Primaris Calgar: your thoughts?

[Mr4Minutes]

So, the current rules are, each time Calgar receives damage, it’s halfed. The honour guard rule says each time a character receives “a” wound, roll d6 2+ etc..

 

As I’m reading it, super sniper missile hits Calgar, gets 6 wounds, Calgar halves damage received to 3, then you roll 3d6 to see if the honour guard eats the wound.

 

The way it’s worded is Calgar has to receive the wound first before you can pass it off. And you also have to pass them off one at a time. So Calgars rule would lessen the damage received before the wounds are passed off.

 

Any other way would make it like taking mortal wounds, ie one at a time, which is incorrect for any damage not a mortal wound. It would also negate his own rule, as each wound not passed off to the guard would be one wound received by Calgar. Which would be halved to .5, then increased to 1.

 

It’s still not better then some of the other factions, but it’s maybe sorta ok?

 

I know nobody was debating this, but I was thinking it through, and that’s what I’ve come up with.

[The Emperor's Champion]

Funny, never been too crazy about Calgar in TDA myself.

He's good, but a bit badly proportioned and overburdened with......stuff. His legs get lost under the cathedral and drapery he's dragging around.

Absurdly impractical for what should essentially be the most practical man in the galaxy.

The 2nd/3rd Edition Power Armor/Artificer Armor Calgar has always kinda been the better model. Primaris Calgar is like a HUGELY upgraded version of that.

But it's just a fact that Marine models have always been...sub-optimally proportioned. That's why we've always been all about "true scale" to some degree. These Primaris models, and even the new Chaos Marine models, are making it VERY hard to ignore the shortcomings of the 3rd and 4th edition style designs. It's a pity that the Primaris Marines are canonically bigger, and not just new Marine units that happen to have bigger models. I LIKE that they're bigger. It's cool and all....but the repercussions are irritating.

Anyhow, I love my 3rd edition Marines to death, but....you CAN definitely see the improvements to the models that have been achieved when you put them up against the new stuff.

​

I've still got major issues with the model itself, but PriMarneus does make for some badass art:

Hidden Content

That's MAGNIFICENT.

Not really. One guy holds shield on right, other on left, but it's just due to looking for threats in their respective direction. If you look at them, there is literally nothing but the rope that could be 'mirrored' and even then you can argue it's due to reversed stance. Literally every other asymmetrical detail on them is different from what I see, down to cloak clasps on pads. They even have different boots...

Spot on. Lots of little differences. Feet, boots, kneepads, capes, etc.

They were probably BASED off the same model just mirrored, but they've clearly done a bunch of things to make them unique.

However. I agree with Robbienw (seems to be a common occurrence lately) that their poses don't quite fit Calgars, if Calgar had had the arms in somewhat more resting poses it may work better, but getting a dynamic action pose version of these guards would have been equally epic!

I'm REALLY surprised that everyone seems to think they're just standing there. They're CLEARLY a Roman shieldwall, shields up, stabbing anything that gets near their boss. This is what these guys look like in the middle of battle while they're doing their job.

Theres only so many ways to do shield wall models with the shields front, if it was a squad of 5 I'd be upset, but I appreciate the cinematic style.

Exactly. If there were a few more, we'd get a couple who are mid stab, and one that's ducking and lifting his shield to block.

Do we know how big helmets are for the new models? Would they fit classic Marines?

Primaris helmets and shoulder pads are designed INTENDED to fit existing standard Marines.

Haven't tested it myself. Can't verify.

I actually really like the honor guard models individually, but I think their poses are too similar to each other when they are together. I wish their poses were a bit more varied for a such a special unit, they aren't regular bolter bros after all!

*sigh* But similar is how they SHOULD be. Honestly, they shouldn't even be mirrored, except for the fact that there are only 2 of them.

A solid uniform wall of shields with stabby swords and spears poking out between them is how it's SUPPOSED TO work.

http://godspeaks.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Roman-Shields.jpg

Well, ultramarines have usually been very Roman In theme/style. Which I like a lot actually.

I'm glad they have stuck with it, and yes those honor guard are very Roman Legionary to my eye as Well. Especially The Scotum style shield and Gladius. Rather like the Invictarus Suzerains but with gladii instead of axes.

Heck yea.

SO GLAD they ditched the dumb axes and grabbed some gladii and scuta like a proper Roman maniple. Because honestly, what makes more sense as a bodyguard than Roman unit famous for being a wall of shields?

Fasces (the axes) were just a Roman symbol of office, not a real Roman battlefield weapon.

I'm just hoping we eventually get some more Victrix Guards models, including some armed with something like a pilum.

Power Javelin?

Not sure how that would work.

I've said it before, but will say it again: I love the level of detail on the Primaris models, but I really wish they'd have made a way to have this level of detail with more posing options. Makes it so there is very little reason to own more than one version of any given model.

Yea..... The recent trend toward monopose models is really a bummer. Really kinda hate that.

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[Gederas]

Well, ultramarines have usually been very Roman In theme/style. Which I like a lot actually.

 

I'm glad they have stuck with it, and yes those honor guard are very Roman Legionary to my eye as Well. Especially The Scotum style shield and Gladius. Rather like the Invictarus Suzerains but with gladii instead of axes.

Heck yea.

SO GLAD they ditched the dumb axes and grabbed some gladii and scuta like a proper Roman maniple. Because honestly, what makes more sense as a bodyguard than Roman unit famous for being a wall of shields?

Fasces (the axes) were just a Roman symbol of office, not a real Roman battlefield weapon.

I'm just hoping we eventually get some more Victrix Guards models, including some armed with something like a pilum.

Power Javelin?

Not sure how that would work.

A Power Javelin is basically just a Power Spear/Power Lance that's been thrown :lol:

[Emicus]

Power Sword Pommel Throw? 1 use only, reduces WS by 1.

 

Target hit loses 5ld for the rest of the game in shame

[Gederas]

Power Sword Pommel Throw? 1 use only, reduces WS by 1.

 

Target hit loses 5ld for the rest of the game in shame

End them rightly?

[Captain Idaho]

So apparently being able to teleport and ride inside a Land Raider is worth the same amount of points as an extra wound, toughness and attack eh.

[Panzer]

So apparently being able to teleport and ride inside a Land Raider is worth the same amount of points as an extra wound, toughness and attack eh.

And the ability to ride inside a Repulsor which is a better version of a Land Raider anyway thanks to FLY keyword. :P

[Ishagu]

Teleporting Calgar was pretty cool, although ironically it was best to do so next to a Primaris Inceptor squad.

 

He won't miss Landraiders as he gains a Repulsor (suddenly everyone turns out to be a secret Landraider fan and apparently runs them all the time lol). Stormraven is a bigger hit, imo!

 

We'll see what future units the Primaris gain to offset this.

[Gederas]

Teleporting Calgar was pretty cool, although ironically it was best to do so next to a Primaris Inceptor squad.

 

He won't miss Landraiders as he gains a Repulsor (suddenly everyone turns out to be a secret Landraider fan and apparently runs them all the time lol). Stormraven is a bigger hit, imo!

 

We'll see what future units the Primaris gain to offset this.

I think the reason keep bringing up Land Raiders isn't because they're secret fans, but because Calgar in the lore has his own personal Land Raider. And now he can't use it because he's Primaris'd :lol:

[Ishagu]

He also has a personal Spartan.

 

Now he has a personal Repulsor with bling on it. Guilliman has a Leviathan in the 40k lore but can't enter one on the tabletop lol

[Marshal Rohr]

Yeah, I own five land raiders. People love Land Raiders. I'm waiting to assemble three more heresy patterns after the new year. Can't wait.

[The Emperor's Champion]

I think we'll be seeing a LOT of existing vehicles gain the ability to transport Primaris Marines (everything able to carry Terminators and up, probably), and I think we'll be seeing a LOT of new Primaris vehicles to replace the vehicles that can only carry Power Armored Astartes (Rhinos, Land Speeders, Drop Pods, Bikes, etc).

[Panzer]

I'd hold that bet and say GW will keep going forward like they did so far and have Primaris and old Marines separated. I'm also pretty neutral on that matter. Whether GW does it one way or another doesn't mean anything to me. It's just what how I expect things are going to be.

[beefeb]

I think the models, all 3 are utterly fantastic.  Im a looong time Ultras fan, been in it since the start and have Calgar in tall of the different style and models to date.  This is insanely good and is preordered already.

 

From a lore perspective its right in keeping with Dark Imperium.  There is a section in the early paragraphs where a primaris marines contemplates how he was with Guilliman at the start during the heresy prior to being taken to the vats and turned into a primaris, so there is nothing there.  With the leaks so far we see the motivation was to bring the old and new space marines together by becoming that bridge, and I believe the vigilus lore will highlight that he is just the first and there have been significant improvements to the process on the back of Calgars transformation.

 

I have no doubt we will see all of the other named characters going through the primaris process, with a few exceptions holding off for lore related reasons

 

Practically, does this sound the death knell of the old style marines....absolutely, there can be no turning back.  There are a lot more primaris marines coming next year...Warhammer tv interviews and the latest podcast all specifically state that there are.  Old marines will live on in collectors cases and die hard fans...but I think we will get equivalents across all the range of the marines and I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't upgrade existing land raiders etc to allow primaris to use them.  They have explained it to date as requiring user specific seats and armour docking stations, so its simply a matter of them getting a factory recall and refit.

[Ishagu]

I've had a few sneak peeks at Vigilus and Calgar went through a pretty tough time during his transition.

 

The books seems pretty great so far, lore wise, with loads of stuff on the planet, environment, armies, etc. Obviously I'll have to read through it to see if it really does compare to the Heresy Black books but it's definitely pretty meaty.

 

I've also seen the model in person. Wow, it's actually pretty amazing. Definitely a big improvement on past efforts and looks really, really imposing compared to other models. He comes in a tiny box, smaller than just the Primaris Captain even though there are more sprues.

[Guest Triszin]

I've had a few sneak peeks at Vigilus and Calgar went through a pretty tough time during his transition.

 

The books seems pretty great so far, lore wise, with loads of stuff on the planet, environment, armies, etc. Obviously I'll have to read through it to see if it really does compare to the Heresy Black books but it's definitely pretty meaty.

 

I've also seen the model in person. Wow, it's actually pretty amazing. Definitely a big improvement on past efforts and looks really, really imposing compared to other models. He comes in a tiny box, smaller than just the Primaris Captain even though there are more sprues.

wana spoil some lore tidbits?

[Ishagu]

When I can get on a computer and use spoiler tags lol

[Subtleknife]

I've had a few sneak peeks at Vigilus and Calgar went through a pretty tough time during his transition.

If he didnt knock out at least 5 avatars of khaine whilst going through the process then im not buying it hahaha.

[SickSix]

I prefer the pose of the TDA Calgar. And that is still a fine model. But they did a good job. Making him actually look older was a nice touch. But I have a couple issues with this rebirth for a couple reasons.

 

1. Its bitter-sweet, that many of us were right. Primaris heralded the end of Regular Marines. Many of us were lambasted as the crazy guys on the corner with the hand written cardboard sign reading 'The End is Near!'. Well this proves us all correct. There won't be any new releases for OG marines going forward. All special characters will be reborn as Primaris.

 

2. It shows that GW wants to have its cake and it eat too. They want to push a new era in the setting but are going to cling to relics of the past. Show some real daring and give us new named guys instead of Primaris Lieutenant #37 now holding his helmet in the OTHER hand!

 

3. Kinda picking up on #2, if its 'dangerous' then kill someone we all know. Show some guts and kill I CAPTAIN CATO SICARIUS when he goes into the chamber, or Azreal or Dante or Space Wolves Special Character #42 at least!

 

 

It's a sad time. The train aint stopping, I know that. Adapt or die. Luckily I have enough classic marine projects to keep me busy for a long while. And if I ever get out to game again I will just be playing 39k while everyone else plays 41k. And hopefully 30k has enough life left in it for me to get my Salamanders together.

[Ishagu]

You watched the podcast with Jes Goodwin?they already have a 5+ year plan and what we have now isn't even the tip of the iceberg.

[Mr4Minutes]

You watched the podcast with Jes Goodwin?they already have a 5+ year plan and what we have now isn't even the tip of the iceberg.

That was a good podcast. Always great info when Jes gets interviewed.

 

Hopefully they keep that format with the podcast, more in-depth background/design information and less buy this release next weekend.

 

Sorry for the off-topic

[SickSix]

You watched the podcast with Jes Goodwin?they already have a 5+ year plan and what we have now isn't even the tip of the iceberg.

What does any of that have to do with my post? Yeah, what we have seen isn't the tip of the iceberg for Primaris is how I interpret his statement.

[Subtleknife]

You watched the podcast with Jes Goodwin?they already have a 5+ year plan and what we have now isn't even the tip of the iceberg.

I wish they would get on and release some of the rest of the iceberg.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

There should be a separate thread for discussing Primaris heralds the beginning of the end for old Marines.

[Robbienw]

There really shouldn’t, that thread has been done before several times, and each time it has not ended well.