BSB Speculation

[Atrus]

This is interesting. Definately have to wait things out and see what else comes.

The miracle dice has potential but if it's only a dice replacement mechanic, it won't serve me very well as I already see a pile of nothing but 1s and 2s due to bad luck that get unused the whole game and making the whole mechanic useless to me personally.

Still it can be useful for melta shots to make them reliable. Replace one of the dice with a middle result miracle dice and roll the other d6 and hope for a better result. Will eliminate the dreaded snake eyes damage result.

 

Already get pleasant images in my mind of an inferno pistol Cannoness firing off one last 'screw you' shot when she gets taken down in combat.

[dracpanzer]

I am also wondering if there is a limit on how many Miracle Dice you may use per Phase.

There are a lot of things left to learn about them. How many can you use a phase? Do you have to declare you are using it before you would make a roll, or use it like a re-roll? Do some of the Order Convictions allow you to gain more? Does Celestine grant you a miracle die at the start of your turn?

 

Why aren't the Miracle dice supplied in the box marked with a fleur?

[ERJAK]

 

I am also wondering if there is a limit on how many Miracle Dice you may use per Phase.

There are a lot of things left to learn about them. How many can you use a phase? Do you have to declare you are using it before you would make a roll, or use it like a re-roll? Do some of the Order Convictions allow you to gain more? Does Celestine grant you a miracle die at the start of your turn?

Why aren't the Miracle dice supplied in the box marked with a fleur?

Because that would have been 12 cents more expensive.

 

Judging by the blurb it looks like they'll be used instead of the role which is unfortunate due to how much less powerful that is.

 

 

Totally unrelated to dracpanzers comment and definitely not directed at anything in particular but,

 

Corrected list:

 

Good chance.

Low chance, don't just sack off character for a random dice.

Very very low chance, slightly more likely in melee.

Low chance

Irrelevant, don't sack characters for dice

Near 0 chance against a good opponent, low otherwise.

Low chance in most situations.

2.5 to 3 dice per turn, GENEROUSLY.

[Montford]

I am also interested if any changes have been made to the Traits for the six major Orders. 

[Ficinus]

Well, 4 of them were built around faith points, right, and now AoFs work entirely differently, so they have to change, right?

[ValourousHeart]

Including fw, space Marines have around 130 datasheets, without counting dark angels, blood angels, Swolves, etc.

You are also wrong about chapter tactics -- Marines get this regardless if you take a knight or not. Doctrines are what are dependent. Only Marines and sisters have this issue, Sacred Rites and Combat Doctrines are the only "your whole force" is required, not whole detachment.

 

The reason this matters, is because Marines (w/ fw) have around 130 datasheets, and can fill any role

 

Sisters have around 20, and lack a lot of roles. In fact, their only long range weapon is the exorcist, and there's a big question of effectiveness on that. Maybe it's been improved significantly, maybe not.

 

That isn't to say this won't end up being good -- we don't have enough information. If you don't start with any,l miracle dice, and there's no strategem or character to get more, it's practically worthless due to its insanely random nature (roll a six, it's great, roll a 1 and you'll never use it)

 

If you start with say, 1 per 10 sisters, it's now over powered, since a walking church can have 100 sisters, and even a few sixes will make Melta guns or Exorcists super dangerous.

 

Sister CURRENTLY have 22 units in the Beta codex.  We don't know how many they will have in the final codex.  So it is to early to assume that we won't have any new units to fill the rolls we are missing... especially after GW said that the codex will include "a number of brand-new, never-before-seen units."

 

To make any assertion that Sister don't have the units or tools to be effective when all we have to go on is less than 300 words previewing 5 rules from a codex that is likely to be somewhere between the Imperial Knights and Dark Angels (120-150 pages) is a wee bit on the premature side.

[Montford]

Well, 4 of them were built around faith points, right, and now AoFs work entirely differently, so they have to change, right?

 

True enough. I always used Sacred Rose so I wasn't that familiar offhand with the others. :)

[ERJAK]

Well, 4 of them were built around faith points, right, and now AoFs work entirely differently, so they have to change, right?

Yep. Ebon chalice straight up doesn't make any sense anymore.

 

Also vessels, fire and fury and celestines warlord trait.

[Ficinus]

Yeah, I always use Bloody Rose, so it didn't occur to me either. I hope Bloody Rose stays the same or gets better. Marines have double traits, why not us too!

[ValourousHeart]

Totally unrelated to dracpanzers comment and definitely not directed at anything in particular but,

Corrected list:

 

Good chance.

Low chance, don't just sack off character for a random dice.

Very very low chance, slightly more likely in melee.

Low chance

Irrelevant, don't sack characters for dice

Near 0 chance against a good opponent, low otherwise.

Low chance in most situations.

2.5 to 3 dice per turn, GENEROUSLY.

 

That is interesting that you would think that your opponents shooting phase is irrelevant.

If you opponent has a sniper squad, and they shoot one of your characters you get a miracle dice.

 

Same goes for both CC phases.

A unit and a character in CC is all but guaranteed to get a miracle dice.

If I wipe out their unit, I get one.

If they kill my character, I get one.

The only way I don't get one is if everyone survives.

 

I'm surprised that this is such a difficult concept to grasp.

 

You realize that this just might be the unique stick for sisters.

Sacrificial characters.

We win by getting our Brass kicked.

[Dread]

Now that's funny. Lose to win. Hmm? I've, unfortunately, popped off about the release just from such a long and dragged out perspective but have discovered patients, hmm that might become one of my sister superiors name, any who until I have that hot little tome in hand I will not speculate further. This will be my 5th and final sisters army and I will build it to fit when I have the rules, slowly of coarse mainly because of the long release wait time but that might mean better paint time.

[Slasher956]

Intrestingly... no ones mentioned where Spirit of the martyr talks about damage tables.... confirmation that vehicles will be affected by <order> convictions? & AoF?

 

[Banjulhu]

Intrestingly... no ones mentioned where Spirit of the martyr talks about damage tables.... confirmation that vehicles will be affected by <order> convictions? & AoF?

 

From the article Sacred Rites appear not to be linked to specific orders but to all units in the army being Sororitas or Adeptus Ministorum.

 

What units Order Convictions will effect is entirely separate

[Closet Skeleton]

Technically Spirit of the Martyr lets you get a miracle die in your opponent's shooting phase. It just takes one depleted unit hanging around within 36" of a heavy bolter retributor or 12" of a stormbolter sister for a chance at it.

 

Anyone else catch this? The list of units on the transfer sheets lists Retrubutors and Celestians. Pretty sure that means we'll be getting new boxes for those two units yeah?

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/11/11/sisters-of-battle-army-set-unboxinggw-homepage-post-1/

 

A Retributor kit was previewed (in tiny rendered fragments) in the bulletin already.

 

Assuming you mean gaining a MD from overwatch shooting eliminating a unit and then again for eliminating a unit from a fight, no. Both happen in the fight phase iirc

 

Charge phase is completely separate from the fight phase.

[Slasher956]

So lets get this clear... MD generation MAX possible results per phase with the Gaining Miracle dice rule box....

 

Start of Round - 1 (given)

 

own movement - 0

own shooting - 1 

own psychic - 0

own charge - 0

own fight - 1

own moral - 1

 

enemy movement - 0

enemy shooting - 1

enemy psychic - 1

enemy charge - 1

enemy fight -1

enemy moral - 1

 

So we have a theoritical max of 9 MD gained per round.. 1 guarenteed at the start of the round, 3 in our turn (likely only 1 or 2 depending on units in CC), and 5 in the enemy turn (again likely to be just 1- unless your losing characters)... so realistic average will be 3 per round...

 

 

EDIT - So unless there are other rules on how to get them this rule will be a 'almost' category rule... OR you could argue that its giving the sisters 3 CP a turn for re-rolls

[A.T.]

EDIT - So unless there are other rules on how to get them this rule will be a 'almost' category rule... OR you could argue that its giving the sisters 3 CP a turn for re-rolls

Don't think these are re-rolls, rather you use the dice before making the roll. If you miss/fail a roll it's too late for miracles.

[Montford]

 

EDIT - So unless there are other rules on how to get them this rule will be a 'almost' category rule... OR you could argue that its giving the sisters 3 CP a turn for re-rolls

Don't think these are re-rolls, rather you use the dice before making the roll. If you miss/fail a roll it's too late for miracles.

 

 

So then that's better than a CP for e re-roll, because when using a Miracle Die  you already know what the result will be.

[Slasher956]

 

EDIT - So unless there are other rules on how to get them this rule will be a 'almost' category rule... OR you could argue that its giving the sisters 3 CP a turn for re-rolls

Don't think these are re-rolls, rather you use the dice before making the roll. If you miss/fail a roll it's too late for miracles.

 

 

I didnt say that they where re-rolls... I was saying that it could be argued that they are the EQUIVALENT of CP re-rolls... ie instead of having to keep CP back for a re-roll you could use a MD instead there fore the whole MD resource is comparable to that of the re-roll stratagem.

[ERJAK]

 

 

Totally unrelated to dracpanzers comment and definitely not directed at anything in particular but,

Corrected list:

 

Good chance.

Low chance, don't just sack off character for a random dice.

Very very low chance, slightly more likely in melee.

Low chance

Irrelevant, don't sack characters for dice

Near 0 chance against a good opponent, low otherwise.

Low chance in most situations.

2.5 to 3 dice per turn, GENEROUSLY.

That is interesting that you would think that your opponents shooting phase is irrelevant.

If you opponent has a sniper squad, and they shoot one of your characters you get a miracle dice.

 

Same goes for both CC phases.

A unit and a character in CC is all but guaranteed to get a miracle dice.

If I wipe out their unit, I get one.

If they kill my character, I get one.

The only way I don't get one is if everyone survives.

 

I'm surprised that this is such a difficult concept to grasp.

 

You realize that this just might be the unique stick for sisters.

Sacrificial characters.

We win by getting our Brass kicked.

If they kill one of your characters, the miracle dice is worthless compared to the value of losing your character.

 

The reason those dice don't count is because YOU SHOULD NOT BE LETTING THEM KILL YOUR CHARACTERS. It would be a net loss of miracle dice because you would be using them to autopass save rolls.

 

If you lose a character in melee, you're already pretty boned. Counting on those dice is idiotic because they are A. Again, functionally worthless compared to the value of losing a character and B. Likely coming after you have used miracle dice to attempt to SAVE that character.

 

If you had even the most basic, simple understanding of game tactics I wouldn't have to spell that out for you.

 

Here, let me fully simplify it.

 

People who aren't idiots throwing away valuable characters for the luls will get 2.5 dice per turn on average. People who are dumb and thow away characters for nothing will be given a single largely useless miracle dice for being very special boys.

 

Getting a miracle dice for a character is NOT a positive and is not a strategy to help you win. It is a way to lose slightly less badly and that is IT.

[taikishi]

 

Totally unrelated to dracpanzers comment and definitely not directed at anything in particular but,

Corrected list:

 

Good chance.

Low chance, don't just sack off character for a random dice.

Very very low chance, slightly more likely in melee.

Low chance

Irrelevant, don't sack characters for dice

Near 0 chance against a good opponent, low otherwise.

Low chance in most situations.

2.5 to 3 dice per turn, GENEROUSLY.

 

That is interesting that you would think that your opponents shooting phase is irrelevant.

If you opponent has a sniper squad, and they shoot one of your characters you get a miracle dice.

 

Same goes for both CC phases.

A unit and a character in CC is all but guaranteed to get a miracle dice.

If I wipe out their unit, I get one.

If they kill my character, I get one.

The only way I don't get one is if everyone survives.

 

I'm surprised that this is such a difficult concept to grasp.

 

You realize that this just might be the unique stick for sisters.

Sacrificial characters.

We win by getting our Brass kicked.

 

 

The old L5R CCG had a similar mechanic for the Crab Clan at one point: Yu (translates loosely to Courage)

 

At the end of a battle, if you lost the battle you totaled up your Yu value among cards you controlled and destroyed that much Force (think Power if you've ever played Magic) worth of cards from your opponent. Problem was the mechanic required you to basically be losing the game to get any value out of it and the value you gained was miniscule at best. It was eventually scrapped.

 

My point is that's what at least two of the methods of gaining Miracle Dice are  - you have to be losing the game (taking Morale tests, losing characters) to gain them and a single die here or there isn't going to turn the tide of a battle. Especially when you have no control over what the value of that die is based on the limited information we have thus far.

[ERJAK]

 

 

 

 

Totally unrelated to dracpanzers comment and definitely not directed at anything in particular but,

Corrected list:

 

Good chance.

Low chance, don't just sack off character for a random dice.

Very very low chance, slightly more likely in melee.

Low chance

Irrelevant, don't sack characters for dice

Near 0 chance against a good opponent, low otherwise.

Low chance in most situations.

2.5 to 3 dice per turn, GENEROUSLY.

That is interesting that you would think that your opponents shooting phase is irrelevant.

If you opponent has a sniper squad, and they shoot one of your characters you get a miracle dice.

 

Same goes for both CC phases.

A unit and a character in CC is all but guaranteed to get a miracle dice.

If I wipe out their unit, I get one.

If they kill my character, I get one.

The only way I don't get one is if everyone survives.

 

I'm surprised that this is such a difficult concept to grasp.

 

You realize that this just might be the unique stick for sisters.

Sacrificial characters.

We win by getting our Brass kicked.

The old L5R CCG had a similar mechanic for the Crab Clan at one point: Yu (translates loosely to Courage)

 

At the end of a battle, if you lost the battle you totaled up your Yu value among cards you controlled and destroyed that much Force (think Power if you've ever played Magic) worth of cards from your opponent. Problem was the mechanic required you to basically be losing the game to get any value out of it and the value you gained was miniscule at best. It was eventually scrapped.

 

My point is that's what at least two of the methods of gaining Miracle Dice are - you have to be losing the game (taking Morale tests, losing characters) to gain them and a single die here or there isn't going to turn the tide of a battle. Especially when you have no control over what the value of that die is based on the limited information we have thus far.

This. It's not going to help you win, it'll barely make you feel better about how bad you're losing.

[Slasher956]

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354891-sisters-of-battle-army-set-–-unboxing-p58/?p=5425559

 

A nice picture... looks to be from the codex...

 

We get a floating pulpit! for one of our brand new, never seen before units.... 

 

In the far future if you dont go to church.. the church comes to you and sets you alight!!!!

[A.T.]

We get a floating pulpit! for one of our brand new, never seen before units...

Similar to the throne of judgement perhaps.

[kombatwombat]

So lets get this clear... MD generation MAX possible results per phase with the Gaining Miracle dice rule box....

 

Start of Round - 1 (given)

 

own movement - 0

own shooting - 1

own psychic - 0

own charge - 0

own fight - 1

own moral - 1

 

enemy movement - 0

enemy shooting - 1

enemy psychic - 1

enemy charge - 1

enemy fight -1

enemy moral - 1

 

So we have a theoritical max of 9 MD gained per round.. 1 guarenteed at the start of the round, 3 in our turn (likely only 1 or 2 depending on units in CC), and 5 in the enemy turn (again likely to be just 1- unless your losing characters)... so realistic average will be 3 per round...

 

 

EDIT - So unless there are other rules on how to get them this rule will be a 'almost' category rule... OR you could argue that its giving the sisters 3 CP a turn for re-rolls

Enemy Movement - Space Marine Cluster Mines Stratagem (amongst others) deals mortal wounds in the Movement Phase.

 

Your Movement - Space Marine Haywire Mines deal mortal wounds in your Movement Phase.

 

Your Charge - Overwatch.

 

If any of those kill a Character you get a die for Sacrifice. That just leaves your Psychic Phase, which I’m genuinely stumped by. Still, at least 12 per turn are theoretically possible if you have Characters coming out the wazoo (and into the grave).

[Slasher956]

 

Enemy Movement - Space Marine Cluster Mines Stratagem (amongst others) deals mortal wounds in the Movement Phase.

 

Your Movement - Space Marine Haywire Mines deal mortal wounds in your Movement Phase.

 

Your Charge - Overwatch.

 

If any of those kill a Character you get a die for Sacrifice. That just leaves your Psychic Phase, which I’m genuinely stumped by. Still, at least 12 per turn are theoretically possible if you have Characters coming out the wazoo (and into the grave).

 

 

Well for one turn any way... then we'd have no characters left :p