Codex: Space Marines 2.0 speculation & discussion

[Ishagu]

I think that it might actually have something to do with the Iron Hands. Expect ways to improve the FNP and maybe even gain access to Invuls for vehicles.

 

The Scions of Guilliman make it more mobile and add a few extra storm Bolter shots but nothing of any significant note in terms of output.

Edited August 10, 2019 by Ishagu

[The Unseen]

40 Pt Thunder Hammers is a damn joke.

Instead of pricing the best melee weapon completely out of norm, maybe make the other melee weapons not so lack-lustre.

Or open up some of the master crafted weapons for HQs.

If my lieutenant or ancient could take a Master Crafted power sword, that would be awesome.

 

21 pts for a Hammer was already pushing it for non-smash captains, now they are the only thing it might be worth it on.

All that does it make it so that captains are the ONLY people you'll take it on.

 

And of course that will get ported over to the other marine factions I'm sure.

[Toxichobbit]

Or open up some of the master crafted weapons for HQs.

If my lieutenant or ancient could take a Master Crafted power sword, that would be awesome.

 

Master crafted weapons are available in both the White Scars and Ultramarines supplements for the main Chapter and any Successors. It seems to be a standard thing that will almost certainly carry across to the rest of the supplements.

 

So soon your Lt and Ancient will be able to take master crafted power swords .

 

Edit: I should say it's a piece of special issue wargear, so takes up a relic slot. And there's a stratagem that lets you give one of a small selection of the special issue wargear to a Sergeant, if that's your thing.

Edited August 10, 2019 by Toxichobbit

[Lemondish]

I think that it might actually have something to do with the Iron Hands. Expect ways to improve the FNP and maybe even gain access to Invuls for vehicles.

 

The Scions of Guilliman make it more mobile and add a few extra storm Bolter shots but nothing of any significant note in terms of output.

 

And protect 5 Aggressors who, upon delivery inside a T8, 3+ transport with Fly, will double tap for a bajillion shots. That sounds so bloody fun.

 

And while that's strong, that's kinda my point - nothing seems to explain the increase for just this unit. It's natural for some units to be slightly better in some configurations and subfactions as others - the real big issue is when EVERY unit is better under one subfaction. I don't think we really have that much anymore from what we've seen to this point, and so far any clear combination of rule interactions doesn't immediately jump out to explain why the Repulsor, and only the Repulsor, needed to go up in points. 

 

I'm sure we'll find it, but I don't think IH is really it yet. Especially since that applies to every vehicle and only this one went up in price. 

Edited August 10, 2019 by Lemondish

[Ishagu]

I'm pinning it on IH simply because certain playtesters have said they'll be clear favourites, but it remains to be seen if true.

 

I'm looking at possible Ultras lists I can make. I think the army is definitely better overall but maybe by not as much as people will expect. It needs testing of course, but the numbers of models has not grown, and the durability has not increased. The Repulsor hike in particular feels off.

 

Lets wait and see

[MajorNese]

 

And while that's strong, that's kinda my point - nothing seems to explain the increase for just this unit. It's natural for some units to be slightly better in some configurations and subfactions as others - the real big issue is when EVERY unit is better under one subfaction. I don't think we really have that much anymore from what we've seen to this point, and so far any clear combination of rule interactions doesn't immediately jump out to explain why the Repulsor, and only the Repulsor, needed to go up in points. 

 

I'm sure we'll find it, but I don't think IH is really it yet. Especially since that applies to every vehicle and only this one went up in price.

A bit hard to make out the exact number, but unless I'm mistaken the basic LR got its price reduced. Can anyone make out the exact number?

 

The other vehicles don't appear changed in points significantly while gaining buffs. Considering how underwhelming they were without CT/buffs for their considerable price tag that is hardly surprising - just compare a predator to similar vehicles from other factions (Onager comes to mind, as an AdMech player).

 

My guess would be the versatility of the Repulsor increasing with more/better primaris units to transport (UM boltergressors), while carrying considerable firepower. Like the LandRaider of previous editions, it may be including too many roles to be points efficient at either of them.

[momerathe]

I'm pinning it on IH simply because certain playtesters have said they'll be clear favourites, but it remains to be seen if true.

Well I hope so, I spent today putting together a new repulsor executioner :)

[Lemondish]

 

I'm pinning it on IH simply because certain playtesters have said they'll be clear favourites, but it remains to be seen if true.

Well I hope so, I spent today putting together a new repulsor executioner

 

 

I don't put any stock in what playtesters say given the whole Custodes thing. They aren't the final say after all. 

 

The unit is still alright, but there's now more options that kind of compete for the same job. Don't need a transport if you're already where you want to be with Incursors and Infiltrators, and you don't need a lot of AT with Hellblasters supporting Eliminators now. 

 

Still, I love the model, so I'll probably run at least one. 

Edited August 11, 2019 by Lemondish

[Triszin]

40 Pt Thunder Hammers is a damn joke.

Instead of pricing the best melee weapon completely out of norm, maybe make the other melee weapons not so lack-lustre.

Or open up some of the master crafted weapons for HQs.

If my lieutenant or ancient could take a Master Crafted power sword, that would be awesome.

 

21 pts for a Hammer was already pushing it for non-smash captains, now they are the only thing it might be worth it on.

All that does it make it so that captains are the ONLY people you'll take it on.

 

And of course that will get ported over to the other marine factions I'm sure.

I'm legit worried t hammers on wulfen are going to be 40 pts

[Lemondish]

 

40 Pt Thunder Hammers is a damn joke.

Instead of pricing the best melee weapon completely out of norm, maybe make the other melee weapons not so lack-lustre.

Or open up some of the master crafted weapons for HQs.

If my lieutenant or ancient could take a Master Crafted power sword, that would be awesome.

 

21 pts for a Hammer was already pushing it for non-smash captains, now they are the only thing it might be worth it on.

All that does it make it so that captains are the ONLY people you'll take it on.

 

And of course that will get ported over to the other marine factions I'm sure.

I'm legit worried t hammers on wulfen are going to be 40 pts

 

 

Not really worth worrying about - the 40 points are for Thunder Hammers on Characters. 

[CCE1981]

I am not worried about Thunderhammers on Characters. You won’t have “Smash-Captains” anymore.

 

Vanguard Sergeant + 1CP master crafted + librarian -Fury of Ancients, = 5x Thunder hammer attacks at 4x damage at str 10

 

Intercessor Sergeant + 1 CP Veteran +1 attack + 1CP master-crafted + librarian - fury of ancients = 6x Thunder hammer attacks at str 10 4 dmg

 

In both instances with White Scars it’s 5 damage

[Lemondish]

I am not worried about Thunderhammers on Characters. You won’t have “Smash-Captains” anymore.

 

Vanguard Sergeant + 1CP master crafted + librarian -Fury of Ancients, = 5x Thunder hammer attacks at 4x damage at str 10

 

Intercessor Sergeant + 1 CP Veteran +1 attack + 1CP master-crafted + librarian - fury of ancients = 6x Thunder hammer attacks at str 10 4 dmg

 

In both instances with White Scars it’s 5 damage

 

From turn 3 and on - that's a key distinction. 

[CCE1981]

Small, but you can have a lot more really amazing Smash Sergeants than you can have Smash Captains

[Dracos]

So you need a plan to survive and maneuver so that come T3 your army is position to smack face. It’s a new world and we need new strategies to fight at a pace that favors the Astartes.

[SkimaskMohawk]

I am not worried about Thunderhammers on Characters. You won’t have “Smash-Captains” anymore.

 

Vanguard Sergeant + 1CP master crafted + librarian -Fury of Ancients, = 5x Thunder hammer attacks at 4x damage at str 10

 

Intercessor Sergeant + 1 CP Veteran +1 attack + 1CP master-crafted + librarian - fury of ancients = 6x Thunder hammer attacks at str 10 4 dmg

 

In both instances with White Scars it’s 5 damage

You mean strength 9 right. You multiply before you add.

[CCE1981]

 

I am not worried about Thunderhammers on Characters. You won’t have “Smash-Captains” anymore.

 

Vanguard Sergeant + 1CP master crafted + librarian -Fury of Ancients, = 5x Thunder hammer attacks at 4x damage at str 10

 

Intercessor Sergeant + 1 CP Veteran +1 attack + 1CP master-crafted + librarian - fury of ancients = 6x Thunder hammer attacks at str 10 4 dmg

 

In both instances with White Scars it’s 5 damage

You mean strength 9 right. You multiply before you add.

You add to stats first. Then you multiply the weapon damage. It’s laid out in the Designer’s Commentary FAQ

[jaxom]

So you need a plan to survive and maneuver so that come T3 your army is position to smack face. It’s a new world and we need new strategies to fight at a pace that favors the Astartes.

 

It reminds me of the Idonath Deepkin from AoS; it's all about pacing and planning a turn ahead (with the obvious caveat that no plan survives contact, etc, this is for a "perfect world"). Turn 1: Devastators, Eliminators, sniper Scouts, heavy plasma Helblasters and vehicles open up while footsloggers Advance into position from cover to cover and units in transports move up to block LoS as needed. Turn 2: units disembark, all the rapid fire and assault weapons open up, deep strike in terminators for shooting with storm bolters, deep strike in assault squads or vanguard to set up charges or counter-charges for next turn. Turn 3: Charge all the things or continue to kite around with rapid fire and assault weapons (hello, Inceptors and Aggressors!).

 

Or one could take a ton of heavy weapons and stay with Devastator Doctrine as long as possible. Heavy bolters and autocannons at AP -2 and accelerator autocannons at AP -3 are, I think, not getting as much attention as they should. Plus, if one has a bolter-based chapter tactic then the heavy bolter gets another nice boost. 

[Xerxus]

I do not expect competitive SM to make use of the assault doctrine regularly. Maybe devastator to tactical as Ultramarines or just devastator as mechanized Iron Hands with FW dreads. Faction-specific stratagems, warlord traits, powers and relics might change things up and make assault viable, but the opportunity cost of not focusing on firepower will be even greater now given the nature of doctrines.

[Thanatos31]

Can someone explain again how to assign chapter tactics to known and unknown successor chapters -as well as what options there are?

 

€dit: found it in the forum. Never mind :)

Edited August 11, 2019 by Thanatos31

[CCE1981]

Can someone explain again how to assign chapter tactics to known and unknown successor chapters -as well as what options there are?

 

€dit: found it in the forum. Never mind :)

I started a thread in the Space Marines subforum titled “Custom DIY Rules” check the first page.

[mertbl]

The old hidden Thunder hammer trick.

 

 

I am not worried about Thunderhammers on Characters. You won’t have “Smash-Captains” anymore.

 

Vanguard Sergeant + 1CP master crafted + librarian -Fury of Ancients, = 5x Thunder hammer attacks at 4x damage at str 10

 

Intercessor Sergeant + 1 CP Veteran +1 attack + 1CP master-crafted + librarian - fury of ancients = 6x Thunder hammer attacks at str 10 4 dmg

 

In both instances with White Scars it’s 5 damage

Edited August 11, 2019 by mertbl

[Captain Idaho]

Dang. GW needs to FAQ all Index and previous Codex options not in the Supplements or new Codex to have the Angels of Death Key word or else any of those options take away the Combat Doctrines special rule.

 

This is potentially a big problem.

[L30n1d4s]

Or, maybe it is GW's way of slowly weaning everyone off the old Index options... i.e. you can still take them, but they don't get updates and you don't get the shiny new Codex Bonuses for your army if you choose to keep them?

[Captain Idaho]

The cynic in me agrees. But this isn't satisfactory an explanation. Just tell us no we can't take the option any more then!

 

In truth this is a bigger issue for White Scars the Ultramarine players since most of the options like Bikers are not often utilised by Ultramarine players.

 

But I did just build a cool new model that is potentially causing more problems to my army than helping...

Edited August 11, 2019 by Captain Idaho

[Marshal Reinhard]

Dunno if it's been talked about already, but have I understood it correctly that normally, a chaplain knows only one Litany?