Marshlands Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 Don't take Kroots if you care about having a strong list. Damn that hurts to say but it's the truth. Just take Firewarrior or more Drones instead. Cheaper and do more for their points. ^^ Something else that's interesting here is that you have half of your army that's more or less independent of Markerlights. The Drones are Drones and will die quickly to protect the characters anyway. The Commanders all have BS2+. The Riptide already can re-roll 1s on its own. That leaves the Broadside who would love to have some Markerlight support, tho even that one gets +1 to-hit against targets with FLY keyword so there's that. Just invest another 380p in Firewarrior with a Markerlight on each Shas'ui and you'll have a lot of ObSec mass, some more Markerlights and lots of screen (50 models) for your characters. Then you still have 500p left to spend in a 2k list lol I sadly concur, you take kroot for utility not for damage output and any list with The Eight is already short on raw damage output. You need to be filling out the list with things which will both generate CP and dish out damage - so Fire Warriors and Cadre Fireblades. Any other serious firepower may as well be on Commanders, you can either leverage the character keyword to win or you are pretty much getting trashed anyway. I dont hate kroot competitively, they have their function. In a list with the 8 they have some value to move further forward turn 1 and expand where your commanders can go. Not saying they're better than other options but the utility is worth something Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351509-chapter-approved-and-the-tau-empire/page/3/#findComment-5214066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 Nah, I'm playing Kroot regularly because I love them from a fluff POV. Their scout move isn't worth their worse weapon, worse armour and basically no support from the Codex compared to Firewarriors, trust me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351509-chapter-approved-and-the-tau-empire/page/3/#findComment-5214069 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshlands Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 I use them too, they perform very well in their role. I would guess to use them even more post CA 2018 with the greater focus on objectives, definitely so with the 8. Stationary fire warriors are better at killing but they can still lose and now they will lose even if they table opponent. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351509-chapter-approved-and-the-tau-empire/page/3/#findComment-5214083 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 Your Firewarriors don't have to be stationary. They can move around and shoot with their Rapid fire weapons just fine. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351509-chapter-approved-and-the-tau-empire/page/3/#findComment-5214092 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy-inquisitor Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 I use them too, they perform very well in their role. I would guess to use them even more post CA 2018 with the greater focus on objectives, definitely so with the 8. Stationary fire warriors are better at killing but they can still lose and now they will lose even if they table opponent. I use Kroot a lot, in 7th edition I was essentially a kroot horde player and would run 70+ in tournament lists. I do not think Kroot are the right fit for The Eight. They are not useless, they do still have that pre-game move, yet they do lack damage output and I believe those last points after taking The Eight need to be able to do a little more heavy lifting than Kroot can do. Now as I also think that any list with The Eight is semi-competitive at best and that will not change if you take one or two units of Kroot - it could be just a matter of taste and you do not auto-lose just because you take a few carnivorous space chickens. But as a die-hard kroot player whose main army is Kroot themed it is quite possible that the only Kroot I would choose to take with The Eight would be Dahyak Grekh. As for stationary Fire Warriors, I do not keep mine stationary if I can possibly help it. With Farsight in the list they are likely to be highly mobile and using Mont'ka for extra mobility at least once. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351509-chapter-approved-and-the-tau-empire/page/3/#findComment-5214140 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshlands Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 I use them too, they perform very well in their role. I would guess to use them even more post CA 2018 with the greater focus on objectives, definitely so with the 8. Stationary fire warriors are better at killing but they can still lose and now they will lose even if they table opponent. I use Kroot a lot, in 7th edition I was essentially a kroot horde player and would run 70+ in tournament lists. I do not think Kroot are the right fit for The Eight. They are not useless, they do still have that pre-game move, yet they do lack damage output and I believe those last points after taking The Eight need to be able to do a little more heavy lifting than Kroot can do. Now as I also think that any list with The Eight is semi-competitive at best and that will not change if you take one or two units of Kroot - it could be just a matter of taste and you do not auto-lose just because you take a few carnivorous space chickens. But as a die-hard kroot player whose main army is Kroot themed it is quite possible that the only Kroot I would choose to take with The Eight would be Dahyak Grekh. As for stationary Fire Warriors, I do not keep mine stationary if I can possibly help it. With Farsight in the list they are likely to be highly mobile and using Mont'ka for extra mobility at least once. To be fair, with Mont'ka they will be a lot more mobile. The main thing is that its '1 or 2 units'. I'm not saying they're something to invest heavily in, just a reasonable choice for an extra 15 points on one of your fire warrior squads Depends on meta though, I like them tanking smite from certain lists I face a lot, if my shield drones have a more important job of course Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351509-chapter-approved-and-the-tau-empire/page/3/#findComment-5214171 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy-inquisitor Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 To be fair, with Mont'ka they will be a lot more mobile. The main thing is that its '1 or 2 units'. I'm not saying they're something to invest heavily in, just a reasonable choice for an extra 15 points on one of your fire warrior squads Depends on meta though, I like them tanking smite from certain lists I face a lot, if my shield drones have a more important job of course That is a fair point; kroot and kroot hounds are good answers to smite spam. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351509-chapter-approved-and-the-tau-empire/page/3/#findComment-5214415 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BolterZorro Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 So, for a total Tau beginner with 0 tau unit, in a competitive/semi compet point of view, is the Start collecting a good starting point? If yes, how many? 0 1 or 2+? adn why? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351509-chapter-approved-and-the-tau-empire/page/3/#findComment-5217443 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pounder Posted December 17, 2018 Author Share Posted December 17, 2018 Welcome to the T’au Empire! I’d recommend 2 start collecting boxes. Especially now that Crisis Suits are worth taking again! I built my whole force around 3 boxes! It really is great value. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351509-chapter-approved-and-the-tau-empire/page/3/#findComment-5217464 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BolterZorro Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 And what did you add? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351509-chapter-approved-and-the-tau-empire/page/3/#findComment-5217471 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 I still think it's funny that you can take an army of daemon princes. Oh but you can't have more than 1 Commander per detachment, and if you play Enclaves who are suit heavy, and can't use ethereals you don't get an exception. It's just "well thats why you should play Ultrama-that is ah, T'au Sept." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351509-chapter-approved-and-the-tau-empire/page/3/#findComment-5217474 Share on other sites More sharing options...
brother_b Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Yeah you can take like 9 demon princes actually. I've got two commanders because I'm using the elite detachment. The commander is just so damn amazing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351509-chapter-approved-and-the-tau-empire/page/3/#findComment-5217622 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Just checked and it looks like I can add 2 HRR/PR Broadsides to my Dal'yth/FSE 2000p list. I'm pleased lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351509-chapter-approved-and-the-tau-empire/page/3/#findComment-5217630 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshlands Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Yeah you can take like 9 demon princes actually. I've got two commanders because I'm using the elite detachment. The commander is just so damn amazing.At 2k it's actually 12 with wings (CSM, CD, TS & DG) belakor and 3 more on foot (seperate datasheet for CSM), which is more than 2k lol Agree about it being unfair for tau though, they should just change the enforcer to equipment (merging the data sheets) and just use the 3 limit. So 3 commanders and 3 coldstars at 2k Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351509-chapter-approved-and-the-tau-empire/page/3/#findComment-5217753 Share on other sites More sharing options...
brother_b Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Yeah you can take like 9 demon princes actually. I've got two commanders because I'm using the elite detachment. The commander is just so damn amazing.At 2k it's actually 12 with wings (CSM, CD, TS & DG) belakor and 3 more on foot (seperate datasheet for CSM), which is more than 2k lol Agree about it being unfair for tau though, they should just change the enforcer to equipment (merging the data sheets) and just use the 3 limit. So 3 commanders and 3 coldstars at 2k Haha so there you go. That's a lot of chaos and I'm surprised someone hasn't tried it yet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351509-chapter-approved-and-the-tau-empire/page/3/#findComment-5218033 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BolterZorro Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Haha so there you go. That's a lot of chaos and I'm surprised someone hasn't tried it yet. Magic word: YET ! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351509-chapter-approved-and-the-tau-empire/page/3/#findComment-5218149 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorNese Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Nah, there's always someone who has already tried it. At my last tournament (pre-Rule Of 3) for example, someone brought a list with as many flyrants as points permitted. Wiped out all but one opponent. Honestly I don't think a mixture of demon princes would be that much more deadly, but it's not a gentleman's list any way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351509-chapter-approved-and-the-tau-empire/page/3/#findComment-5218154 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 The difference it's that the Commander replaces Crisis Suits while Daemon Princes don't replace any regular units. The Commander restriction is for sake of internal balance, not external balance. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351509-chapter-approved-and-the-tau-empire/page/3/#findComment-5218160 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BolterZorro Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 So, for a total Tau beginner with 0 tau unit, in a competitive/semi compet point of view, is the Start collecting a good starting point? If yes, how many? 0 1 or 2+? adn why? Can we come back to our Tau army please? So, how viable and how competitive are the crisis suits? I'm thinking about the quoted question above. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351509-chapter-approved-and-the-tau-empire/page/3/#findComment-5218170 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy-inquisitor Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 So, for a total Tau beginner with 0 tau unit, in a competitive/semi compet point of view, is the Start collecting a good starting point? If yes, how many? 0 1 or 2+? adn why? Can we come back to our Tau army please? So, how viable and how competitive are the crisis suits? I'm thinking about the quoted question above. They are decent enough - definitely should be fine for most pick-up games etc. Even in a really honed tournament list you might see value in a unit of them, either a small unit for Manta strike or a big unit with missile pods to make the most out of Command and Control Node stratagem. I do not think they are the best unit in the codex but they have had a massive uplift from horrible to OK. The other thing to remember about the start collecting set is that you can use those XV8 models to make XV8 commanders, of which you almost always want the maximum number you can take with the one per detachment limit. I would usually recommend 2 start collecting and then you have to start making harder and more expensive decisions about what you want next. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351509-chapter-approved-and-the-tau-empire/page/3/#findComment-5218675 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waking Dreamer Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Is it possible to get The Eight along with a crisis suit team to play around the Crisis/Farsight Bomb again? How many CPs could you reasonable generate keeping The Eight and an effective Crisis Suit team(s)? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351509-chapter-approved-and-the-tau-empire/page/3/#findComment-5218907 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshlands Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 Generating CP is relatively easy for tau, but to take the eight and a big unit of crisis you'll want at least 2.5k, to have any CP, probably 3k if you want to put the eight in reserve too (those who can). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351509-chapter-approved-and-the-tau-empire/page/3/#findComment-5221358 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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