Blood Angels Unit of the Week series Unit of the Week: Assault Squad

[Indefragable]

When considering ASM, always ask why aren’t you using them with jump packs?

 

Take Megavolt87’s example above. What advantage does putting them in the Rback give you?

 

A. Protection against T1 shooting?

B. Less drops to help get that +1 to go first?

 

A can be mitigated with smart deployment and/or by having them hide behind the LoS-blocking vehicle as they move up the board.

 

B is a losing proposition, in my experience, unless you engineer your whole list to be as few drops as possible. In which case you’ve brought a Mastodon and Thunderhawk.

 

Tacticals and Scouts don’t have mobility options, so putting them in Transports is key. ASM w jump packs you can have your cake and eat it too.

[Charlo]

So back when 8th was fairly new, there was a list floating around based around a BA brigade where one of the main offensive threats was 3 squads of Assault Marines with 2 Plas, Combi-Plas and a nearby Captain with Combi-Plas for rerolls, maybe a Leiutenant sprinkled in for funsies as well... However they use jump packs for Deep Striking. Only needing to be 12" away means you have a bit more freedom in placement too.

 

Essentially they're rather cheap for what they do, spread the threat around and 10 Plasma-guns, overcharged with re-rolls isn't to be sniffed at. Obviously they form a part of a much larger combined arms approach, something marines have always been prone to (min guys for max special weapons) but YMMV.

[Panzer]

With the 04/29/2019 FAQ changing Hand Flamers to D6 but leaving them at 1 point and CA 2018 dropping JP ASM to 15ppm, i have begun to reconsider both of them. The prospect of having 3d6 auto hitting shots+1d6 frag grenade and a bolt pistol, followed by 11 CC attacks, all for the paltry sum of 78pts is really starting piquing my interest.

If i have done the math correctly, the above set up should be able to do an average of 8.632 unsaved wounds to a GEQ unit.  not terrible, though it admittedly is only an average and requires getting within 6" of the target to pull off, but interesting nonetheless.

 

I'd rather take some Veterans for the same task still to be honest. A unit of Veterans can take double hand flamers and still have the same amount of attacks. Sure it won't be as cheap, but not exactly expensive either (80p for 5x2 hand flamers and 11 attacks) and you pay a lot for the Marine body one way or another so it's better to make the most of it.

 

Assault Marines simply can't do anything other units can't do better.

 

But since this is the unit of the week thread and the point is to think about how to use a unit if you have to use it ... it's not the worst loadout I guess.

[Karhedron]

Back in 7th I built 2 RAS squads on foot. 5-man each with 2 melta guns and a Serg with dual inferno pistols (it was all the rage at the time ).

 

Now I am trying to decide what to do with them. I don't think dual inferno pistols is a legal option anymore and neither is a combi-melta as far as I can see. Do I just take off 1 pistol and give the Sergs Chainswords instead?

 

I could put them in a Pod but that would leave the Serg out of range on the drop. I could put them in a Storm Raven as they are pretty cheap and will benefit from getting to target faster (if not shot down). I could give them jump packs. I could paint the helmets gold and play them as Company Veterans.

 

Given the size of my UFO pile, I would prefer to keep modifications to a minimum if possible but I would like people's thoughts on the best way to get mileage out of these fellas.

Edited June 5, 2019 by Karhedron

[Panzer]

Back in 7th I built 2 RAS squads on foot. 5-man each with 2 melta guns and a Serg with dual inferno pistols (it was all the rage at the time ).

 

Now I am trying to decide what to do with them. I don't think dual inferno pistols is a legal option anymore and neither is a combi-melta as far as I can see. Do I just take off 1 pistol and give the Sergs Chainswords instead?

 

I could put them in a Pod but that would leave the Serg out of range on the drop. I could put them in a Storm Raven as they are pretty cheap and will benefit from getting to target faster (if not shot down). I could give them jump packs. I could paint the helmets gold and play them as Company Veterans.

 

Given the size of my UFO pile, I would prefer to keep modifications to a minimum if possible but I would like people's thoughts on the best way to get mileage out of these fellas.

 

Yeah neither double Inferno Pistols nor combi-melta is not a thing for the Sergeant anymore unfortunately. Either you go with counts-as or you unfortunately are forced to replace one arm if you want WYSIWYG I fear.

 

Normally I'd just give them Jump Packs since Drop Pods are way overcosted but since you already have them putting them in a Pod is not the worst idea but I think I'd rather put them in a Stormraven instead. I'm a fan of cheap-ish units in an expensive transport since those transports usually carry enough firepower to draw enough fire on their own and if they get blasted to bits it doesn't hurt as much to lose only some of the cheap-ish guys (or have them stranded nowhere) instead of Terminators or whatever. Maybe even just in a Razorback or Rhino to keep things even cheaper with an even lower profile.

 

Re-painting them as Veterans would kinda still 'force' you to re-do their loadout if you want to get the most out of them so if you are looking for the best way to use them with the least amount of work I don't think that's a good option.

 

Normally (another one lol) I'd say keep them the way they are and maybe only change the Sergeants loadout because GW keeps re-balancing units all the time and with a new edition they might become better than Veterans again ... however with Primaris being there I'm half-expecting to see the old Marine units getting phased out over time so the chances for that to happen are rather slim. Better use them while we still can.

 

 

So basically if it's about using them to good effect with the least amount of work my priority would be:

1. Change the Sergeants loadout for WYSIWYG and put them in a transport that's not a Drop Pod unless you really want to
2. Change the Sergeants loadout for WYSIWYG and give them Jump Packs
3. Change all their loadouts to whatever you want, give them Jump Packs and re-paint them as Veterans

and if it's about simply getting the most out of those models regardless of how much work it is, just read the list from bottom to top (though putting them in a cheap transport and giving them Jump Packs is kinda on the same level I'd say). ^^

[Djangomatic82]

Back in 7th I built 2 RAS squads on foot. 5-man each with 2 melta guns and a Serg with dual inferno pistols (it was all the rage at the time ).

 

Now I am trying to decide what to do with them. I don't think dual inferno pistols is a legal option anymore and neither is a combi-melta as far as I can see. Do I just take off 1 pistol and give the Sergs Chainswords instead?

 

I could put them in a Pod but that would leave the Serg out of range on the drop. I could put them in a Storm Raven as they are pretty cheap and will benefit from getting to target faster (if not shot down). I could give them jump packs. I could paint the helmets gold and play them as Company Veterans.

 

Given the size of my UFO pile, I would prefer to keep modifications to a minimum if possible but I would like people's thoughts on the best way to get mileage out of these fellas.

From the Index Imperium 1

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/warhammer_40000_index_imperium_1_en-1.pdf

 

Page 42 – Assault Squad, Wargear OptionsChange the first and second bullet points to read:‘• The Space Marine Sergeant may replace his bolt pistol and chainsword with two items from the Melee Weapons and/or Pistols lists .

 

edit: Hmm, that changes up a few things in my spread sheet.

RAS w.3xHand Flamers Vs. GEQ: 8.643 Damage=9.024 points per damage for the entire unit.

VAS w.3XHand FlamersVs. GEQ:10.49 Damage=8.38 points per damage for the entire unit.

RAS w. 4xHand Flamers Vs. GEQ: 9.024 Damage=8.369 points per damage for the entire unit.

VAS w. 4xHand Flamers Vs. GEQ: 11.290 Damage=7.882 points per damage for the entire unit.

Edited June 5, 2019 by Djangomatic82

[Karhedron]

Thanks for pointing that one out!

[Panzer]

Good to know there was an Errata for the Index that fixes it lol

I guess nobody from the Battlescribe team checked those either.

[Djangomatic82]

Yeah, Im starting to get a hankering for a 4x Hand Flamer RAS squad now. not expecting it to be amazing, but should be fun, or maddeningly frustrating to get into range, either way, i'm sold. Just need to come up with a sweet pose for that dual HF sergeant :D

[Majkhel]

That may change the meaning of RAS to "REDEMPTION Assault Squad" :P

[Charlo]

Yeah, Im starting to get a hankering for a 4x Hand Flamer RAS squad now. not expecting it to be amazing, but should be fun, or maddeningly frustrating to get into range, either way, i'm sold. Just need to come up with a sweet pose for that dual HF sergeant :D

Use veterans and have ten flamers instead ;)

[Djangomatic82]

 

Yeah, Im starting to get a hankering for a 4x Hand Flamer RAS squad now. not expecting it to be amazing, but should be fun, or maddeningly frustrating to get into range, either way, i'm sold. Just need to come up with a sweet pose for that dual HF sergeant

Use veterans and have ten flamers instead

 

lol, yeah, i know VAS can do it betterl, but in all honesty, choosing which Elites to bring along without filling slots that dont contribute CP in some way has been a challenge, so 3x elites and 3x fast attack for an vanguard and outrider detachment is what i'm looking at instead of just tacking on more units to a battallion or such.

[Panzer]

 

 

Yeah, Im starting to get a hankering for a 4x Hand Flamer RAS squad now. not expecting it to be amazing, but should be fun, or maddeningly frustrating to get into range, either way, i'm sold. Just need to come up with a sweet pose for that dual HF sergeant

Use veterans and have ten flamers instead

 

lol, yeah, i know VAS can do it betterl, but in all honesty, choosing which Elites to bring along without filling slots that dont contribute CP in some way has been a challenge, so 3x elites and 3x fast attack for an vanguard and outrider detachment is what i'm looking at instead of just tacking on more units to a battallion or such.

 

 

You can take up to 6 Elite units in a Vanguard detachment ... that should be more than enough. ^^

[Djangomatic82]

 

 

 

Yeah, Im starting to get a hankering for a 4x Hand Flamer RAS squad now. not expecting it to be amazing, but should be fun, or maddeningly frustrating to get into range, either way, i'm sold. Just need to come up with a sweet pose for that dual HF sergeant

Use veterans and have ten flamers instead

 

lol, yeah, i know VAS can do it betterl, but in all honesty, choosing which Elites to bring along without filling slots that dont contribute CP in some way has been a challenge, so 3x elites and 3x fast attack for an vanguard and outrider detachment is what i'm looking at instead of just tacking on more units to a battallion or such.

 

 

You can take up to 6 Elite units in a Vanguard detachment ... that should be more than enough. ^^

 

kinda, but anything more than the mandatory 3 in the unit is "wasted" in regards to providing CP, and running a battallion and one other detachment for 9cp has begun to feel very unfulfilling.

Edited June 6, 2019 by Djangomatic82

[Thaliontil]

What are your thoughts on the Assault Squad with shock assault now?  I've been thinking of adding a small squad of 5 with jump packs (I think they stand at 76 points) and chainswords + Hand flamer on the sergeant. As a cheap and mobile chaff-removal unit (16 attacks) I think they could find a place now.

 

P.S: Sorry if it's forbidden to up old topics! Saw that the one of the drop pod was on the first page of the sub-forum and thought of writing on this one.

[Panzer]

Still the same as before ... why if you could take Veterans instead?

[SnorriSnorrison]

Sadly, both VAS and scout bikes outperform RAS in terms of either melee or ranged damage, and the scout bikes clear chaff much better for 69 points for a squad. Hammer of Wrath, once we can use it, could be nice, but RAS need to be a troops choice in my opinion to be of any value atm. If 0-2 Assault squads could be taken as troops (with or without ObSec), I’d use those every game.

[Jolemai]

P.S: Sorry if it's forbidden to up old topics! Saw that the one of the drop pod was on the first page of the sub-forum and thought of writing on this one.

Necroposting is against the rules however this is new discussion on a series of tactics articles so it's permitted. If someone says anything, just blame Jolemai as I do it all the time ;)

[Thaliontil]

 

P.S: Sorry if it's forbidden to up old topics! Saw that the one of the drop pod was on the first page of the sub-forum and thought of writing on this one.

Necroposting is against the rules however this is new discussion on a series of tactics articles so it's permitted. If someone says anything, just blame Jolemai as I do it all the time

 

 

Thanks ;)!

 

And thank you for the opinions. I hadn't thought about the Veterans and in my mind they were way more expensive, but they are definitely better. I agree that it would be nice (and would make sense lorewise) to have them as Troops option, so let's see what happens with the new Codex.

[The Unseen]

I think assault marines did get *better* compared to vets.

Yes, vets also got +1 attack, but for them that's a 33% increase on offence, or only 25% if they already had a chainsword.

 

For assault marines, they got a whopping 50% damage buff in melee, going from 2 to 3.

 

And because assault marines are still slightly cheaper per model, you get more bonus attacks per point spent from shock assault too.

A 5 man squad is getting 16 attacks now, which is solidly average, compared to their previous very anemic 11.

 

With shock assault, I think vanguard want to go in on some power weapons even more now, as they have the attack volume to support it, where previously I didn't think they did, especially when compared to DC.

Now a unit with shields and swords is tempting, as 3 power sword swings a pop is good.

 

I don't think they're great now, but taking a double melta/plasma deep striking squad for some light fire support and late game objective grabbing now just feels like it's subpar, rather than objectively bad.

[BluejayJunior]

I was also thinking about this. 

My thought was to use 3 hand-flamers. With either a chainsword or power sword on the Sgt. Use 2-3 of these squads for chaff clearing duties. It's something that I am going to build up and play with because I think it would be fun.

Although, the same problem is always there. I could do the same thing with a Vanguard Vet squad, which would be more effective. VV could also 5 hand-flamers instead of only 3. The Vanguard Vets are always more effective. Unless you're already taking multiple VV squads with different loadouts, there isn't a competitive reason to use the ASM.

I still think it would be a fun choice though. 

[Djangomatic82]

I built up a squad with 4x hand flamers, 2 being on the Sgt. Trading out the 1 cc attack from the chain sword for D6 auto hitting shots for 1 point is a pretty good deal imo. I've only run them in one game since unfortunately, but they did solid work versus a buddies Dire Avengers and Guardians. For a 79 point unit, I'm sold on them.

PS: one thing i need to remember more often is that one of the 2 bolt pistol toting ASM can instead chuck a Frag grenade to up your total shots to 5D6+1. the straight up volume of shots that the unit throws out when in range is surprisingly nice. looking forward to seeing how they perform now with Shock Assault.

Edited August 26, 2019 by Djangomatic82

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

I think when I get around to building and playing with my RAS, I'd either run them with meltaguns or plasmaguns as those options really set us apart from vanilla assault marines and our own vanguard veterans. I'm erring towards two plasmaguns and either a plasma pistol or inferno pistol and thunderhammer on the sarge. I know people think they're hot garbage, but I'm gonna run an eviscerator as well, mainly cause I think it looks cool. Basically the squad will be set up as mobile anti tank. I think vanguard veterans with a mix of different CQC weapons and handflamers or bolter Inceptors are a better choice for hordes.

[Demoulius]

RAS have been a staple for my army for a pretty long while. Havent played any major games in this edition yet but they feel like lack a punch tbh. Mind you not much has changed about their load out or gear so its probably mostly in my head. I do like that the powersword is so cheap now, as it used to be  take a powerfist or a bare sargeant, there was no other option basicly. You dident have much other options

 

Has anyone tried out eviscerators? I find it hilarious that aside from the sargeant you can have 2 guys with special weapons (pistols, plasma/melta etc) and 2 with eviscerators. Mind you they are only 1A models but on the charge (or when getting charged) you get 2 S8 +1 to wound characters with -4AP.

 

If you have a 10 man squad with sargeant with powersword and plasmapistol, 2 plasmaguns, 2 eviscerators you have a pretty versatile squad. Sounds like something that will tear a chunk out of things like knights pretty easily on a good turn. Theyre abit more expensive with this setup mind you and far from the perfect choice for all these shiney upgrades; but maybe worth some experimentation? If anything you can use them as throw-away units alot easier then our more elite assault units ;)

[Xenith]

Time to awaken this sleeper!

 

I have an asault squad modelled with 2 plasma pistols - is there any point to these or will they be much better served with plasma guns? The would be pretty easy to cut the hand off and replace. This was a 5th ed gunslinging unit with 2 plasma pistols and serge with 2 plasmas also. 

 

Anyone seeing a use in the new edition for a 2x plasma assault squad? How are your guys faring with 2x wounds and AP-1? 

Edited November 17, 2020 by Jolemai
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