BSB Speculation

[taikishi]

This release should have been pushed back to 2020, when the vast majority of units were ready, and the BSB should have been pushed back along with it.

 

Making people wait, especially those new to the army, 3-6 months to receive the bulk of the army's units is asinine. The box set isn't even a playable patrol detachment because it's so disjointed with poor options for every unit. S3 power swords? Stormbolter / flamer? Minimum sized Arco-flagellents and near-minimum Repentia with no transports? I'd almost the box set have cut the Repentia, Arco-flagellents and Penitent Engine for a Retributor squad or even a Celestians squad. Even if it was another stormbolter/flamer Celestian squad or a (heaven forbid) heavy flamer/multi-melta Retributor squad, the force would have some cohesion despite still not being very good.

[Banjulhu]

The boxset is pretty much just to make good on the Adepticon 2018 video saying "Emperor Willing 2019".

Sadly it appears the Big Guy was not totally behind the idea in the end.

[Slasher956]

You know if they released the normal codex & the card pack at the same time as the army box plus a 'patrol formation box' of (for example) two BSSquads, full seraphim, full repentia mistress & canoness

 

I dont think there would be half the negativity... I mean lets see

 

The old gamers who just want the rules will be happy

the gamers who want a little of everything / a special ed 'dex will be happy

new gamers who want the codex and a army that looks like it could work along side other imperium forces 

 

& you have a standalone box that people can buy repeat copies of...

[Ficinus]

The fact that I will have to wait, like, 3-4 months after the box set drops to even get a codex for my existing army is absurd.

[taikishi]

I really don't want OR need anything in the box set, and you've already seen me rail about the set in general...

 

... but I might pick it up to help out a friend's store that just got into GW. Especially after an employee at the other LGS started badmouthing said friend's store in front of me while talking to his friends a few weeks ago. Just have to decide what's more important, swallowing my hate and anger at GW to help a friend or proving a point to GW by not purchasing it.

Edited October 29, 2019 by taikishi

[ERJAK]

I don't hate GW and I'm still happy about getting new models, I hate metal and I've liked every model except the canoness as much or more than the old ones (the seraphim are particularly lovely and I'm in the rare group that likes these repentia MUCH more than the old ones)

 

Most of my irritation comes from a couple particular things.

 

1. Knowing that actual new units are incredibly unlikely. I was so hoping for more variety to make list building more interesting and to fill gaps in the roster.

 

2. Knowing the codex will be mediocre (and probably lazy). The beta codex was trash to its core, to the point where I haven't played 40k since march. Using it as a basis for the new book is unlikely to produce anything worth getting excited about.

 

3. The BSBs being dragged out and not touching on anything of significant interest or surprise. They discussed rules once and have so far completely bypassed talking about the units I'm most interested in (exorcist, immo, dominions, celestians) in favor of units that I either don't care about or knew were never going to change (rhino, repentia, battle sisters, don'tknowhowtousethecensoredemojionmobile-ing Cherubs.)

 

4. Waiting.

[taikishi]

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[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

210 USD, or so I hear. Consider how much stuff I could get for my other armies for that sort of money (or indeed, how many new armies I could start, and get a decent header on), I am unlikely to even bother. "Oh, but the units inside would cost that much if bought on their own!" Ah, so no real saving then? And I just have to wait a few months and then I can buy them all anyway, without having to buy the data cards (thus actually saving)?

 

Yeah, the Warp can take that box for all I care.

 

Overheard the owner of the FLGS talking to the GW rep the other day. Boxes costing over a certain amount just don't sell, regardless of content or savings. Blood of the Phoenix is still sitting there on the shelves, no-one even bothers due to the price. Even the people who had pre-ordered withdrew when they learned the price. And this is going to cost even more.

 

Not sure this was a good move on GW's part. More standard corporate greed.  that noise.

[jakerichmond]

I'm still ridiculously excited for this release. I've been waiting for this for half my life and so far I'm not disappointed. The last year of previews have been a lot of fun and I'm looking forward to spending December and January painting and playinga  lot of Killteam.

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

I've been waiting for this for half my life

You're 12?

[ERJAK]

210 USD, or so I hear. Consider how much stuff I could get for my other armies for that sort of money (or indeed, how many new armies I could start, and get a decent header on), I am unlikely to even bother. "Oh, but the units inside would cost that much if bought on their own!" Ah, so no real saving then? And I just have to wait a few months and then I can buy them all anyway, without having to buy the data cards (thus actually saving)?

 

Yeah, the Warp can take that box for all I care.

 

Overheard the owner of the FLGS talking to the GW rep the other day. Boxes costing over a certain amount just don't sell, regardless of content or savings. Blood of the Phoenix is still sitting there on the shelves, no-one even bothers due to the price. Even the people who had pre-ordered withdrew when they learned the price. And this is going to cost even more.

 

Not sure this was a good move on GW's part. More standard corporate greed. :cuss that noise.

You can literally buy an entire ossiarch bonereaper 2000pt competitive list for less than 2 of those boxes. Boxes that total out to 900ish points of dubiously useful monopose sisters and a superfluous codex.

[ThePenitentOne]

If he's been waiting Half of his life, and he's been waiting since 2003, that puts him at 32.

 

I too am still looking crazy forward to this release. BSBs certainly could have been better, but keep in mind that they do need to hold some content back for the Faction Focus, the prerelease announcement and enough stuff for WD too.

 

In addition to the box, Sisters content with the PA Faith and Fury. We get Inquisition in November WD, which fits nicely into a Sisters army- I might bring in Greyfax, because she's Hereticus, she's got history with Sisters and she's plastic. I suspect we'll get Kill Team rules for Sisters in the December WD [or the Kill Team Annual], and man, 3 Arcos, 3 repentia and 5 Sisters is a damn good looking kill team. So that makes 3 sources of content in addition to the box.

 

Furthermore, in addition to the models that come in the box, I'll be adding Celestine and the Geminae, Sister Amalia, Taddeus the Purifier, Pious Vorne and Gotfret de Montbard, and finally as mentioned above, if the rules work out and I can take her in a Sisters detachment, Greyfax.

 

That will be the entire sisters release plastic range, so all  of those models will all be at scale. Like most other people playing Sisters, I have a ton of metal sisters already, but I suspect differences in scale might be enough of an issue to make me consider replacing what I already have. Some people might be bitter about that- I can see their point, but I myself am more than happy to replace the metal. It's been a long 16 years.

 

Even once I get the box, I will still have the second wave release to keep me looking forward. Heck, we might end up with a second box- maybe this time as part of a vs. box, or a Kill Team release.  

 

Finally, I'd like to point out that the wait time for the Shadowspear Models is not really analogous to the Sisters situation; both of the armies in the box had TONS of models still available for purchase during they entire period of the wait, because everything they were waiting for was new content. We, on the other hand are waiting for core units which are not currently available. It'll be February or March at the latest I think.

[taikishi]

That's a pretty big assumption that the Inquisition stuff will actually have rules. The Dark Angels one certainly didn't. Even then, they may try something like "Acts of faith only work in mono-build Sororitas armies", which would have precedence with how they worked in the past. Then what?

[Slasher956]

im Still on the fence about this ....for me the BSB is typical GW... loads of hype and no content.

 

The models are nice, but that doesn’t require a codex release to up date metal models.

 

So the breaking point of this release is the codex and the rules themselves...

 

will we have more than 1 generic hq that can be taken multiple times in a formation? Will we have more than 1 troop choice? 2 fast attack? 3 heavy support...half our units in the elites section?

Will the AoF be scalable? Impactful? Will we end up using a resource to attempt them?

I could go on but you get the point

 

Not releasing the standalone codex at the same time could be a big mistake for GW...if the rules are bad then existing players will find out when the box drops and not bother (again)...so the plastics will stay a neach army rearly seen in the wild - just like now & GKs, with a few more sales to collectors and modellers

[Closet Skeleton]

Genestealer cults had the same problem but also had the luxury of coming out several years ago, to the point where they've now had 2 full release waves.

 

That was kind of my point, in two years this box will be an advantage.

 

The boxset is pretty much just to make good on the Adepticon 2018 video saying "Emperor Willing 2019".

 

Sadly it appears the Big Guy was not totally behind the idea in the end.

 

Shadowspear proves they like doing this kind of boxset outside of that reason. They're basically selling prototypes I guess; which is cool for collectors but not really useful for players.

 

 

The box set isn't even a playable patrol detachment because it's so disjointed with poor options for every unit.

 

Its a legal patrol detachment unlike a lot of box sets. Expecting an optimized army out of a boxset is foolish, remember Shadowspear's random mix of bolters and chainswords or were you just not paying attention to how annoyed chaos players got in general (terminator chainaxes made this thread look healthy)?

 

 

The fact that I will have to wait, like, 3-4 months after the box set drops to even get a codex for my existing army is absurd.

 

Some people will want multiple copies of the boxset, some people will want just the codex. Absurd maybe but its a solvable issue.

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

If he's been waiting Half of his life, and he's been waiting since 2003, that puts him at 32.

That wooshing sound is a joke passing some distance over your head.

[ERJAK]

 

Genestealer cults had the same problem but also had the luxury of coming out several years ago, to the point where they've now had 2 full release waves.

 

That was kind of my point, in two years this box will be an advantage.

The boxset is pretty much just to make good on the Adepticon 2018 video saying "Emperor Willing 2019".

 

Sadly it appears the Big Guy was not totally behind the idea in the end.

Shadowspear proves they like doing this kind of boxset outside of that reason. They're basically selling prototypes I guess; which is cool for collectors but not really useful for players.

 

The box set isn't even a playable patrol detachment because it's so disjointed with poor options for every unit.

Its a legal patrol detachment unlike a lot of box sets. Expecting an optimized army out of a boxset is foolish, remember Shadowspear's random mix of bolters and chainswords or were you just not paying attention to how annoyed chaos players got in general (terminator chainaxes made this thread look healthy)?

 

The fact that I will have to wait, like, 3-4 months after the box set drops to even get a codex for my existing army is absurd.

Some people will want multiple copies of the boxset, some people will want just the codex. Absurd maybe but its a solvable issue.

In two years this box set won't exist and even if it did, you wouldn't buy it. 210$ for a battle sister squad that has a terrible loadout(half as many specials as you need, flamer instead of two stormbolters), not enough repentia, not enough arcos, a pengine missing the new loadout teased in the art, seraphim with no special weapons, and a canoness you won't use unless plasma pistol power sword is the only option in the codex. It's highway robbery NOW, it'll only look worse in time.

 

And legal=/=usable. The entire boxset is 430ish points and loses outright to 10 intercessors.

[dracpanzer]

I'm not bitter at GW for the models. The terrible rules however, well, its going to be fun seeing all the "plastic sisters soooo hard" players crying when the rules suck.

[taikishi]

Yeah, everyone who's saying "the rules are going to be great because GW wants to sell models" or "they're going to be great because the new Marine dex is soooo good" is forgetting that, for every Marines 2.0 dex there's Space Wolves, Grey Knights, and Necrons, and every Sisters Dex since 2E.

 

I want to be wrong, but hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

[Closet Skeleton]

 

In two years this box set won't exist and even if it did, you wouldn't buy it. 210$ for a battle sister squad that has a terrible loadout(half as many specials as you need, flamer instead of two stormbolters), not enough repentia, not enough arcos, a pengine missing the new loadout teased in the art, seraphim with no special weapons, and a canoness you won't use unless plasma pistol power sword is the only option in the codex. It's highway robbery NOW, it'll only look worse in time.

 

And legal=/=usable. The entire boxset is 430ish points and loses outright to 10 intercessors.

 

 

Shadowspear is being repacked into Start Collecting so this box might be as well.

 

Deathwatch Overkill has similar issues and if that was still available I'd still recommend it as a Genestealer Cult starter army.

 

Who cares what the load outs are, they're plastic and only a few careful cuts away with compatibility with any other imperial kit. You know, the reason people wanted plastic sisters in the first place.

[taikishi]

 

 

So 2 weeks from now (11/11/19) is the last BSB.  So do you think that the sister box set will go up for pre-order on that Saturday 11/16 with a release date 2 weeks later 11/30?

 

That would draw people into the store for the weekend of black Friday, while making the sister release distinct from holiday sales, yet also insuring that GW sells out of the run.

 

 

As for today's BSB, I like the Churbs... and it is nice that they will have some in game effects.  Maybe they will have a role like the Incursor's haywire mine.  I'm not sure if I can say the word without my comment being flagged but a defensive system with a similar effect to a fashion accessory vest that appears some times in the news.

 

Although now that I put it into words, I don't know if GW has the guts to make a game mechanic around the image of an exploding baby.  While it is sufficiently grim-dark, it does go against the family friendly image they are trying to go for.

We already know every release between now and the end of the year, as of this weekend's preorder confirming the leaks.

 

My bad.  I haven't seen that leak yet.  Link please.

 

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359365-anew-mephistonpsychic-awakening-p3/?p=5414026

[Atrus]

Who cares what the load outs are, they're plastic and only a few careful cuts away with compatibility with any other imperial kit. You know, the reason people wanted plastic sisters in the first place.

I only ever wanted plastic sisters because of the assumption they'd be cheaper. I'm not so sure that assumption is even remotely true any more.

[Commander Dawnstar]

Yeah, I'd have put the models being cheaper, lighter and having more scope for internal variety through headswaps and such before conversion potential - not to suggest that the ability to source special weapons and such from other kits won't be welcome.

[ERJAK]

 

 

 

In two years this box set won't exist and even if it did, you wouldn't buy it. 210$ for a battle sister squad that has a terrible loadout(half as many specials as you need, flamer instead of two stormbolters), not enough repentia, not enough arcos, a pengine missing the new loadout teased in the art, seraphim with no special weapons, and a canoness you won't use unless plasma pistol power sword is the only option in the codex. It's highway robbery NOW, it'll only look worse in time.

 

And legal=/=usable. The entire boxset is 430ish points and loses outright to 10 intercessors.

 

Shadowspear is being repacked into Start Collecting so this box might be as well.

 

Deathwatch Overkill has similar issues and if that was still available I'd still recommend it as a Genestealer Cult starter army.

 

Who cares what the load outs are, they're plastic and only a few careful cuts away with compatibility with any other imperial kit. You know, the reason people wanted plastic sisters in the first place.

They only kind of have compatability with other imperial kits. Marines are too large and guard are too small. You also have their 'dynamic' poses making some guns fit oddly. You could do it but it'd take quite a bit of work and you'd still end up with a sister with either jacked up hands or a gun as tall as they are.

 

To modify the models you have to have access to spare imperial bits. I know I have 0 meltas lying around and the only stormbolters I have are terminator stormbolters that would look ridiculous on sisters. So it'd be 210 dollars for the box and either 60$ for a sacrificial tac squad or 15-20 dollars plus shipping and handling for the extra bits I'd need. And that's just for the battle sisters. I apologize for not being over the moon for the priviledge to pay more money to make my very expensive models useful.

 

Also keep in mind that both of those boxsets were cheaper than this one. The shadowspear box was 35 dollars cheaper and has 8 additional models (Figure the chaos half is pretty comparable to the non-battle sisters models and then add the infiltrator squad to cover the battle sisters and you still have 2 full primaris kits and a character). I doubt the codex is going to make up for half of a start collecting+35$.

 

Even with the special edition codex shadowspear was MASSIVELY more value for the price and the Sisters box is unlikely to beat out even just the straight up retail kits in terms of value per dollar.

 

If they break it up into a start collecting it'd suddenly be a great option for building out a relatively cheap SoB force, even if it was 100-110$. Until then, this boxset is just something you buy because there's nothing else out there.

Edited October 31, 2019 by ERJAK

[ThePenitentOne]

 

If he's been waiting Half of his life, and he's been waiting since 2003, that puts him at 32.

That wooshing sound is a joke passing some distance over your head.

 

 

Ahh- yeah, sorry about that. Hard to perceive tone from text. My bad.