ONDIG Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Recently decided to try my hand at making a Fun CSM/Daemons aligned list starring Cypher and a small cell of the Fallen. Cypher ×3 Fallen Combiplas x5 Simple. What better allies for the Fallen than Alpha Legion! And then i discovered Lord Arkos .....Help! Did some searching but still cant wrap my head around The Faithless. Are they an Alpha Legion 'successor' chapter or are they a Renegade Chapter using those rules CT? As it stands i think i will run the Fallen as a Vanguard detachment, place Lord Arkos in command of An Alpha legion battalion (cultists,helbrutes) and then create a 3rd Faithless detachment of Terminators?Bikes? HELP! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354484-the-fallen-and-the-faithless/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 The generally accepted interpretation of Arkos is that you take FAITHLESS as your faction keyword and use the Alpha Legion Trait. There's a line in the callout box on Legion Traits in C:CSM that says that if your force is not from the Legions, or has "no other associated trait," then you use the Renegade Trait...which by implication means you can take any "associated" Legion Trait regardless of what your faction keyword actually is Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354484-the-fallen-and-the-faithless/#findComment-5274872 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gederas Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 The generally accepted interpretation of Arkos is that you take FAITHLESS as your faction keyword and use the Alpha Legion Trait. There's a line in the callout box on Legion Traits in C:CSM that says that if your force is not from the Legions, or has "no other associated trait," then you use the Renegade Trait...which by implication means you can take any "associated" Legion Trait regardless of what your faction keyword actually is Additionally, Arkos has ALPHA LEGION and THE FAITHLESS as keywords. The Faithless are a warband of Alpha Legion. Essentially, this means they use the Alpha Legion Legion trait and Warlord trait. Zhufor the Impaler is in the same boat, since he has SKULLTAKERS and WORLD EATERS keywords. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354484-the-fallen-and-the-faithless/#findComment-5275010 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONDIG Posted March 12, 2019 Author Share Posted March 12, 2019 Gotcha. So...If im understanding youse guys i could in theory give Cypher and the Fallen any legion trait? Also could i make a Faithless unit w a trait other than Alfa Legion? Arkos buff would seem most beneficial on a Squad w the Renegade trait w the bonus to advance and charge(Bikes mayhaps?) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354484-the-fallen-and-the-faithless/#findComment-5275134 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 1. No, because there's a note in the codex that specifically says Fallen can never benefit from a Legion Trait 2. Yes. Renegades is especially useful with Arkos' +1 to run & charge bubble. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354484-the-fallen-and-the-faithless/#findComment-5275151 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doom Herald Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 I've generally been told that FAITHLESS count as Renegades since they are not actually ALPHA LEGION in place of <LEGION>. Most commonly and consistently, I hear of second hand accounts of someone asking and getting an e-mail from forgeworld saying to use Renegade traits. Personally, I wonder what happens if you put him in his own auxiliary detachment if you do in fact treat FAITHLESS as Renegades. Errata says he has both FAITHLESS and ALPHA LEGION, so would he get both the -1 to be hit and advance & charge? Unless I'm mistaken, I don't believe it's ever been explicitly stated that FAITHLESS is a fill-in for <LEGION> and unless it has been, RAW right now makes it pointless to replace <LEGION> with FAITHLESS anyway. The whole way rules about <LEGION> is written says that except for specified cases, changing <LEGION> to a pre-existing keyword does not make the <LEGION> stand-in identical to the pre-existing keyword (IE: changing <LEGION> to ULTRAMARINES does not make your CSM eligible for ULTRAMARINE rules). Maybe with the new vigilus adding more warband rules, we can get an answer. 8th edition has been a rules nightmare for chaos and forgeworld isn't doing so great with addressing things on their end. EDIT: Don't get me wrong, it's obvious that it was meant as a <LEGION> fill-in, RAI is almost certain to be in-line with that. But, 8th has a lot of disconnect between RAW and RAI, and forgeworld, especially, is probably more occupied with making models than clarifying niche rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354484-the-fallen-and-the-faithless/#findComment-5278336 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 nvm Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354484-the-fallen-and-the-faithless/#findComment-5278407 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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