"Primarization" of Future Special Characters

[Ishagu]

A new Dante is probably the most sorely needed now lol

 

His model is do tiny and unimpressive. Every individual Sanguinary Guard is better.

[Leif Bearclaw]

Well Valrak mentioned in the N&R thread that whatever it was almost killed Calgar, so maybe some volunteered for it (Calgar and some 1st co vets or something) and he was the only one to survive? Could be a reason as to why they don't do it whole scale as its too risky to wipe out almost all the current marines leaving the Imperium to be even more screwed.

Didn't Gathering Storm already do that? Hence the 'need' for Primaris in the first place.

 

 

Thing is if they said that this almost killed Calgar it would be a bit of a crap-shoot if all the other named characters were somehow fine after getting upgraded, unless they get some named background character who never had a model and kill them off.

Why? There's a reason they're special characters after all. Is it really a crap shoot if (for example) Captains Karlaen and Aphael die while Dante and Mephiston are successfully upgraded? They could even do something like 'data from Calgar's run through the tank lets them improve the process'. Or just not bother, because these are Marines 'nearly killed' is a pretty common occurrence for them. Nobody important dying of a medical procedure is hardly less 'realistic' than surviving centuries of front line combat.

 

 

 

I hope they have the courage to actually kill some of the old characters and introduce new ones, not just upgrade them all. I mean marines do die every now and then? 

 

Absolutely agree. Not only do we have the process that Marneus Calgar barely survived (? I'm not sure if that last bit is official ?), but we also have the timespan between 7th edition and Dark Imperium. At least some of the known characters, even popular ones, need to be killed off. Just as GW has thoroughly revised the rules and setting, they need to kill off some of the characters to make way for new ones. Everyone has their favorite that they don't want to die and those they don't care about, so I don't see a need to discuss particulars, but some established characters need to be replaced with new (or promoted) characters.

 

There's one thing that bugs me with this sort of reasoning. It's always Imperial characters that people talk about killing off (granted, this still being quite an Imperium-focused board probably plays a part). If they go down the 'time has passed, dudes be dead' road, shouldn't all sides lose some characters?

 

Wasn't Marneus Calgar just a torso anyway? Didnt he get his limbs ripped off by a Nid, or am I thinking of someone else?

 

Only in 2nd edition iirc. It was mentioned in a WD in 1988 and as far as I'm aware hasn't been brought up since. While he got pasted pretty badly when the Swarmlord was added to the Nid line, there's no mention of him losing limbs.

[Jolemai]

A new Dante is probably the most sorely needed now lol

 

His model is do tiny and unimpressive. Every individual Sanguinary Guard is better.

A boost to his rules/stats would be welcomed too - especially in his new role north of the Rift. However, if Calgar only just survives, I wonder how they will fluff it given his age and recent exploits on Baal...

[Marshal Reinhard]

A new Dante is probably the most sorely needed now lol

 

His model is do tiny and unimpressive. Every individual Sanguinary Guard is better.

 

I would say anything that is still in finecast desperately needs an update. But yes the older and tinier they are the more urgent.

 

There's a problem of implementation with Dante (and Shrike) in that they got jump packs. What do you do with those? Primaris are heavily streamlined and follow certain conventions. Inceptors have no close combat weapons for one. Do you give D & S inceptor getups, or do you ground them and let them keep their CC weapons? Do you simply break the convention for them? Does Dante get an inferno weapon? Etc

[Jackalwolf]

I am so happy this happened lol. If they can integrate the gritty ancient feel of the old marines into the primaris lore through this terribly tortuous process they will massively improve the primaris lore in my eyes.

 

And those sculpts! I'm tempted to start a primaris ultramarine army or emperor's children just because of them so can't imagine how happy Ishagu must be. Congrats man!

[PiñaColada]

Now that this has happened, I believe this shows us how GW will eventually move forward with the entire space marine line. My theory is that the way they "get rid of" the old marines in the future is simply stating chaos has found a new way of corrupting them, at a much faster pace than ever before. Maybe that Fabius Bile failed to reliably corrupt primaris marines but in that research he discovered new methods to spread corruption in the normal SM ranks. So all characters and plenty of normal soldiers just go through the primarization to prevent falling to chaos. The loyalist old marines are seen as a liability and thus become extinct. Either by becoming primaris or by falling to chaos. 
 

I don't think this will happen in the next 5 years or so, but maybe in 10 classic marines are gone? By gone I mean from mainline rules and physical stores. I'm sure they'll sell some stuff from the website still. And GW (or someone else if need be) will find a way to implement them into the game one way or another..

The lethality of the primaris upgrade is a nice touch since it allows them to kill off a few characters to make way for new ones. I also hope that we see some complications from the process significant enough that some characters have to be interred into dreadnoughts. I've always liked dreadnought characters and I think 40k can afford to have a few more of them personally.

[Irbis]

 

Why do they keep lying about old marines?

 

You dont really have to ask that.

 

There are 918710391 standard marines on people's shelves. If GW said 'yeah those guys are all obsolete, look at this new Primaris!' people would be howling. As it is, those who look at things critically know whats up (planned obsolescence, buy these new bigger better marines!) and they can wink/nod that 'of course your Standard Marines are still valid' kind of like how you can still play Bret's, in Age of Sigmar. https://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/WSC-BRT-ENG

 

So yeah, they will keep saying 'of couse they are not obsolete' as long as there are kits to sell. Whats the last 'normal' marine kit? Has there even been one since Primaris? Whats on the Cover of the Codex?

 

"Lying"? I find it funny, because the FUD so far was shifting goalposts faster than a Drop Pod can land:

 

*GW releases Gabriel Angelos*

FUD: Uh, this is just, uh, just a game tie-in! Marines are being squatted!

 

*GW releases Red Scorpions pack*

FUD: Uh, this is just, FW being late as usual! Marines are being squatted!

 

*GW releases SM Heroes in Japan*

FUD: Uh, this is just, uh, Japan-only! It means nothing! Marines are being squatted!

 

*GW releases SM Heroes worldwide in multiple forms*

FUD: Uh, this is just, uh, collectible figures! And board game! It totally doesn't count! Marines are being squatted!

 

*GW releases SM store birthday terminator captain/chaplain*

FUD: Uh, this is just, uh, limited edition promo! And it technically dropped a week before primaris, so totes doesn't count! Marines are being squatted!

 

*GW releases SM Terminator Heroes*

FUD: Uh, let me get back to you on that... *crickets chirping for a really long time*

[Ishagu]

I am so happy this happened lol. If they can integrate the gritty ancient feel of the old marines into the primaris lore through this terribly tortuous process they will massively improve the primaris lore in my eyes.

 

And those sculpts! I'm tempted to start a primaris ultramarine army or emperor's children just because of them so can't imagine how happy Ishagu must be. Congrats man!

It's as if GW are granting my every request lol

[Panzer]

Honestly, you could easily take the fluff so that Dante's 'death wish' will just spur him into to trying the process, and perhaps after its done it only serves to reinvigorate him, or some such.

 

I see no real reason fluff would prevent his switch, and if I don't I much less expect that they would.

 

Dante doesn't really has a death wish. He's just tired and when he finally died against the Swarmlord after about 1500 years of service and Sanguinius told him to suck it up, be a man and keep doing his job he broke a little bit but caught himself relative quickly again.

[pandion40]

 

Honestly, you could easily take the fluff so that Dante's 'death wish' will just spur him into to trying the process, and perhaps after its done it only serves to reinvigorate him, or some such.

 

I see no real reason fluff would prevent his switch, and if I don't I much less expect that they would.

 

 

Dante doesn't really has a death wish. He's just tired and when he finally died against the Swarmlord after about 1500 years of service and Sanguinius told him to suck it up, be a man and keep doing his job he broke a little bit but caught himself relative quickly again.

You’re right, saying Dante longs for death was incorrect, he’s just tired and had a moment of weakness. Also to be clear I want Dante to become Primaris but I’m a massive Dante fanboy and want him to transition for a believable reason.

 

What interests me is if Mephiston is upgraded, we don’t really know what changed in him when he conquered the Black Rage, we know he received a power upgrade and there have been suggestions his gene seed was fully activated whatever that means. That leaves it open for GW to do whatever they want to him if they upgrade him.

[Ishagu]

I think Dante as a Primaris should have mechanical angel wings, like Celestine. Would be better than a jump pack.

[Blindhamster]

Dante will become primaris because of hope. No more, no less.

 

If he survives it.. is a different question.

 

Mephiston won't.. I don't think. His body is being consumed from the inside and it's heavily implied he doesn't use apothecaries anymore (has a bunch of semi magic stuff to handle various things and his own personal sarcophagus). That being said, maybe they'll say the enhancements of the body provided from being primaris is the thing that lets his physical body be able to cope with the psychic power? We know primaris half half of the god maker working... Maybe they will go full on crazy and say it goes full power for mephiston and he does indeed become the BA mini primary equivalent that some want him to be? *shrug*.

[Lemondish]

Dante will become primaris because of hope. No more, no less.

 

If he survives it.. is a different question.

 

Mephiston won't.. I don't think. His body is being consumed from the inside and it's heavily implied he doesn't use apothecaries anymore (has a bunch of semi magic stuff to handle various things and his own personal sarcophagus). That being said, maybe they'll say the enhancements of the body provided from being primaris is the thing that lets his physical body be able to cope with the psychic power? We know primaris half half of the god maker working... Maybe they will go full on crazy and say it goes full power for mephiston and he does indeed become the BA mini primary equivalent that some want him to be? *shrug*.

Mephiston becomes first character Librarian Redemptor.

[Cryptix]

 

A new Dante is probably the most sorely needed now lol

 

His model is do tiny and unimpressive. Every individual Sanguinary Guard is better.

 

I would say anything that is still in finecast desperately needs an update. But yes the older and tinier they are the more urgent.

 

There's a problem of implementation with Dante (and Shrike) in that they got jump packs. What do you do with those? Primaris are heavily streamlined and follow certain conventions. Inceptors have no close combat weapons for one. Do you give D & S inceptor getups, or do you ground them and let them keep their CC weapons? Do you simply break the convention for them? Does Dante get an inferno weapon? Etc

 

It's actually rather easy to give gravis armor close combat weapons: remember that it's less of a completely different system like terminator armor, but a uparmoring of the existing armor like MkII to MkIII. Xanthier's Inceptor lord looks pretty cool in my opinion:

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

I tend to think that biggest factors for a character becoming Primaris will be if they already have a plastic model, and if they are popular.

 

As far as jump packs are concerned they may well use the inceptors as the basis for those models or slap a jump pack on Mark X (shrike with "reiver" armor and a jump pack would be pretty awesome.

 

I do think most of the vanilla characters will port over though, I could see SW and BA having characters that don't make the switch or enter Tycho status (dead but have rules). 

[autek mor]

i would like a primaris asterion moloc please.

 

as for ranges being phased out, model releases and unit point costs will tell us everything we need to know.

[Marshal Rohr]

It looks cool because he’s altered everything about it that looks dumb in the first place ;)

[Cryptix]

It looks cool because he’s altered everything about it that looks dumb in the first place

I'm not following. All he's done is remove the aquilas on the first and give them appropriate weapons.

[Doghouse]

I like the guy on foot with the sword.

[Panzer]

Dante will become primaris because of hope. No more, no less.

 

If he survives it.. is a different question.

 

Mephiston won't.. I don't think. His body is being consumed from the inside and it's heavily implied he doesn't use apothecaries anymore (has a bunch of semi magic stuff to handle various things and his own personal sarcophagus). That being said, maybe they'll say the enhancements of the body provided from being primaris is the thing that lets his physical body be able to cope with the psychic power? We know primaris half half of the god maker working... Maybe they will go full on crazy and say it goes full power for mephiston and he does indeed become the BA mini primary equivalent that some want him to be? *shrug*.

 

Exactly what I was thinking as well.

Mephiston getting the Primaris treatment is rather unlikely in-universe due his condition and out-universe not even needed due his already Custodes-like stats. However IF GW actually decides to make him have it then they could go real crazy with it. Even if he doesn't survive it they could write something up that wouldn't mean the end of him. He has two powerful souls in his body, huge psychic might and a mysterious manifestation of the Black Rage after all. 

[Brother Lunkhead]

Don't hate on me for being a downer, but this just makes me sad for the 10,000pts of oldmarines I've collected over the years. On the whole I think it's a good thing that some of the characters from the setting I know and love will have survived the march of time, but it is a reminder of the sacrifices to the setting that were made in order to advance it.

 

Like my High Elf army for fantasy, it's feeling more and more like my space marines are a collection that just isn't part of the current setting any more.

 

Yes, GW doesn't prohibit me from using either in games, but they were both built as armies that were part of a particular setting, and the setting has moved on.

 

On the face of it, 40k/41k isn't very different, but it's seeing a shift in who's alive at the time and a lot else has changed with that.

 

Right now I'd rather focus on 30k because while it's not seen that much love from GW/FW as a range lately, the range is the setting, so hopefully my collection will never feel out of place in it.

 

All this said, I don't think this will stop me buying the new Calgar model. It's sweet. The same may be true for any other characters that take my fancy. New models being released are always a good thing for the hobby in general.

 

Well said Brother Harkus, well said

 

But, time marches on...…. le sigh.

[Arkangilos]

Why does everyone say Dante is too old and will be rejuvenated? He was only physically old because he didn't drink the blood, but he was already rejuvenated by that by this point?

[Dracos]

 

I am so happy this happened lol. If they can integrate the gritty ancient feel of the old marines into the primaris lore through this terribly tortuous process they will massively improve the primaris lore in my eyes.

 

And those sculpts! I'm tempted to start a primaris ultramarine army or emperor's children just because of them so can't imagine how happy Ishagu must be. Congrats man!

It's as if GW are granting my every request lol

 

 

You want dark and grim? Here you go.

 

I'll be the minority in this case I guess. I am repulsed at how lazy the story telling this is. Disgusted at the missed opportunity to add true gravitas the the story of the Adeptus Astartes. It's taking such a step back I feel like I've wasted hundreds and hundreds of dollars on a developing army only to find out jokes on me. Look OldMarines, NuMarines no difference at to speak of. No growth of new heroes to root for, no passing of old heroes to revere. Just another puffing up of the Mary Sues in Blue and their friends. I had hoped the other Chapters Raven Guard, Salamanders, Imperial Fist would finally after decades have a chance to be as important in the defense of the Imperium as the ad nauseum love of the Boy Scouts. 

 

I've given up on GW ever actually nerfing Eldar to a point they aren't point and click equals the win but I saw a glimmer of hope for actual story telling that wasn't totally apolcolyptic but I was just deluding myself :(

[Marshal Reinhard]

 

Dante will become primaris because of hope. No more, no less.

 

If he survives it.. is a different question.

 

Mephiston won't.. I don't think. His body is being consumed from the inside and it's heavily implied he doesn't use apothecaries anymore (has a bunch of semi magic stuff to handle various things and his own personal sarcophagus). That being said, maybe they'll say the enhancements of the body provided from being primaris is the thing that lets his physical body be able to cope with the psychic power? We know primaris half half of the god maker working... Maybe they will go full on crazy and say it goes full power for mephiston and he does indeed become the BA mini primary equivalent that some want him to be? *shrug*.

 

Exactly what I was thinking as well.

Mephiston getting the Primaris treatment is rather unlikely in-universe due his condition and out-universe not even needed due his already Custodes-like stats. However IF GW actually decides to make him have it then they could go real crazy with it. Even if he doesn't survive it they could write something up that wouldn't mean the end of him. He has two powerful souls in his body, huge psychic might and a mysterious manifestation of the Black Rage after all. 

 

 

Out-universe its definately needed because his model sorely needs to be updated in plastic

[Captain Idaho]

Here's my thoughts on the matter from elsewhere:

 

I've had a chance to consider my position and see how I feel about it.

 

I don't like Calgar being updated. The old model was great and has a fantastic pose. This is unnecessary and the writing is on the wall for Marines which I don't approve of. All my conversions I were proud of, all the army I collected and finished... All on the chopping block.

 

I'm pretty much gutted. I didn't want Primaris. I don't like how my army is being phased out as it cost me far too much money to just be "out of print". It's a cynical money grab that wasn't needed. New models can easily be produced for Classic Marines and a starter kit would make the same sales and growth.

 

What GW wanted to do is increase the size of Marines so people would think they look odd next to older models, so people will replace the older models completely.

 

Primaris are not for me. I won't be buying into it and for me at least GW has lost my sales.