doesn't really add to the greater whole - which I disagree with on multiple levels, but that's the general consensus within the fandom that you'll spot on regular, be it on forums like this one or various comment sections whenever a book gets announced or released.

 

To me, the Great Crusade doesn't seem interesting in any real sense other than as setup for the big drama to come in the Heresy. But we already have key elements covered in the Heresy series and The Primarchs anyway, from Monarchia to Dulan, Sarosh to Caldera. Most Legions have a wealth of stories delving into their particular character and defining moments as it is. Few events have not been covered yet, be it in BL or FW publications, and while FW invents new ones after the fact, a bunch of them ended up in Primarchs. Heck, we also had glimpses of the Unification Wars on Terra already.

 

The second big criticism that the series has been getting for years is how it demystifies various aspects, ranging from the Pharos attracting the Tyranids to the galaxy to explaining Corax' shame witht he Raptors, or references to Malcador and the Lost Primarchs. Making series about the Dark Age of Technology, Unification War, the Emperor's capture of the Void Dragon or the Great Crusade getting even more coverage, seems like the worst of that on all accounts. Not only is it superfluous content, but it also takes out the drama.

 

Like, have them add new xenos species? Does anybody honestly still give a carp about the Megarachnid, or the Nephilim, or the second coming of the Megarachnid/Tyranid-lookalike species featured ONLY in the first Beast Arises novel (which felt super recycled to me even at the time to begin with)? How often do you think back and remember the Interex or the various other human/xenos civilizations that we've seen throughout the series? It's good enough to have something like the Slann referenced with the Cabal.

 

And the further back we go, the less the setting will be about 40k, or even 30k. Showcasing the Dark Age of Technology? To what end? Why? The only thing it'll really have in common with the setting is a shared publisher/pool of authors, with a token link at best. People were already annoyed enough when McNeill featured his cast from Storm of Iron in Angel Exterminatus, because of how gratuitous it was. Featuring the Dark Age of Technology? What could they even bring back into it to have a tangible link for the readership? Perpetuals? It's not like people aren't already criticising those as a mess with all their references to contemporary stuff and places.

At that point, GW might as well let BL write "Tales from the Animal Kingdom" or "How Little Timmy Complained Online", for all the relevance it has to their franchises. We can be happy enough they gave us enough short stories to fill a Blood Bowl paperback anthology, or a Necromunda novella. Might as well go look up what other scifi publishers are putting out, because that's the same level of relation to the setting the fandom revolves around. The Dark Age of Technology is best used for obscure references or as some sort of magic explanation for weird technology x or y, not as a setting to tell stories in. By the time they make the ridiculous decision to blow it up into its own sub-franchise, I'll actually be more disappointed about the waste of authors on it. Even Age of Sigmar had more relevance to WHFB when it started...

 

I just don't see the point in grasping at straws like these obvious pipedreams, when, as Kelborn points out, we have ten millennia filled with events worth covering in various formats. Events that directly relate to the setting's evolution, references that already root it within the same galaxy, and a wealth of possibilities to play with the audience's expectations while keeping the product familiar. For all it's flaws, The Beast Arises was a good thing for the setting that contributed something tangible. The Dark Age of Technology would not be unless they do some serious asspulling.

[mc warhammer]

personally, i feel like i’m getting my GC fix from the Primarch novels, in the bite sizes i like.

 

if the heresy series is meant to play the hits (and didn’t), i’d worry a GC one would be a bit aimless

[b1soul]

In an ideal world, I would prefer that BL introduce an Age of Legends (or something like that) imprint.

 

This would treat the following as a sandbox (short story anthologies, one-shot novels, maybe trilogies but focusing more on micro-scale events):

 

Age of Strife

Unification Wars

Pre-Ullanor Great Crusade, including Solar System campaign

 

I would hope the make some of the following into Beast-style series (with better coordination):

 

Rangdan Xenocide

The Scouring

Nova Terra Interregnum

Reign of Blood

Badab War

[Scribe]

I think it's weird that there's such an apparent desire for Crusade-era stories and earlier when one of the main points of critique leveled at the Heresy series is that it has "filler" content that doesn't really add to the greater whole - which I disagree with on multiple levels, but that's the general consensus within the fandom that you'll spot on regular, be it on forums like this one or various comment sections whenever a book gets announced or released.

 

I dont think its that much of a stretch to see the difference, or appeal.

 

Crusade Era stories would come with very very few strings attached. Pick a 'famous' battle aka one that is a one liner in a FW Black Book, or some throw away line in a HH Novel, and write a Space Marine battles book out of it. It would give the ability to expand on some characters, or Primarchs, or Legions, without seeming like...well all the forced action out of the Shattered Legions.

 

My (personal, me) issue with the HH and its 'filer' content, is we knew the major notes that needed to be played, and instead of hitting those notes on schedule and playing out the beat of the overarching story, we got...way too much Salamaders, way too much Corax, and way too much of the Knights Errant. Expand into Audio, Shorts, Digital, Anthology, and the main chorus of the Heresy is completely lost in all the noise.

 

Crusade Era (or any other era) would not have the same issue at all, as there is no over all story that needs to be (or should be!) followed.

[b1soul]

The FW black books provide a very solid foundation for a Great Crusade setting.

 

Just imagine a one-shot novel about the Cerberus Insurrection. That's pretty interesting stuff IMO. It's a great sandbox to explore. It doesn't have to be a long-running series like the HH series. It should just be a setting for authours to explore

[DukeLeto69]

In total agreement with @DC... Please keep some things a mystery, a legend, a myth. By the time of the present 40k more than twice as much time has passed than the difference between our real world setting and the Egyptian Pyramids being built.

 

It is a double edged sword as the HH has demystified a whole era but we got a great yarn.

 

I posed the question about whether we will get "The Hous Heresy: The Great Crusade" because I do wonder if BL will go there. Personally I hope not. As others have said we have had sufficient snippets across the HH series and Primarch series (though personally I wish the Primarch books had been exclusively origin/great crusade stories).

 

I would like a series covering the Scouring but then I would prefer the 30k era left well alone and some of the other key events from the 10k years of the IoM explored (like TBA series). I want The Apostasy. The Badab War. The War of the False Primarch. The War of the Golden Cog. Etc etc etc.

 

The timeline is absolutely ripe for exploration but keep the distant distant past in the realms of myths and legends as is fitting for a science-fantasy setting (we don't need The Simarillion for 40k).

[b1soul]

Why not keep The Scouring a mystery?

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Because its supposed to be the payoff for loyalists who are tired of the Heresy being so lopsided?

[Kelborn]

Why not keep The Scouring a mystery?

Because we would FINALLY have some decent stuff for successor chapters instead of thw regular big ones.

 

BL would have my full support if they would take the risk and only write in 2nd Founding chapter pov.

 

The transitioning from Legion into seperate chapters with heroes of the HH guiding them on their new and individual paths. That is what I'd want to see.

 

Good example: Sigismund and the Black Templars; how did the sons of the most idealistic Primarch became zealots?

 

Or take some "special" UMs like the Iron Snakes or Mortifactors.

 

There you got tons of development chances, etc.

Even create new chapters, which were not recorded or lost.

 

Individuality is a key theme for the Scouring along kicking some traitor buds. :P

[Marshal Rohr]

The Scouring should be less of a mystery than the Heresy (not that I wanted the Heresy to be a mystery). History is always great to get into but the Heresy was something of a ‘reset’ for Imperial history. The conflicts over the Codex and Guilliman reforming the Administratum and Imperial Guard have more of an impact of day to day life in the Imperium than the Heresy itself. The Heresy is the why, the Scouring and Guilliman reforms is the how, if you’ll take a simplistic distinction. The reason the Space Marines are so weak in 40k is because they lost their fleets and were hamstrung by arbitrary restrictions on their organization forcing them to fight in a way that doesn’t utilize their full potential. Exploring how the marine gave up their mightiest assets would be a cool story. I’m not particularly interested in another series that is like the shattered legions, but I would be interested in something like Carrion Throne about Guilliman maneuvering to take away Dorn’s massive fleet while Dorn is at the front lines. Especially because the Guilliman and Dorn friendship hasn’t been given any of the spotlight it deserves.

[ShallnotGrowOld]

I was there the day Horus slew the Emperor.

- Garviel Loken, also known as Dan Abnett apparently.

[DukeLeto69]

Why not keep The Scouring a mystery?

 

Because that boat already sailed the moment they started revealling so much about the HH which precedes the Scouring. We also have TBA series set approx 1,500 after the HH so The Scouring is the single biggest event between HH and TBA. So it is filling in a gap in the timeline.

 

In addition we do already have books/stories active in that period. ADB's Black Legion books. Andy Smilie's Flesh of Cretacia. Chris Wraight's Battle of the Fang. There may be others?

 

Another reason is that The Scouring is actually a logical extension and outcome of the HH. An extended coda to the main event that shows how the IoM adapts and changes in the absence of first The Emperor and then the Primarchs.

 

Final reason is that it should, by all accounts, kick ass! It doesn't have to be sequential or have an overarching arc like the HH. It can be more of a setting focused on certain Legions becoming Chapters, The Imperial Army splitting into Navy and Guard etc.

[b1soul]

At the end of the day, what should or should not be kept a mystery is entirely subjective.

 

Frankly, I think good writing could somewhat reveal a few mysteries while creating new mysteries

[A D-B]

BL confirmed that Scouring was next at a Weekender, FW will probably follow suit when they get there in the next century , doubtless I’m very much looking forward to JF writing solar war, he seems to have the best knowledge of that because he worked with Alan Bligh in talking about the solar war and his own research, plus big ships and stuff

 

I'm sure it'll happen (I'm less sure I'll be involved) but it's definitely not officially confirmed. Even around the HH table we talk about "If we do the Scouring..." and it's not a universal "YES" among the team. The Scouring wasn't a war; it was most of the Traitor Legions running away and the Imperium mopping up the rebellious worlds increasingly deprived of their Traitor overlords. There's stuff there, but there's way less than some people seem to suggest. The Iron Cage is amazing... but it's one book. Same with the Codex Astartes crisis. Great! But... not a series.

 

I think there are some great stories in the Scouring. I also think several of them have already been told, and there aren't enough to justify a long series or a setting. A great trilogy, sure. Much more than that, and I'd be less interested in reading it. 

[Marshal Rohr]

Go pitch it as a limited trilogy covering the Codex Crisis. Book I - Bad Stuff Happens, Book 2 - Sebastus, Book 3 -  Guilliman and Dorn hug, but in a manly way.

[TheRealMcCagh]

DAoT seems disconnected from 30k/40k as I know it. It would just be reading another random science fiction novel. No Imperium, no space marines, no warp, these are pretty fundamental concepts of 40k (to me, at least). You could write a DAoT novel and slap a Star Trek sticker on it and it would work just fine. I'd rather have Abaddon's crusades stretched into a series that spans the 30k-40k gap for the Black Legion. Not sure in ADB is cool with cranking out his Black Legion series for another decade though, he might get bored with it.

[Chapter Master Valrak]

 

BL confirmed that Scouring was next at a Weekender, FW will probably follow suit when they get there in the next century , doubtless I’m very much looking forward to JF writing solar war, he seems to have the best knowledge of that because he worked with Alan Bligh in talking about the solar war and his own research, plus big ships and stuff

 

The Iron Cage is amazing... 

 

 

Lies and Heresy.

[bluntblade]

DAoT seems disconnected from 30k/40k as I know it. It would just be reading another random science fiction novel. No Imperium, no space marines, no warp, these are pretty fundamental concepts of 40k (to me, at least). You could write a DAoT novel and slap a Star Trek sticker on it and it would work just fine. I'd rather have Abaddon's crusades stretched into a series that spans the 30k-40k gap for the Black Legion. Not sure in ADB is cool with cranking out his Black Legion series for another decade though, he might get bored with it.

I'm still hoping he lends Vortigern and Khayon to the likes of French and Wraight with Do No Kill instructions, to serve as antonigists in SMB-style books.