Primaris Marneus Calgar vs Lord Kaldor Draigo

[Waking Dreamer]

 

Lord Macragge vs Supreme Grand Master

 

 

In my last topic, Kaldor was considered a worthy rival to compete (with Trajann Valoris) for the title, of the Imperium's second strongest beatstick character (after Roboute Guilliman).

 

Now, that the first of the Chapter Masters has received the Primaris upgrade, along with new wargear, does our Kaldor Draigo have to settle for 3rd or even 4th place for the Imperium's greatest beatstick characters? 

 

We all know Draigo's abilities and stats so here is the new Marneus Calgar's profile:

 

 

 

So which Chapter Master emerges victorious (crunch-wise / lore-wise) ?

 

Do you actually want our Draigo to get such an upgrade as well?

 

[Capt. Mytre]

Does he still have his half damage taken rounding up special rule? Does he still have a 4+ invulnerable save?

 

Without mathing it out, I'd guess that Draigo wins if it's purely at ranged combat via Smite/Vortex of Doom/Purge Soul, same as last time.

 

In combat, Draigo hits on 2+ with rerolls, wounds on 2+ with hammerhand, (reduces damage by half rounding up?), 4+ invuln, kills Calgar in 4 attacks. Calgar hits on 2+ with rerolls, wounds on 2+, 3+ invuln save, kills Draigo in 4 attacks (average). His extra toughness provides no benefit if Draigo has hammerhand and Calgar might only have a 4+ invuln save. Also random damage on the gauntlets. Draigo wins again I'd imagine due to his psychic powers.

 

 

Do you actually want our Draigo to get such an upgrade as well?

 

No, Primarus fluff is some of the worst retcon ever. Purely done for financial benefits for corporate GW.

 

Regarding the last time this was brought up with the Custards captain, it's been brought to my attention that Moment Shackle does not allow him to fight again, it allows him to attack again, ie a single attack.

[Panzer]

Yes, Calgar is basically the same as before but got +1A, +1T (from his new Gravis armour) and +1W. Now Gravis armour usually also means only M5 and only Sv3+ but it's a relic/artificier/whatever Gravis armour as it's supposed to be for Chapter Master so he kept his M6 and still got a Sv2+ like he had with his TDA.
Oh and his dakka got upgraded to Primaris mastercrafted Bolt Rifle levels of course but that doesn't really matter for the question of who's the better beatstick character I'd say.
 
So the question is, if he wasn't better than Draigo before his upgrade do the +1A, +1T and +1W make enough of a difference to change that?

 

 

 

Do you actually want our Draigo to get such an upgrade as well?

 

To be completely honest, I don't even want Draigo to exist. His fluff depiction is god awful. I've never seen a bigger Mary Sue in 40k.

Ignoring those things ... I don't really care. I like Primaris even tho I think their fluff could have been written better but that's just GW trying to write stories and we know they never could do such things that well in the first place. There's a reason Black Library exists. I also don't think it's a retcon at all like Mytre does. It doesn't change or remove anything that existed before. It just adds something new that got done behind the scenes and GW left a LOT of possibilities for something like that to be done in the 40k narrative.

[Waking Dreamer]

Yes, he does keep his 4++ and Half-damage (rounding up) ability from his Terminator days.

 

That's interesting point about his Moment Shackle. On the WHC preview page it does state, "...pile in and attack with Trajann Valoris and additional time." Can someone with the Codex / Custodes player verify this? I've always assumed / read custode tactics that it was "Fight" one more time. Oh well.

 

Also post-CA 2018, Valoris and Draigo has gone down significantly while maintaining his slightly 5 points more over Draigo's now 180 points. While Primaris Calgar now exceeds both at (i think) 25 points more over Draigo.  In keeping with the comparisons do people think they are all about as point-efficient as each other, keeping in mind their additional buffs and benefits. Draigo is almost an auto-include for GKs, would them same be said for Valoris and  Calgar for their respective armies?

[Trevak Dal]

Do the gauntlets give PriMarneus 2 rapid fire 2 shots or is it just like he has a storm Bolter?

[Panzer]

Gauntlets is plural so only one Rapid Fire 2 shooting attack. It's a combined profile for both fists.

[Waking Dreamer]

 

No, Primarus fluff is some of the worst retcon ever. Purely done for financial benefits for corporate GW.

 

Regarding the last time this was brought up with the Custards captain, it's been brought to my attention that Moment Shackle does not allow him to fight again, it allows him to attack again, ie a single attack.

 

Just checked with Custodes players, they confirm he gets to "fight" again at the end of the fight phase with his full attacks. 

 

@sfPanzer

 

I consider Mortarion's Heart by L J Goulding as required reading / listening material, in regards to Draigo's character in the fluff. It's a pretty short ebook (only about 45mins in the audio format), that is the perfect origin story to Kaldor Draigo. You see him as a GM and the story of how he inevitably became the Supreme GM, the explicit events of how he came face to face with Daemon Primarch Mortarion, and how he was the one left standing.

 

Forget about the 5ed GK fluff, and just read the 7ed GK codex, Mortarion's Heart and maybe the Pandorax Campaign if you have time (that novel is a little long), and you'll realise Draigo is actually just a swell guy. 

[Capt. Mytre]

 

 

No, Primarus fluff is some of the worst retcon ever. Purely done for financial benefits for corporate GW.

 

Regarding the last time this was brought up with the Custards captain, it's been brought to my attention that Moment Shackle does not allow him to fight again, it allows him to attack again, ie a single attack.

 

Just checked with Custodes players, they confirm he gets to "fight" again at the end of the fight phase with his full attacks.

 

Maybe there's been an errata, so they know something I don't, but:

 

"At the end of the Fight phase, pile in and attack with Trajann Valoris an additional time."

 

If it allowed you to use all your attacks, it would say fight again. It specifically says attack and it says an additional time, ie, 1. If it was allowing him to fight again, why specifically note that they may pile in, given that any time a unit is chosen to fight, they may pile in. Does that mean he can pile in twice in a row, then fight?

[Lord Raven 19]

Draigo had a 3++ from his storm shield

[Spiritual Liege]

With Hammerhand on, the fight is goes to Draigo. He will kill Calgar in two round, while Calgar will need three.

 

If Draigo has no Hammerhand, the fight is pretty even, with both needing 3 rounds.

 

No other powers/stratagems/ranged combat have been taken into account. Heed the Prognosticars is extremely powerful and if it is used in conjuction with Hammerhand, he will win. If Calgar gets to use Honour the Chapter as a compensation, Draigo will still win with Hammerhand, and break even if not.If Draigo uses mind bullets, he will deal more damage but with his Smite being only a single wound and Vortex being difficult to cast, the end result won't be affected.