Ishagu Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 We're moving to a stratagem focused game, so rules could be expressed via strats to save on datasheet bloat. It needs to be more efficiently done, however. We should be able to simply nominate a unit from a specific selection and pay a command point to upgrade it to veterans without needing to pay further CP for a specific detachment. Astartes have stratagem bloat but unfortunately 95% of them are useless or tied to specific units that most of us won't be running. The next codex needs to scrap most existing Strats and give us new ones, or if it's a Primaris only book provide us with an entirely new selection. What's missing from the Primaris line? Good Relics, Warlord Traits, Stratagems and Psychic Powers. War Angel and BLACK BLΠFLY 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 So you're saying... Primaris don't need any new models? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 They most certainly do, but they need proper rule support for the mechanics of 8th edition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 Check out Vigilus. Veteran Intercessors can rapid fire 4 and reroll all misses. It can be devastating. Yeah but I would rather see a data sheet and rules that are appropriately pointed to reflect this for actual units. There is too much detachment and stratagem bloat when you can just add the rules to the units and increase the points appropriately instead for something like this. It’d be a lot better if we don’t have to burn more CPs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead01 Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 We're moving to a stratagem focused game, so rules could be expressed via strats to save on datasheet bloat. It needs to be more efficiently done, however. We should be able to simply nominate a unit from a specific selection and pay a command point to upgrade it to veterans without needing to pay further CP for a specific detachment. Astartes have stratagem bloat but unfortunately 95% of them are useless or tied to specific units that most of us won't be running. The next codex needs to scrap most existing Strats and give us new ones, or if it's a Primaris only book provide us with an entirely new selection. What's missing from the Primaris line? Good Relics, Warlord Traits, Stratagems and Psychic Powers. Interesting. As an alternative to a cheaper transport I would have said how about a deep strike X number of units stratagem. I hadn't realized there were so many Stratagems but then I also don't own the lase 2 supplements either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
War Angel Posted June 13, 2019 Author Share Posted June 13, 2019 Good point, just playing both sides. We need a data sheet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 (edited) @Warhead01 Yeah I've been advocating that for a while. Ideally we want to teleport in Dreadnoughts. It's very common amongst other armies. Edited June 13, 2019 by Ishagu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gederas Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 We're moving to a stratagem focused game, so rules could be expressed via strats to save on datasheet bloat. It needs to be more efficiently done, however. We should be able to simply nominate a unit from a specific selection and pay a command point to upgrade it to veterans without needing to pay further CP for a specific detachment. Astartes have stratagem bloat but unfortunately 95% of them are useless or tied to specific units that most of us won't be running. The next codex needs to scrap most existing Strats and give us new ones, or if it's a Primaris only book provide us with an entirely new selection. What's missing from the Primaris line? Good Relics, Warlord Traits, Stratagems and Psychic Powers. Kind of hard to do stratagems with Primaris because they're expensive, and Marines are generally started for Command Points..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 Maybe. At the moments I'm struggling to spend command points with my Ultras where as I can barely refrain from spending then all on turn 1 with my AdMech and Knights... It would be a nice situation to be in if we had so many great strats that we couldn't find enough CP for them all! BLACK BLΠFLY 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK0SIAN Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 Although a lot of the game is focussed on Stratagems, not many of the key units in most armies require Stratagems to be effective, their base rules are good enough on their own. Marines are not. Things like veterans should be a separate unit, that hasn’t required CP to get. I don’t think we should be trying to plug the gaps in the marine line via Stratagems. If the army can’t hold its own with its basic rules then that’s what needs improvement, Stratagems should just be the icing on the cake. Volt, Leif Bearclaw and Panzer 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 Knights are only truly competing because of their stratagems, same with GSC, AdMech and more. They can't be understated. But yeah, the units need to be competitive in their own right. Silas7 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 Knights are strong even without Stratagems, especially if you compare them to Marine vehicles. The Stratagems is just what pushes them to the top tables against other broken stuff like Eldar shenanigans. ^^ Jacques Corbin, BLACK BLΠFLY and Volt 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halandaar Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 For me, I'd just like to see the armoury opened up to Primaris characters. It's one thing if only Primaris Marines get access to fancy new Plasma weaponry or whatever, but a Captain should be able to pick up an axe instead of a sword if he fancies it. TrawlingCleaner 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Corbin Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 I just do not think we will see the same range of wargear options for Primaris that old school marines have. That is why playing primaris feels like playing a xenos army, because all the units are very specialized. That, combined with the fact that GW seems to want character to transition into buff auras rather than be beat sticks, it is doubtful that we will see many wargear options for Primaris characters, especially for melee, as there are no dedicated melee units for primaris as yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halandaar Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 I have no problem at all with the new/old style "every model has the same weapon" unit loadouts with Primaris squads. That's fine and is largely besides the point; I'm specifically talking about characters, and the role of a Primaris Captain doesn't fundamentally change if you let him take an axe instead of a sword. Panzer, Dracos and Triszin 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Casman Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 Why do you feel that the Repulsor couldn't fill that role? Primaris are either dropped from space or from an Overlord in high altitude. Some of them would be deployed inside the Repulsors that are also dropped into the warzone from either High Orbit or from the Overlord. Once on the ground they could move to a new area using Repulsor tanks. They don't seem to be in short supply. Overlord picks up the Inceptors or other drop troops. In the only fluff we have for them it's Reivers who secured the landing zone for the Vanguard Primaris (so kinda the reverse of how it works in the game). Also I don't see why their traveling needs can't be covered by just the Overlord and Repulsors. Is the target far away use the Overlord, is the target close-ish use the Repulsor. To touch on these points briefly, I consider Repulsors to be fairly rare - like at most 1-2 per company. Now, it's entirely I'm misunderstanding the number of Repulsors out there, and it's been a while since I last read the Codex, so I could be wrong. ------------ Amusingly, I did have the realization yesterday that the gaps I see in the Primaris line could be filled by the original Space Marines. An initial orbital drop could be by drop pods, supported by Vanguard "paratroopers". A Repulsor blitzkrieg could be supported by Marines in Rhinos and Predators. Bikers, Land Speeders, and Inceptors could all perform rapid reconnaissance or outflank an enemy force. A combined chapter could remain very fluid in its approach to warfare. I think I begin to see why GW is insistent on referring to the Primaris as a supplement rather than a replacement. Anyway, I'm probably drifting off topic. I hope those of you who are dedicated to using just Primaris Space Marines get the tools you want to play the games your way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolvar Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 They need soul. And the whole "stratagem is the future" sounds as soulless as the primaris. Lately I've been off of this forum, but every time I take a peek, I only see the same. Guess I'm running out of gas for the meantime. Zebulon 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
War Angel Posted June 14, 2019 Author Share Posted June 14, 2019 What makes you say they are lacking soul? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 Cause we barely know anything about them except Space Marines +1. It's like having your old bakery with that sweet smell, wooden chairs and tables, old Baker Manuel at the counter being replaced by a clinical looking modern brand with plastic chairs and smelling like bleach. Zebulon 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Reinhard Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 My only suggestion is perhaps try visiting threads not dedicated to something you dislike. Warhead01, War Angel, Gederas and 2 others 5 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
War Angel Posted June 14, 2019 Author Share Posted June 14, 2019 You’ll probably get more information as they continue to release more about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorin Helm-splitter Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 I think the more invested people are in a certain chapter they more that they will feel that Primaris are "Soul Less" for legimate reasons. That said I think a lot of them are interested in them, they just need the following points to be addressed. 1) They don't have very much back ground yet. They're basically in the propaganda stage, plus we don't have many examples of Primaris Characters. I think most of us are drawn to our chapters not just because of the strengths but also their weaknesses so the Mary Sue stage is pretty rough. 2) The range for primaris is really basic right now, and a lot of chapters have a strong identity that is tied to certain units. For a lot players not being able to make an army that feel right for their chapter leads to rejection. It also feels harder to make your army unique, I'm not good at conversions but due to the sheer amount of marine kits my wolves looked different than other space wolf armies. My Primaris look different due to my paint scheme and some kitbashing but my intercessors will look a lot like other peoples. 3) To some of us they don't feel compatible. I have a space wolf army, and now a separate space wolf Primaris Successor I don't like mixing and matching the two armies. The differences between the scale throws me off. That said I've found my Primaris project to be a lot of fun. I like making my version of Space wolves (giving them a soul ), I know the kits will come in time, and I had reached a point where I didn't really know what to add to my first force. Darnok and MARK0SIAN 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 =][= It's fair and legitimate to have an opinion but please don't come into a thread with a provocative stance that isn't constructive to the topic in question. The intent of this thread is clearly to discuss what is missing from the Primaris model line. =][= BLACK BLΠFLY and Marshal Rohr 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted June 14, 2019 Share Posted June 14, 2019 (edited) My only suggestion is perhaps try visiting threads not dedicated to something you dislike.I dont know if that reply was for me. I understand the feeling, and can sympathize with it. @warangel, yeah that will eventually happen, that's why I'm eagerly waiting for the next codex. I think we had a tease with the Iron Father, and that by itself just gave a bit of flavour to Primaris IH. Obviously the rest of the chapters need something like that, for that bit of "soul". Seriously I need some Primaris Sword Bros. (Bit dry reply edited for politeness purpuses) Edited June 14, 2019 by Sete Dracos and War Angel 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
War Angel Posted June 14, 2019 Author Share Posted June 14, 2019 Sete, I’m pretty sure he was talking about the their comment. Your comment is fair, they need more story. Can’t wait for it myself, kinda hard to fit them perfectly into my chapter without it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now