Vanguard Primaris Marines - Intro Thread

[Ishagu]

I'm very happy to get back on topic. I just want to point out for the record that the only reason we're even talking about Reivers is because someone brought them up to complain about them.

 

This is the kind of negative derailing I'm talking about when I say people are overly negative. Am I overly positive? Sure. Are many others guilty of the opposite? Definitely.

 

On the topic of Intercessors, I'm happy with them staying as they are - a basic Troop unit with a clear purpose. They lack the volume of attacks and mobility to ever be a worthwhile dedicated assault unit.

 

I'd much rather we eventually got a focused close combat squad, but I doubt this release will feature it.

[Sete]

Currently Primaris are way to shooty focused for me to properly pick them up.

 

I don't need a super elite stabby unit, but a cheap troop choice.

Legions had the option to swap the bolters for cc, it would be great to have that option again.

 

Ofc Primaris sword bros would be awesome, but I feel like GW is going generic before focusing on chapter specific units. If they ever do that.

[Blindhamster]

I love the primaris stuff. I actually quite like reivers from a looks perspective but I don't enjoy using them as they don't really do the job they're described as doing in the books.

 

Intercessors are great and my favourite primaris kit.

 

I do echo the sad comments about there seeming to still be a lack of good primaris melee. I don't need chainswords, but a good melee unit of some kind would be great and is definitely a thing that is needed to help get the feel of a number of chapters.

 

Aggressors could be made much more viable for melee if they got an extra attack. Gravis captains should really have the gravis ability to move, advance and shoot like aggressors. Rievers could be made a viable melee unit simply by giving their blades an AP mod.

 

 

 

New stuff:

The snipers look great, And assuming they gave decent ammo options or just a good gun, I can see them being an excellent support unit.

 

Librarian is a wonderful model, interested to see what abilities they get.

 

The heavy autocannon unit could be cool, it needs to be pretty meaty as a gun to make it justified though, so we shall see what it's like. It looks like modifier tactic armor to me, which I like!

 

The other troop unit is a total unknown, but I hope it does something interesting to make it stand out from intercessors without overshadowing them.

[Marshal Reinhard]

Generic primaris company veterans that you can tool however you want would go a long way, but they won't design a unit that doesn't come with all the options it can equip, so typically you only get maybe 2 weapon options (inceptors, agressors) or units that basicly have 1 weapon that you can make multiple variants of (intercessors, Hellblasters).. so a kit with a wide variety of options seems unlikely.

 

(Huh, thinking about it, Reivers are actually a bit of an exception as they come with what, 3 different armament options and the option to take grav-chutes or not, in a box that comes with 10 of them no less...)

 

Regardless, I also feel like Primaris needs more delivery methods unless a hypothetical melee units doesn't have some of its own, like say grav-chutes (That's them fins ya don't like, Sete )

[Boldthreat]

I have been iffy on rievers for some time. The skull mask was something that didn't sit well with me. But I'm getting over it. I loved the rest. My main point of concern is with this new vanguard troop coming out... Are they not extremely similar to rievers? Granted we don't even know what they are capable of, it just appears that they are similarly armed. I doubt they will get grav chutes and stuff. It just makes me kind of wish the rievers had a little more oomph as a veteran unit. The knives being power knives as described in Dark Imperium would have sit better with me especially now... I hope it's something they look at down the road.

[Marshal Reinhard]

I have been iffy on rievers for some time. The skull mask was something that didn't sit well with me. But I'm getting over it. I loved the rest. My main point of concern is with this new vanguard troop coming out... Are they not extremely similar to rievers? Granted we don't even know what they are capable of, it just appears that they are similarly armed. I doubt they will get grav chutes and stuff. It just makes me kind of wish the rievers had a little more oomph as a veteran unit. The knives being power knives as described in Dark Imperium would have sit better with me especially now... I hope it's something they look at down the road.

 

They're similiar to the point that they're wearing the same type of armor as Reivers, but have differences in loudouts and roles. Reivers are Close support, while we the Eiminators are fire support and the troop choice guy's we've seen in artwork are (called chem Reivers by some) are Battleline. So different roles, but all wear "silenced" armor

[Panzer]

 

I have been iffy on rievers for some time. The skull mask was something that didn't sit well with me. But I'm getting over it. I loved the rest. My main point of concern is with this new vanguard troop coming out... Are they not extremely similar to rievers? Granted we don't even know what they are capable of, it just appears that they are similarly armed. I doubt they will get grav chutes and stuff. It just makes me kind of wish the rievers had a little more oomph as a veteran unit. The knives being power knives as described in Dark Imperium would have sit better with me especially now... I hope it's something they look at down the road.

 

They're similiar to the point that they're wearing the same type of armor as Reivers, but have differences in loudouts and roles. Reivers are Close support, while we the Eiminators are fire support and the troop choice guy's we've seen in artwork are (called chem Reivers by some) are Battleline. So different roles, but all wear "silenced" armor

 

 

Well that's their role in a company, but what's their role game-wise? Reiver can already be about as shooty as Intercessors with their Bolt Carbine. ObSec is a thing if they are Troop but only a rather weak argument for a unit with high cost per model as they get easily outnumbered by other ObSec units anyway. So unless they bring more to the table than one of the Bolter variants we've already seen on Intercessors/Reivers and possibly a deep strike mechanic (though unlikely) they'll be a rather lame addition to the Primaris roster. Especially compared to the other new things like Eliminators and the heavy weapon drop guys.

[Ishagu]

Reivers have a role. It's the cheapest 10 wounds with a 3+ save you can deploy anywhere on the board from reserves. Won me plenty of games

[Panzer]

Reivers have a role. It's the cheapest 10 wounds with a 3+ save you can deploy anywhere on the board from reserves. Won me plenty of games

We're not talking about Reivers right now though. We're talking about the new Battleline unit with Reiver armour.

[Ishagu]

I imagine they'll be units that have some sort of concealed deployment, perhaps a mechanic like GSC. Or they have an unbuilt scout move.

 

They might even have Scout deployment as they could function as ambush troops.

 

Any of these would be pretty cool. Scout style deployment is the most likely. Anywhere not in enemy deployment zone perhaps.

[Panzer]

Honestly if they get a scout movement or infiltration as Troop unit I'm ready to replace most if not all of my Intercessors in my list with them. As BA I'd love to be able to get quicker to the enemy even if they aren't exactly a melee unit. :P

[Ishagu]

I can honestly see it happening. It fits the theme of military forward element.

 

Regular Reivers become mid game close support. Intercessors will be the cheapest and function as the troops you keep in your own deployment.

 

If they do infiltrate and have fancy guns or grenades they'll be quite a bit more costly, maybe 21/22 points per model. Or maybe they'll be cheap and complete game changer for Primaris and Marines in general.

[Lemondish]

I can honestly see it happening. It fits the theme of military forward element.

 

Regular Reivers become mid game close support. Intercessors will be the cheapest and function as the troops you keep in your own deployment.

 

If they do infiltrate and have fancy guns or grenades they'll be quite a bit more costly, maybe 21/22 points per model. Or maybe they'll be cheap and complete game changer for Primaris and Marines in general.

Seems super hopeful but not very likely. Would be great, though - I'm not convinced.

 

I'm leaning towards the scout move rules rather than deployment, a move which would apply to the transport carrying them - like the Vanguard move from Dominion Squads. Oh look, same name ;)

[Dracos]

I cant imagine them using the Scout move rules as that would allow a double pregame 9" move prior to Turn One with the Raven Guard Stratagem (that got "nerfed just a few months ago)? It seems unlikely I hope (but not impossible) they would disallow the Raven Guard to use their Stratagem with the new units.

[Dracos]

Aggressors could be made much more viable for melee if they got an extra attack. Gravis captains should really have the gravis ability to move, advance and shoot like aggressors. Rievers could be made a viable melee unit simply by giving their blades an AP mod.

^This^

 

Just some kind of   consistency would be nice when it comes to Boltstorm Gauntlets and Gravis Armor would be nice.

[Arkangilos]

They have a lot of antennas on them.

[HighMarshalAlex]

I really like most of the Primaris line, and these are pretty cool. I just wish that primaris had a little more personality fluff-wise. Right now they're really boring and feel very much like generic scifi soldiers. Still going to buy them though lol

[Panzer]

I really like most of the Primaris line, and these are pretty cool. I just wish that primaris had a little more personality fluff-wise. Right now they're really boring and feel very much like generic scifi soldiers. Still going to buy them though lol

 

That's probably because so far we only got the generic units and all the potential chapter specific units and other veterans would come at a later date. ;)

[Marshal Reinhard]

I wish this later day would come about sooner.

[Sete]

 

 

I really like most of the Primaris line, and these are pretty cool. I just wish that primaris had a little more personality fluff-wise. Right now they're really boring and feel very much like generic scifi soldiers. Still going to buy them though lol

That's probably because so far we only got the generic units and all the potential chapter specific units and other veterans would come at a later date. ;)

Before I die please.

[TheTrans]

I wonder why they opted for bright red facemask on top of a camo'd bloke.

The Primaris models are excellent sculpts, but the whole tacti-cool should of been left to the storm troopers.. who incidentally lost their tacti-cool look and went all gothic armour.. so go figure haha. 

 

I find just ignoring the primaris fluff is the way to go. The models ('basic ones, can't stand the specialist kit, outside of the whack reiver skull mask) are pretty solid. Probably woundn't hurt for them to lose all the picatinny that are all over everthing now.

 

At this point it looks like we have super solid 'for primaris' camp and the super solid 'against' gotcha, we know some like them, some don't.

So I look forward to more true scale fodder and ignoring the god awful do-all-cawl fluff :P. 

[Guest Triszin]

I can honestly see it happening. It fits the theme of military forward element.

 

Regular Reivers become mid game close support. Intercessors will be the cheapest and function as the troops you keep in your own deployment.

 

If they do infiltrate and have fancy guns or grenades they'll be quite a bit more costly, maybe 21/22 points per model. Or maybe they'll be cheap and complete game changer for Primaris and Marines in general.

I see it this way.

heavy speculation

 

Reivers: (that we have now) stay a Elite choice, due to their Utilities, Grapple/Grav chutes

 

Chem Reivers: Troops. They lack the deep strike/movement abilties the Elite versions have, instead they get Deepstrike BEacons/smoke grenades. there purpose is to be a cheap troop type, that allows better insertion of "deep strike" style units. Perhaps, they can bypass the "more than 9" away from enemy" rule.

 

while also being objective camp clearers, Toss a rad grenade in a building!

 

- this in turn would potentially heavily buff a lot of Marine units that are a little lack luster.

[GreyCrow]

Reivers are not a viable mêlée damage unit.

I play with 10 of them often and plan to field 25-30 in my 2000 pts full Primaris list.

 

They’re exactly like Assault Marines : infantry for objective play with decent deployment options.

50-60 Primaris wounds ganking a couple of backline objectives mid game are not a mass that is quick to shift.

 

Unless you deploy them in front of all the enemy guns. In that case, might as well find a new game to play.

 

Objective play is not as sexy as destroying something, and it’s not a playstyle favorited by many. It is fine.

 

On my side, I will relish my enemy’s face when he sees 500 points worth of Reivers coming where he doesn’t expect them. I will relish it even more when he will have to divert forces away from the frontline to deal with them.

 

—-

 

Back on topic :

 

Not particularly excited about the Vanguard info we have yet.

Models look cool, theme is cool, but I’m more interested by the tactical abilities of units. And so far, nothing to whet my appetite.

 

It seems like even more units for objective play and infantry superiority, and the Primaris roster is already well fleshed out for this.

[Shinespider]

I don't really get the Vanguard aversion.

It has always been extremely silly to me that Scouts, the chapter's newbies, look and act like spec-ops troops - but then both the aesthetics of that and in most cases the tactics are discarded once experience is gained. 

The idea that Scouts who excel at these tactics are put on a separate advancement path - one where they double-down on this stuff instead of abandoning it - makes a lot more sense than the present status quo. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

It really depends because they can fulfill several roles.