BSB Speculation

[crazy_tuco]

PenEngines have been confirmed, my guess is the rest will be coming just nothing official yet.

 

I hope so.  The non-sisters stuff is what appeals to me most in this faction.  

[ThePenitentOne]

I am encouraged by the Ecclesiarchy characters which have been released with Kill Team and Blackstone. It shows that GW knows there is a market. So far we've seen a Death Cult Assassin in Rogue Trader, a priest and a zealot in the Blackstone base box, and a Crusader is on the way in the next expansion. I hope they fix the Keyword issues and roll them all into the new dex.

 

Whether or not they go that far, I think it's at least an indicator that they're are thinking about battle conclaves.

 

As for the Canoness, I like her, but it's because she's such a contrast from the other Canoness models I have (ie. the current metal Canoness, Verydian, the Wargames Exclusive Canoness with Progena and a conversion based on a Seraphim Superior and a metal storm shield). If I didn't have those, I might like this less. The censors and the draped band that connects them makes her look very ceremonial, and it's nice to see a Canoness model depicted as a symbol of faith rather than a symbol of battle.

 

Also, one of my favourite pieces of fight choreography is the scene from the Lord of the Rings trilogy where Gandalf fights with his staff and a sword, so I really appreciate that load out. Even so, I'm hoping for multiple builds in the same box.

[Montford]

I do like the Canoness model, although I will probably remove that giant collar whatsit. Fortunately it will be plastic :)

[Dread]

First I have to say this has been the longest tease they've ever done. All other releases, that I can remember were a month or two at the most, as I said can remember.

 

Can't wait for the sisters, helmets are great, and the models or renderings look nice. All the other little bits like the vehicle stuff look great, Saraphim...great. Repentia, I'll get the metal ones as soon as possible. The canoness, while nice, I have Veridan, the new sister superior which I'll use as a canoness and Celestine, I will get her and conversion galore just to make her wysiwyg mainly for smaller games.

 

It's this long tease that's wearing thin for me all tho I think it'll be worth the wait.

 

*love the Lord of the Rings refrence, made me look at the model in a different light. Thanks for that*

[Atrus]

Yeah I'm definitely in the boat of things being drawn out too long now. I don't think I'm alone as I feel the negativity bubbles up more easily. With a shorter tease period the excitement can drown out negative ideas or view. With a lot of the excitement wearing down now, it's easier to pick at things.

I for one am tired of the wait and pretty much have no excitement for the upcoming release. It's more a mild interest now.

The repentia preview was very disappointing and frankly, the more Marine units and rules that get released, the more pessimistic I get about sisters rules being good.

 

I really want to see some amazing rules for sisters to assuage this. Or at least some insulin to help with this marine diabetes I'm getting.

[Beams]

I really think they overdid thr Marines, and it's a massive step in powercreep.

 

An Ultramarines tactical has an 24" Str 4 ap-1 gun that always fires 2 shots, 2 attacks, tough 4, str 4, w3+, rerolls morale, and chapter tactics (shoot and fall back, +1 ld), and costs 13 pts.

 

Sister of Battle has a 24" gun thats Str 4 Ap - and only fires once outside of 12". WS 4+, Str 3 and toughness 3, and order traits. Costs 9 pts.

She's a lot worse. Even if we factor in our faith mechanics (which are currently terrible) were outmached by a lot there.

 

An intercessor is 17 pts, has a 30" Str 4 Ap -2 gun that always fires 2 shots, 3 attacks, 2 wounds, t4 str4, WS 3+, and has the ability to be upgrade to veteran status (+1 attack, +1 ld) that opens up the door to being rapid fire 2 (4shots) instead of rapid fire 1.

 

Our Celestian is our battle sister, but with WS 3+ and A2. She costs 11.

 

I feel like GW has just jumped the shark this edition, and based on the "golly gee" texts that have been spreading in my group chat, we will only be playing Killteam from 40k. Which likely means I will get *maybe* 1 box of sisters, and *maybe* one box of seraphim, provided we actually get a full kill team rule release, which I doubt.

[Rizara]

well said Atrus, i feel your pain.  The long tease is just...well wearing thin.   The models while great in some areas, and in some ways...different, will make painting the new army rewarding, but as far as I have seen, it is still pretty much more of the same, and its the rules I am waiting on the most too.  I want something new, I want something exciting, and it would be nice to see something on par with all the updates the other armies are getting.  If we just get more of the same, then sisters will still be in the same place they are now, this long drawn out exhausting wait will leave a sour taste on many players lips.  So what if the army looks pretty, if they are still just second string space marines, then it will be more of just a collection of models and not a fieldable army for me. 

[Slasher956]

I wonder if  they thought that the beta dex was near done so had the WHC teases/ BSB already planned... then when the got the feedback which, lets face it, was more negative than positive they've had to go back to the drawing board on the whole codex /rules.  Because of that they've streached out the BSB to attempt to cover the delay.  So the reason why there's no rules leaks or hints is because they are only now getting them finished and signed off, so wont 'release' any as it will interfear with the SM reveals.

[Atrus]

GW before beta release:

 

"This will be great; we release this beta, fans love us for the attention and we make some minor tweaks after the beta because these rules are absolutely amazing. Bring out the models earlier than everyone expects. Win win."

 

*beta released...*

 

"..."

"..."

"We'll...that was..."

"...unexpected..."

[Beams]

100% agree. They expected us to fawn all over the faithpoints and vessels, but didn't take in to account that holy Trinity wasn't good, and that faith points were hard to use, and vessels made it near impossible to have individual acts of faith be strong, but saving cps for vessels when you don't know when your going to AoF is frustrating and very hard to play effectively. Especially since so many of us did Mechanized Infantry, and weren't clumped within 6" of a Canoness.

[taikishi]

@Beams

 

My only hope is that, as someone else suggested in the Marine 'Dex thread, Doctrines are special rules limited to specific units (Devastator for heavy support, etc) and that the wording on Scions of Guilliman restricts it to specific units who have the Scions of Guilliman ability.

 

My faith in GW doing something that sensible? About as low as my odds of being struck by lightning five times consecutively and living.

 

Seeing the Marine book and looking at it as a Blood Angels player since 1994, I have a lot of trepidation for how Sisters are going to turn out.

[Slasher956]

Rather ironic really.... but as time goes on I'm less and less worried that I dont have any hobby spend money to throw at the sisters release....because I'm now expecting it to be that bad, or at least no overall improvement in power level over the beta dex

[ERJAK]

GW before beta release:

 

"This will be great; we release this beta, fans love us for the attention and we make some minor tweaks after the beta because these rules are absolutely amazing. Bring out the models earlier than everyone expects. Win win."

 

*beta released...*

 

"..."

"..."

"We'll...that was..."

"...unexpected..."

My guess goes the opposite direction. I think they knew the beta codex was bunk from the beginning. I think they half arsed a shoddy book over a weekend so that they could either A. Shrug off any harsh criticism as being towards something they didn't care about anyway; B. They never intended the beta codex to actually inform the real codex and made it as a PR stunt(probably because marketing told them to) or C. They wanted us to write the book for them because they couldn't be bothered.

 

The beta codex is such a lazy POS compared to marines, genestealers, CWE, etc that I can't imagine they actually believed it would be well recieved.

[Ice warrior]

I might or might have not spent couple minutes figuring out how the Canoness might look without the hilarious accessories. I did not bother removing front cloak bits. But I think, I would take them off too. 

 

Now she reminds me of a space marines... somewhat.

 

 

-Ice

[Beams]

I really think they overdid thr Marines, and it's a massive step in powercreep.

An Ultramarines tactical has an 24" Str 4 ap-1 gun that always fires 2 shots, 2 attacks, tough 4, str 4, w3+, rerolls morale, and chapter tactics (shoot and fall back, +1 ld), and costs 13 pts.

Sister of Battle has a 24" gun thats Str 4 Ap - and only fires once outside of 12". WS 4+, Str 3 and toughness 3, and order traits. Costs 9 pts.

She's a lot worse. Even if we factor in our faith mechanics (which are currently terrible) were outmached by a lot there.

An intercessor is 17 pts, has a 30" Str 4 Ap -2 gun that always fires 2 shots, 3 attacks, 2 wounds, t4 str4, WS 3+, and has the ability to be upgrade to veteran status (+1 attack, +1 ld) that opens up the door to being rapid fire 2 (4shots) instead of rapid fire 1.

Our Celestian is our battle sister, but with WS 3+ and A2. She costs 11.

I feel like GW has just jumped the shark this edition, and based on the ":cuss" texts that have been spreading in my group chat, we will only be playing Killteam from 40k. Which likely means I will get *maybe* 1 box of sisters, and *maybe* one box of seraphim, provided we actually get a full kill team rule release, which I doubt.

Sorry -- based in the new ls and rumour section, space marine tactical are getting those buffs, and dropping to 12 pts...

[taikishi]

It's not rumor. I'm looking at GMG's review and Tactical, Assault, and Devastator Marines all dropped to 12ppm.

[ERJAK]

 

I really think they overdid thr Marines, and it's a massive step in powercreep.

An Ultramarines tactical has an 24" Str 4 ap-1 gun that always fires 2 shots, 2 attacks, tough 4, str 4, w3+, rerolls morale, and chapter tactics (shoot and fall back, +1 ld), and costs 13 pts.

Sister of Battle has a 24" gun thats Str 4 Ap - and only fires once outside of 12". WS 4+, Str 3 and toughness 3, and order traits. Costs 9 pts.

She's a lot worse. Even if we factor in our faith mechanics (which are currently terrible) were outmached by a lot there.

An intercessor is 17 pts, has a 30" Str 4 Ap -2 gun that always fires 2 shots, 3 attacks, 2 wounds, t4 str4, WS 3+, and has the ability to be upgrade to veteran status (+1 attack, +1 ld) that opens up the door to being rapid fire 2 (4shots) instead of rapid fire 1.

Our Celestian is our battle sister, but with WS 3+ and A2. She costs 11.

I feel like GW has just jumped the shark this edition, and based on the ":cuss" texts that have been spreading in my group chat, we will only be playing Killteam from 40k. Which likely means I will get *maybe* 1 box of sisters, and *maybe* one box of seraphim, provided we actually get a full kill team rule release, which I doubt.

Sorry -- based in the new ls and rumour section, space marine tactical are getting those buffs, and dropping to 12 pts...

 

The original analysis is wrong. I'm sorry but it just is. At 13 points, tac marines were dogcrap compared to battle sisters at 9. Sure, they had better stats, but not in any way that mattered. Sisters being 9ppm meant that you could actually achieve critical mass with battle sisters or you could much more cheaply get additional CP by building battalions.

 

With the bonus rules they have AND the 12ppm, they may well be better than battle sisters now, but trying to say that they were better than battle sisters BEFORE is frankly pant-on-head.

[Beams]

 

 

I really think they overdid thr Marines, and it's a massive step in powercreep.

An Ultramarines tactical has an 24" Str 4 ap-1 gun that always fires 2 shots, 2 attacks, tough 4, str 4, w3+, rerolls morale, and chapter tactics (shoot and fall back, +1 ld), and costs 13 pts.

Sister of Battle has a 24" gun thats Str 4 Ap - and only fires once outside of 12". WS 4+, Str 3 and toughness 3, and order traits. Costs 9 pts.

She's a lot worse. Even if we factor in our faith mechanics (which are currently terrible) were outmached by a lot there.

An intercessor is 17 pts, has a 30" Str 4 Ap -2 gun that always fires 2 shots, 3 attacks, 2 wounds, t4 str4, WS 3+, and has the ability to be upgrade to veteran status (+1 attack, +1 ld) that opens up the door to being rapid fire 2 (4shots) instead of rapid fire 1.

Our Celestian is our battle sister, but with WS 3+ and A2. She costs 11.

I feel like GW has just jumped the shark this edition, and based on the ":cuss" texts that have been spreading in my group chat, we will only be playing Killteam from 40k. Which likely means I will get *maybe* 1 box of sisters, and *maybe* one box of seraphim, provided we actually get a full kill team rule release, which I doubt.

 

Sorry -- based in the new ls and rumour section, space marine tactical are getting those buffs, and dropping to 12 pts...

The original analysis is wrong. I'm sorry but it just is. At 13 points, tac marines were dogcrap compared to battle sisters at 9. Sure, they had better stats, but not in any way that mattered. Sisters being 9ppm meant that you could actually achieve critical mass with battle sisters or you could much more cheaply get additional CP by building battalions.

 

With the bonus rules they have AND the 12ppm, they may well be better than battle sisters now, but trying to say that they were better than battle sisters BEFORE is frankly pant-on-head.

First -- I never said that before a marine was better. I don't know what post you read, but I was comparing post buff marine to beta codex sisters.

 

That said, I don't know what game you were playing, but before they were at least close.

 

Now it's absurd. For +3 pts, you get so many more benefits that I wouldn't ever take a sisters stat line for anything but fluff and looks.

 

Plus 1 attack, WS and LD for 2 pts is what we pay to go to Celestians. Add in tough +1, Str +1, Bolter discipline, combat doctrines and enhanced chapter tactics, reroll morale, etc and that's only 3 pts? Like, golly gee. Especially Ultramarines who will always shoot twice with an extra ap-1 on their gun. They are insane for 12 pts. And intercessors are arguably *even* better.

[CaptainMarsh]

Yeah, Battle Sister Squads will need something rather effective to make them not dog:cuss in comparison.

[Atrus]

Let's not derail this thread with a marine comparison argument.

[Aqui]

=][= Okay, I've let this discussion go off topic long enough. Marine stat lines and Codex discussion doesn't go here. It's for SPECULATION about Sisters *only* Back on topic =][=

[taikishi]

I'm sorry, but you can't speculate without comparing army A to armies B, C, D and E. And comparing the beta codex to what Marines are getting? It's fairly easy to speculate that unless drastic changes are made to the codex from beta - and my $$ is on it not happening - Sisters are going to be dog compared to most other armies.

[Atrus]

I wonder what the odds are that Sisters will get a main codex release and then supplemental codecs for the different orders like this recent marine batch?

We shall see I guess.

[Slasher956]

Don’t think there’s enough background / gaming styles yet for supplements for different orders...or dedicated following for the individual orders. Up until the beta the differences where purely colour schemes

[dracpanzer]

I wonder what the odds are that Sisters will get a main codex release and then supplemental codecs for the different orders like this recent marine batch?

We shall see I guess.

I honestly don't see Sisters getting supplemental codexes ever happening.

 

In my opinion they could roll the entirety of the Order convictions right in to the dumpster. With the AoF re-write we are supposedly getting you only have two convictions that aren't tied to AoF in the first place. They have to make a huge shift just to come up with six convictions that are useful without their being just one or two default convictions anyways. I don't see them managing that either.