Konrad Curze: The Night Haunter

[SkimaskMohawk]

Sorry to change the subject somewhat, but I just remembered one of my favourite things about this book- how eloquently and convincingly Curze puts across the argument that the Legion’s terror tactics are more *humane* than the other legions; in terms of intent at least, the way that he sees himself is mighty interesting...

Yea, I really enjoyed sane curze and the earlier generation of nostramans' view. "Terror is the friend of compliance"

[MarineRaider]

I just finished it.

 

What I found interesting was his conversations with his father. The power the E must have to cross the galaxy as he does for those moments is staggering. Lastly, when he tells Curze he forgives him as he was made as intended it pretty much sums up the entire Primarch experiment. Lastly, the E tells him no one really ever dies, it is just transforming to another plane.

 

At some point, they will all come back. Sometime down the road when BL is in need of a cash infusion, a epic Necron invasion or the such and the E summons loyal and traitor son back to him.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Or he was hallucinating

[Lord_Caerolion]

Yep, with how unravelled his mental state was, I don't think we can exactly trust his perceptions at that point.

[1ncarnadine]

Especially with how incisive some of the conversations he had already had with himself were. I think he demonstrates that capacity especially well when he's comparing and contrasting himself with Corax.

[MarineRaider]

I would normally agree with all of you, however in the start of the book he was having an imaginary conversation and the "Him" is not capitalized. There are a couple of other nuanced changes as well. But the E behaves, speaks and references things that there is no way Curze would be able to imagine even with his ability to see the future. Mainly the fact the E directly states that Curze has no idea what he is suffering or the pain etc ...how could Curze far removed from the Golden Throne even understand what the E is experiencing. Also why would he be left wanting more conversation at the end if he is imagining it? I know later in the book it directly says he may or may not have had the conversation. I don't like that we had the standard Capitalization and + being used for E speak in that ONE instance and then are left to wonder is it real or memorex.

 

I want to believe it was the E. That while it has been stated that until he spoke to RG in 40k he has been silent I do not believe it. I think he continues to speak to those he wishes. I think he told Russ to head somewhere as well as Corax and Valdor. I think he speaks to the lost Primarchs and is shuffling pieces on his big board.

[Lord_Caerolion]

... because he's psychic, insane and has hallucinations. That's like asking why a paranoid schizophrenic has irrational beliefs that leave them terrified, because these hallucinations aren't under his control. He can want his imagined conversation to continue as much as he wants, doesn't mean it's going to happen.

The whole point of the book is that it's clouding the judgement of Curze, whether he was doing what was necessary, or whether he really was broken and evil. To have a definitive "yeah, the Emperor totes forgave him, it's cool" kinda goes against that.

 

Also, as an aside, you might want to put that initial post in spoiler tags.

[Kelborn]

Agreed.

The novel is not out yet for everyone. Spoiler tags are still a thing until then at least. ;)

[JimVandy85]

So I've searched Black Library every which way but loose and cannot find this novel. Does anyone have a direct link to it?

 

Thanks and Best Wishes

[Felix Antipodes]

It has only been released in a LE version so far, and nowadays BL removes a books link once it's sold out. It comes up for HB (& ebook?) in August.

[Knockagh]

Just read this..... it’s pretty distasteful but I suppose that’s Cruze. Can’t say I enjoyed it as such. It’s certainly well written and shows the guys total insanity and failings. It’s a good book, just a little too dark for me. Not sure it could have been a successful book on him without it being like that though so im not complaining and would definitely rather have this than a battle book. Glad it’s a novella.

Im convinced he is psychic and convinced that’s the big E in the final chapter giving him a lecture. Seems pretty clear.

Another great addition to the primarchs series. I feel like I need a shower though!

[Marshal Rohr]

Just read this..... it’s pretty distasteful but I suppose that’s Cruze. Can’t say I enjoyed it as such. It’s certainly well written and shows the guys total insanity and failings. It’s a good book, just a little too dark for me. Not sure it could have been a successful book on him without it being like that though so im not complaining and would definitely rather have this than a battle book. Glad it’s a novella.

Im convinced he is psychic and convinced that’s the big E in the final chapter giving him a lecture. Seems pretty clear.

Another great addition to the primarchs series. I feel like I need a shower though!

 

Kurze is psychic. Its one of his defining characteristics. 

[The_son_of_Dorn]

I've always wanted to believe that Kurze was a "Necessary" evil who never found peace with his intended purpose, hence sending himself insane. His actions contributed massively to diverting the Lion and Robby, and even Sanguinius so they would at some point all end up together. Despite the all out hostility of his legion and what they were capable of, I never really felt like the NL's dialed it up past 6 out of 10 on the offensive actions list. (Apart form the occasional genocide)

 

Kurze was clearly broken and deranged, but was that as it was meant to be? Plagued by visions and a misplaced sense of Honor what could he ever of hoped to achieve. I think the Emperor stepping in at the end truly is the Big E, which although at the time may of been some comfort ultimately derives Kuze to feel used, despite all his actions counter to the contrary.

[Apothecary Vaddon]

It's a great Total Recall esque situation. Was he hallucinating, or was it real? Points to be made on both sides. Just a small part of why the novella was so damn incredible.

[Angel_of_Blood]

Just had my limited edition arrive, and damn is it beautiful. Lastly, after being what I'm going to assume is one of the last people to have ordered it, I still somehow managed to get copy 23.

 

The number is utterly random and not at all based on how soon or late you order. I ordered one of the last 50 copies or so of The Carrion Throne and got copy number 1.

[Marshal Loss]

Perhaps the greatest quote in HH fiction:

 

 

 

The duct rounded a corner, whereupon Elver came to an angry, swearing stop.
A few centimetres from his nose, the duct had been crushed up into nothing by an impact from below. Elver squinted at it a moment, seeing a familiar pattern in the metal but not quite recognising it, until the detail leapt out at him. Impressed into the sheet steel was a human face, mouth open in a scream.
'Balls,' said Elver.

[Roomsky]

I enjoyed this well enough.

 

I do think that simply as a reading experience, it's one of Haley's best. Unlike Perturabo, it's quite even in quality, and packs more of an emotional punch than Corax (though Corax needed a decent book far more than Curze does, so it's still my fave). The pacing is quick and no scene overstays it's welcome. Haley is moving nicely from "no style" back into his old quality, without any apparent drop in his release schedule, so I suppose that's nice. There are a lot of really well executed scenes here as well, and perhaps most impressively, Haley ducks and weaves through scenes we've already had in other stories, and never once does it feel like it. Every scene feels important, and the reader is never left with the feeling that an even bigger set piece was only just around the corner.

 

My issue is probably a completely unfair one; but you can't read Spurrier and Aaron and then tell me this is on the same level. Curze under their pens had such a fine subtlety to him, he was mad and pathetic yes, but never once did I feel he didn't possess the nobility and charisma the Emperor breeds into all his sons. With them, I always believed Curze had once been a misguided but mighty figure, a warped hero of myth. Here Curze is just a madman, I do feel pity that his self-fulfilling prophecies put his head in such a dark place, but he seemed destined for failure from the very beginning, not from some unfortunate future-sight, but because he was always that way. And I can't find that anywhere near as compelling. Certainly, Haley does madman Curze better than everyone else, he does backflips over Thorpe, Kyme, Annandale, even Abnett, and I did like that the humans who encountered him still felt he was paradoxically beautiful. I just can't help but feel Curze was done a disservice by a large role in the Heresy series. For all his screen time and "development," nothing but Prince of Crows can hold a candle to Soul Hunter or Lord of the Night, and he's dead in those works.

 

My bias keeps me from even assigning an arbitrary numerical rating to this one. I do think it's a good book even if it doesn't quite reach what I'd hoped, and if you have even a passing tolerance for Curze in the Heresy series you should definitely check it out. I'll probably still collect it if it ever drops in softback, especially for answering certain questions in the wake of Ruinstorm.

[b1soul]

"My issue is probably a completely unfair one; but you can't read Spurrier and Aaron and then tell me this is on the same level."

 

Curze here is farther along the path of insanity than he is in Savage Weapons and Prince of Crows. He's off his rocker. He also has spikes of insanity. Sometimes he's more lucid.

[Roomsky]

"My issue is probably a completely unfair one; but you can't read Spurrier and Aaron and then tell me this is on the same level."

 

Curze here is farther along the path of insanity than he is in Savage Weapons and Prince of Crows. He's off his rocker. He also has spikes of insanity. Sometimes he's more lucid.

 

I disagree, Soul Hunter and Lord of the Night both have vignettes of Curze on the day of his death. This book has vignettes of Curze before the Emperor ever lands on Nostramo. The former communicated someone brought low by insanity. This communicates someone who was always a monster, he just used to be better at managing it, and I think there's a big distinction there.

[b1soul]

Curze always was a monster to some degree.

[aa.logan]

Curze always was a monster to some degree.

Aren’t all the Primarchs?

 

In fact, isn’t that his argument?

[b1soul]

I think there's a difference between Guilliman's monster and Curze's

[SkimaskMohawk]

I feel like self choice is the name of the game. Curze was always sadistic, but we can see that he chose to follow his code during the crusade, up until he chose to the follow his fate as shown in the visions.

[aa.logan]

I think there's a difference between Guilliman's monster and Curze's

Tell that to the dead of their compliances...

[bluntblade]

I think the dead know it pretty well, at least in Kurze's case. In Guilliman's they were on the receiving end of chainswords and bolt-shells admittedly, but if the Night Lords get you then you'll be in a skinning pit and your lifespan is "until the screaming stops".