Konrad Curze: The Night Haunter

[Red_Shift]

I finished it yesterday and I agree with you guys it's a top tier primarch book.

 

It's shown throughout the book that Curze chose his path and enjoyed his 'work'. His descent into madness is illustrated well, and although the narrative jumps back and forth in time I didn't find it jarring.

 

If Curze saw different versions of the future and always chose to believe the darker I wonder if he was in some way responsible for pushing the future towards the heresy. He's clearly an unreliable narrator and at one point despite his visions he's not sure who ultimately won the heresy.

[DarKnight]

In Savage Weapons, I don't think his claws are described in sufficient detail to let us know their design.

From Savage Weapons by Aaron Dembski-Bowden

"Corswain swallowed his awe at what stood before him. A cadaverous god in midnight clad, each armored finger ending in a charged blade the length of a scythe."

[Apothecary Vaddon]

Could be as long as Mortarions scythe, a regular farm hand scythe, a DG terminator scythe, a Scythe of the Emperors scythe, etc etc etc

[Lord_Caerolion]

Usually if something is left without further description, we can assume it's meaning the generic term, so in this case a farm scythe. If you described something as person-sized, you'd assume roughly average human height, not the Guinness World Record holder for tallest person, or the Emperor/a Primarch. Something being "sword-length" will never mean the blade of an Eldar Phantom Titan, for example.

[Indefragable]

There’s a certain poetry to good writing as well. If someone wanted you to know that a character was dressed like the Grim Reaper, they could say that they wore a black full length robe and cowl that covered their face and carried a full length scythe, and produced a receipt for their purchase of “1x iconic Grim Reaper costume.”

 

Now, on the other hand, they could say that a person’s features were hidden by a dark hood and they carried a massive curved blade and the feeling of the observer was that they were standing before the Grim Reaper made manifest.

 

While ADB’s description specifically mentions the finger-blades, I for one, don’t get too caught up on it because there is meant to be a sense of awe/wonder/dread experienced by the character relaying this information. As such, it’s about the overall effect Curze’s presence has on even an Astartes. Symbolically, the scythe-like blades are the fingers of justice reaching out to grasp the wicked. The exact positioning on the gauntlet is less important.

 

Ok, ok, I too like the idea of Curze’s lightning claws actually being on the finger tips rather than the power fist style ones.

[b1soul]

@ DarKnight

 

I am wondering how Curze didn't mangle the Lion's neck when he throttled him

[bluntblade]

I always wondered about that too, but I'm willing to let it slide because I like the story.

[1ncarnadine]

@ DarKnight

 

I am wondering how Curze didn't mangle the Lion's neck when he throttled him

 

Presumably he can see how the Lion dies, right? So he's throwing himself into the fight convinced that 1) he won't die and 2) he isn't killing the Lion, either. So you could argue that he's not taking the fight seriously on some level.

 

 

re: the claws, does anything stop Kurze from possessing more than one set of lightning claws...?

Edited September 14, 2019 by LetsYouDown

[bluntblade]

It would only make sense for him to have multiple sets.

[Izlude]

Also just finished this one, top 3 in this series for sure. In general I really like how Curze has been depicted via the series and has been consistent compared to other Primarchs. ADB perhaps has done him the most justice and we know much about Curze in terms of his beginning and his end in various books so I love how Haley works around these big events without rehashing them which is one of the strengths of this book. 

 

In general the Nightlords are so despicable it is hard not to like them although they sometime come across as cartoony. I think the end with his conversation with the Big E was profound and sort of the nail on the coffin. The thing I love about this scene is that it could easily have been the voice in his head vs the actual Big E...it is so ambiguous I love it.

 

As a general question, we all know Curze meets his end by a Callidus assassin. My guess is that he let himself be killed...it's not like he couldn't take her out if he wanted to correct? 

Edited September 20, 2019 by Izlude

[Gederas]

Also just finished this one, top 3 in this series for sure. In general I really like how Curze has been depicted via the series and has been consistent compared to other Primarchs. ADB perhaps has done him the most justice and I we know alot about Curze in terms of his beginning and his end in various books so I love how Haley works around these big events without rehashing them which is one of the strengths of this book. 

 

In general the Nightlords are so despicable it is hard not to like them although they sometime come across as cartoony. I think the end with his conversation with the Big E was profound and sort of the nail on the coffin. The thing I love about this scene is that it could easily have been the voice in his head vs the actual Big E...it is so ambiguous I love it.

 

As a general question, we all know Curze meets his end by a Callidus assassin. My guess is that he let himself be killed...it's not like he couldn't take her out if he wanted to correct? 

I'm about a quarter of the way through it. Definitely enjoying the read.

 

And yes, Curze definitely let himself be killed. Remember: Baby Angron KILLED AN ENTIRE GROUP OF ELDAR ASSASSINS. So Curze, even in his madness/lowest point, should have been able to paste the walls with M'shen. Remember what his final words have always been listed as:

 

"Your presence does not surprise me, Assassin. I have known of you ever since your craft entered the Eastern Fringes. Why did I not have you killed? Because your mission and the act you are about to commit proves the truth of all I have ever said or done. I merely punished those who had wronged, just as your false Emperor now seeks to punish me. Death is nothing compared to vindication."

So... yeah. He let her kill him.

Edited September 20, 2019 by Gederas

[Kelborn]

He comitted "suicide" to proof his statement.

 

Curze's always been one of my fav Primarchs and this novel is outstanding thus far. About a halfway through and I can't lay it down. Already top 3 for me, with the potential to be my new no 1. ;)

[b1soul]

Russ thought Curze's madness lent him strength

[Tymell]

I finally got round to this one myself, and I'll echo what a lot of others have said: great book, really solid addition to the series.

 

Almost the entire time I read this I had a subtitle for the book in my head: The Life and Times of Mad King Curze. Being anchored around a post-Heresy "present" where we see him speaking with a flesh sculpture in the image of his father, basically monologuing on his life with lots of flashbacks, all of it showing just how deranged he now is; it all had that feeling of a classic mad king ranting and raving to himself. This particular framework for the story also stood out as something fresh within the Primarchs sub-series, looking at important moments of his life rather than a single big event. In this regard it reminded me somewhat of Jaghatai Khan's book, but much less linear, as befits Curze's damaged psyche and wandering attention. And it feels fitting that a character so defined by the notion of a predetermined fate should have a book set at the point of his death.

 

The whole book works as a study of Curze's character: who he is, why he is that way, how he's changed over time. Certainly we do see some progression (or rather, degeneration) of Curze: in the earlier parts, especially pre-destruction of Nostramo, he still employs the horrific terror tactics his legion is known for, but regularly grounds it in talk of enforcing justice and order. Of course, that's pretty much all it is: talk, as the book makes it very clear that Curze is lying, even to himself, when he talks about nobler purposes. Even in his early days on Nostramo, he enjoys the cruelty and brutality of what he does, while telling himself it's for a greater purpose.

 

Curze is a self-deluded hypocrite using his notions of predeterminism as an excuse for his actions (if everything really -is- predetermined, how can he insist he isn't to blame for anything, while in the same breath condemning his father, sons and brothers for their actions?), yet I think it's a sign of the quality of the writing that he's still such a compelling character to read about. I know he's lying and deluding himself, I don't agree with what he's saying (and I certainly wouldn't like him as a person for real), yet it's still fun to read about him, even when he's just sitting in a room ranting. He inspires empathy even if not outright sympathy. He's sufficiently well-written than you don't have to like him or agree with him, it's engaging just to see his personality in all its twisted lunacy, and it never feels like shallow "let's show how craaaaazy he is for the sake of it!" writing.

 

Likewise, there are certainly some gory parts, but for me they never felt exploitative. Instead they just added to the consistent atmosphere of horror and darkness.

 

And despite all of this negativity, there are -glimpses- of something nobler buried deep under the surface, at least early on. At one point he seems disturbed by the thought that he killed a genuine innocent, another time he seems to feel a sense of loss when he thinks of Sanguinius being dead. His idea of enforcing order with fewer casualties through terror tactics may not be -entirely- without merit (at least in the context of the brutality of the setting), but there's a dark sadism at the heart of it, even from the very start.

 

The book isn't a truly new take on the character, and I don't mean that as a criticism, because it doesn't need to be. Good work has been done with Curze already, and there's no need to reinvent him for the sake of it. It just reinforces my view that Haley's biggest strength in this setting is his ability to turn his hand to just about anything and make it work, including characters that have had well-developed work done on them by other authors previously. The book never shies away from the fact that Curze is a monster, and even if his monstrous nature isn't as forced upon him as he would like to believe, it's still a great examination of why he is that way. For me, this one's up there with the best of the series.

 

9/10

[b1soul]

Yes, Curze holds himself blameless but doesn't apply the same excuses to others.

 

He's a pitiable and despicable and frightening character all at once.

[Lord_Caerolion]

I think it's less that he blames them, but that he can't understand why they don't see things as he does. Basically, he's calling them sheeple.

[MegaVolt87]

Yes, Curze holds himself blameless but doesn't apply the same excuses to others.

 

He's a pitiable and despicable and frightening character all at once.

 

He has a lot of double standards, do as I say not as I do etc. When he gets called out or someone has a good counter argument/ disagrees he loses it. His interactions with Dorn overall and that poor navigator who gets stuck with him on the cargo ship are good examples of that. Thats the great thing about Haunter though, he is up there with the most cooked/ head case primarchs. 

[Lord_Caerolion]

 

Yes, Curze holds himself blameless but doesn't apply the same excuses to others.

 

He's a pitiable and despicable and frightening character all at once.

 

He has a lot of double standards, do as I say not as I do etc. When he gets called out or someone has a good counter argument/ disagrees he loses it. His interactions with Dorn overall and that poor navigator who gets stuck with him on the cargo ship are good examples of that. Thats the great thing about Haunter though, he is up there with the most cooked/ head case primarchs. 

 

 

And mostly does it (with the exception of Abnett's portrayal of him in Unremembered Empire) without going Stupid Evil and twirling his trademark-villain moustache, or becoming a Fish-Malk style crazy.

Basically, even at his worst, there's a logic to what he's doing, not just "lul he's eeeevil and/or cuh-razee!"

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

 

Yes, Curze holds himself blameless but doesn't apply the same excuses to others.

 

He's a pitiable and despicable and frightening character all at once.

He has a lot of double standards, do as I say not as I do etc. When he gets called out or someone has a good counter argument/ disagrees he loses it. His interactions with Dorn overall and that poor navigator who gets stuck with him on the cargo ship are good examples of that. Thats the great thing about Haunter though, he is up there with the most cooked/ head case primarchs.

That being said, during the Crusade there's a few times when other primarchs complain about his methods, but suddenly have nothing to say when he pulls out the numbers on compliance rate and casualties.

 

It's not like say, alpharius doing his insurgent thing and then dorn optimizing his strategy.

[MegaVolt87]

 

 

Yes, Curze holds himself blameless but doesn't apply the same excuses to others.

 

He's a pitiable and despicable and frightening character all at once.

He has a lot of double standards, do as I say not as I do etc. When he gets called out or someone has a good counter argument/ disagrees he loses it. His interactions with Dorn overall and that poor navigator who gets stuck with him on the cargo ship are good examples of that. Thats the great thing about Haunter though, he is up there with the most cooked/ head case primarchs.

That being said, during the Crusade there's a few times when other primarchs complain about his methods, but suddenly have nothing to say when he pulls out the numbers on compliance rate and casualties.

 

It's not like say, alpharius doing his insurgent thing and then dorn optimizing his strategy.

 

 

Except there is a difference between co-opting a strategy and committing to it, than condemning one and ordering it immediately stopped under threat of violence though. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

What I meant, is that they throw a lot of flak at curze for his methods of achieving compliance, but ultimately have no valid arguments

[Manchu warlord]

Great book, probably my second favorite of the Primarchs novel series; second only to Perturabo's.  

 

I think Guy Haley portrayed Konrad Curze very well, and especially how mortal-humans view him and react when he is around.

 

My only complaint, was that it wasn't dark enough.  I was literally expecting to read scenes where Konrad Curze was eating humans while they were alive and screaming - as the Primarch bit a mouthful of meat from the man's (or women's) chest... blood splattered everywhere as he chewed the it....  that sort of thing.  

 

Once again, great book, enjoyed it greatly.  I wouldn't mind if Guy Haley wrote all the Primarchs books.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Curze is insane, but he's not quite "act like a werewolf and devour the living" insane.

 

What he did do was

make a literal meat sculpture, supposedly of the Emperor, but from every description we get it's incredibly inhuman, with more than 4 limbs, etc. He's literally chewing and gnawing the raw flesh harvested from slaves he butchered to sculpt over their repurposed bones. He also went so far as to crucify the rats on the ship he was rescued by.

[bluntblade]

What I meant, is that they throw a lot of flak at curze for his methods of achieving compliance, but ultimately have no valid arguments

I'd be interested to see how many of those worlds remained stable and productive, as the methods of the Fists, Ultras, Luna Wolves etc were geared towards quickly bringing a world to compliance in a way that could be sustained easily.

 

The one example we have to hand for Curze's methods lasting... (gestures to debris field where Nostromo used to be, and then nods to Sevatar making this point to his own Primarch).

[MegaVolt87]

 

What I meant, is that they throw a lot of flak at curze for his methods of achieving compliance, but ultimately have no valid arguments

I'd be interested to see how many of those worlds remained stable and productive, as the methods of the Fists, Ultras, Luna Wolves etc were geared towards quickly bringing a world to compliance in a way that could be sustained easily.

 

The one example we have to hand for Curze's methods lasting... (gestures to debris field where Nostromo used to be, and then nods to Sevatar making this point to his own Primarch).

 

 

Hard disagree, Nostromo went to crap early on after he left and he knew it with the first batches of recruits. He had his head in the sand or thought he could teach them, which also failed as the majority of the legion didn't get the deeper reasoning behind it's brutality. He gave up, then when it got worse it was easier for him to just wreck the place out of frustration, shame, anger + disappointment, much like Perty on Olympia. If it was going to work at all, he should have been leaving garrisons behind with creepy forts instead of the IW's doing that instead. Legionaries who just blow stuff up are less intimidating to mortals than psycho's skulking around wearing your family as capes- just saying.