Marshal Rohr Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 I might read this after the spoilers. Night Lords are always weird to me, so if this develops them more it’ll be worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 I might read this after the spoilers. Night Lords are always weird to me, so if this develops them more it’ll be worth it. I'd definitely recommend it. The story is basically Curze trying to justify his actions to both the Emperor and also to himself. He simultaneously hates what he is, while reveling in it. He lies about it ("I don't enjoy what I must do to you"), while also arguing that he's only what the Emperor made him to be, so really it's the Emperor who's lying, not him, but what if the only reason he thinks what he did is necessary is because he IS broken? What if he were more like his polar-opposite Sanguinius and grew up on Baal instead of Nostramo, would that make them "swap", or would be still be the same creature, and you made me like this, father! Kenzaburo 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 Ironically, sang also believes in absolute fate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanctimonius Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 I finally got it and just finished it last night. I was worried when I saw that Haley was the writer - for me, he can be a bit hit and miss, though I really enjoyed Hammer of Olympia.But this was excellent. There were small flashes of the majesty of Curze, but he did an excellent job of showing his degeneration and the madness that ruled him. Also liked that all the big names cropped up here and there, and the structure of the book, jumping around in time, worked very well, showing the lunacy of Curze and his fractured thoughts. Hidden Content Interesting that of all the characters, Sevatar was specifically shown as having a clouded future (might have been a hint for Curze that his own views on fate were wrong, there...). Is that simply Haley doesn't know what the plans are for him and doesn't want to commit himself? Or are fan theories correct about Sev being more important than even he knows? I'm curious if we know anything more about the book Curze wrote, The Dark - does it appear again? Is it just insane ramblings, do any of the kids care about it? I really liked that he danced around the big events, giving more depth and context to them, without feeling like he had to rehash them. Dorn's intervention/strangulation, Corax and co, the purging of Nostramo, the first influxes of criminals into the legion. In all, excellent book. Probably my favourite Primarch book so far. DarkChaplain 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 From what I can tell, he tossed the book into an easy to overlook spot, right in front of his trapped room. So after that was immolated and the rest of his stuff was stolen, I don't think there was a lot of reason for them to hang around there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 all of the GK grand masters were revealed in Buried Dagger, so Sev being a GK is officially dead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 all of the GK grand masters were revealed in Buried Dagger, so Sev being a GK is officially dead in addition though, no one knows where he is, so he could also not be dead Sanctimonius and DarkChaplain 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 all of the GK grand masters were revealed in Buried Dagger, so Sev being a GK is officially dead in addition though, no one knows where he is, so he could also not be dead And while I personally don't care for the fan theory, there are multiple ways in which Sev could still be among the Grey Knights grandmasters, as the candidate's identity is never outright stated, only alluded to, and Sev's fate is completely unknown beyond his imprisoned status. We don't know where, if he was taken along the ride through the Ruinstorm, nor with which Legion he was. If he was with the Blood Angels by the end, he could've reached Terra well before The Buried Dagger's climax and had more than a few sessions with Malcador, fixing his mental degradation and putting him into service against daemons. I've elaborated on the loopholes before elsewhere, but right now, until we actually see him again, GW and BL could still go for it one way or another. His fate is just as much in shadow for us as it is for Curze. We had rumors about Sevatar dying on Terra, as well, among his own Legion - which can't be the case if he was still locked up in Ultramar, for example, and we know he isn't with Skraivok either. IF he ends up on Terra, during the Siege, it'd have been through the Blood Angels or similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 I only listened to Buried Dagger once, I just remember the scene. I thought they named them all and they were unknowns from the KE. (They might not be unknowns I just might not know them having not kept up with the Garro plotline) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 About Sev's fate, DB said that he had planned it all out with Bligh...so Guy either isn't privy to the details or he is, and he just wants to be ambiguous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 (edited) About Sev's fate, DB said that he had planned it all out with Bligh...so Guy either isn't privy to the details or he is, and he just wants to be ambiguous This. I dare to assume that if someone's going to continue with Sev, it's Aaron. I don't think that he'd hand Sev's fate and thus, his work/ memorie of a good friend over to someone else. Edited May 26, 2019 by Kelborn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbero666 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 (edited) I just read again The Long Night and there's something that made me think about Sevatar's future. The last part says: "When he dreams now it is not of the dead, but of the endless night between worlds. The deepest void, where a thousand threats drift, away from the light of loyal suns. The domains of aliens and monsters forced into exile by the Great Crusade, still crying out to be extinguished once and for all. The true threats to mankind." Then, in Curze's novel there's this: "Curze nodded, though in his heart he knew this was not true, and that Sevatar's fate would bring him much pain before he found equilibrium again. Through loyalty he would follow Curze a long way down a dark path before he found his way back" And also this: Curze to Sevatar"I can tell you how you die, if you wish", said Curze softly, grave as a corpse-choked battlefield from whence all the glory has fled. "Do you want to know? It is far, far away from here, in the endless dark" So maybe Sevatar ends up on a redemption crusade against the xenos on the borders of the Imperium? That makes me think of Carcharodons but we know they are Raven Guard now. Maybe he starts a proto-Deathwatch that evolves into the one we know? After this novel I can't wait for ADB to continue his story. Edited June 4, 2019 by Cerbero666 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 This does sound like Charcharodons or Ashen Claws or yet another Nomad Predation fleet out there. Though I love Sev, I'm not sure If I want to know about his whereabouts. And if, then only in Aarons hands, please. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 I just read again The Long Night and there's something that made me think about Sevatar's future. The last part says: "When he dreams now it is not of the dead, but of the endless night between worlds. The deepest void, where a thousand threats drift, away from the light of loyal suns. The domains of aliens and monsters forced into exile by the Great Crusade, still crying out to be extinguished once and for all. The true threats to mankind." Then, in Curze's novel there's this: "Curze nodded, though in his heart he knew this was not true, and that Sevatar's fate would bring him much pain before he found equilibrium again. Through loyalty he would follow Curze a long way down a dark path before he found his way back" And also this: Curze to Sevatar "I can tell you how you die, if you wish", said Curze softly, grave as a corpse-choked battlefield from whence all the glory has fled. "Do you want to know? It is far, far away from here, in the endless dark" So maybe Sevatar ends up on a redemption crusade against the xenos on the borders of the Imperium? That makes me think of Carcharodons but we know they are Raven Guard now. Maybe he starts a proto-Deathwatch that evolves into the one we know? After this novel I can't wait for ADB to continue his story. Well, it's not guaranteed that they are Raven Guard, given their... shall we say "tempestuous" relationship with the Ashen Claws, which was the primary assumption people used to say they were Raven Guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 Yea, outer dark threw a wrench into saying the carcharodons are guaranteed raven guard descent. It's a cool theory that sev could be the Forgotten One. That being said, it clashes with one of Curzes premonition about sevetar keeping the spirit of the legion alive; the carcharodons care nothing for justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ncarnadine Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 If someone doesn't bust Sev out of 1st Legion prison, he's going to end up at Caliban Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanctimonius Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 If someone doesn't bust Sev out of 1st Legion prison, he's going to end up at Caliban Sevatar = Cypher confirmed. He just keeps that sword sheathed to give everyone else a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ncarnadine Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 hahah yeah that would be crazy ....wait a sec Sanctimonius, Kelborn, Lord_Caerolion and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 I would find a mind-wiped/psychically reconstructed Sevatar serving as a GK more plausible than a "redeemed" Sevatar voluntarily doing penance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ncarnadine Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 (edited) It does sound like he's heading for a redemption arc, though edit: here's that one reddit AMA answer regarding Sevatar for easy reference "righteousness," not "redemption" Edited June 5, 2019 by LetsYouDown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 I would find a mind-wiped/psychically reconstructed Sevatar serving as a GK more plausible than a "redeemed" Sevatar voluntarily doing penance He's not going to do penance, because he hasn't done anything wrong in his mind. Realigning his outlook can produce a "loyalist" sevatar while still keeping him and his motivations the same. DarkChaplain 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Yeah...he might do some realignment and become a "loyalist" in the sense many renegades think they're loyalist, but I feel the Imperium would still prefer him dead unless he's mind-wiped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aa.logan Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Sorry to change the subject somewhat, but I just remembered one of my favourite things about this book- how eloquently and convincingly Curze puts across the argument that the Legion’s terror tactics are more *humane* than the other legions; in terms of intent at least, the way that he sees himself is mighty interesting... mc warhammer 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 I mean, is there really an apology needed for changing the subject back to the actual book rather than more Sevatar fan theories? Can't believe the regular release is still so far off. I haven't gotten around to Angron yet (needed a break after TSW and all) but as good as it is reputed to be already, it's Curze I'm really excited about. Especially since it appears Haley has pulled it off gloriously yet again. Once again an engaging and complex look at a Primarch, examining him from various angles? Yes, please. Morovir and mc warhammer 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc warhammer Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 ^ seconded. this and corax are actually ahead of the siege book 1 on my pull list Apothecary Vaddon 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now